What stops me from spending money in this game.

The Narc

Well-known member
This...

It's why they will never spend money on building a proper inventory management system.
Agreed but the have certainly missed the boat on a cosmetic closet as i play with so many women that will literally stop playing the game to check out a new outfit they pulled and are tracking all their different looks of selected cosmetic gear, there is cash troove to be made there, and i think the Empress of cosmetics Aelowny would agree too.

But again bad decision making at the table.
 

Mordenkainen

Please SSG, no more nerfs. Thank you!
Agreed but the have certainly missed the boat on a cosmetic closet as i play with so many women that will literally stop playing the game to check out a new outfit they pulled and are tracking all their different looks of selected cosmetic gear, there is cash troove to be made there, and i think the Empress of cosmetics Aelowny would agree too.

But again bad decision making at the table.

To be blunt.. the only cosmetics that are worthwhile are starting to come out... right now.

Like with the supporter coffers and all the really good cosmetics and that one shield that drops from Vecna Unleashed that has the glowing runes animation on it with the skull face.. I mean hot damn that is the $h!t we're playing the game for !
 

The Narc

Well-known member
To be blunt.. the only cosmetics that are worthwhile are starting to come out... right now.

Like with the supporter coffers and all the really good cosmetics and that one shield that drops from Vecna Unleashed that has the glowing runes animation on it with the skull face.. I mean hot damn that is the $h!t we're playing the game for !
Thats one opinion, but like i said several of the women i play with will stop the group to do a full out outift change to ask the group what they think, so i have experienced a different view of things than yours where the women love their outfits and when i mention a cosmetic closet they literally scream out “Hell Ya”

Me personal i like to wear one of my complete outfit sets from any of the eight previous hardcores(usually one of the eight different reaper cloaks, with either of the footprints and the faerie’s wings on the hound season steed), lol but that just me.
 

Mordenkainen

Please SSG, no more nerfs. Thank you!
Thats one opinion, but like i said several of the women i play with will stop the group to do a full out outift change to ask the group what they think, so i have experienced a different view of things than yours where the women love their outfits and when i mention a cosmetic closet they literally scream out “Hell Ya”

Me personal i like to wear one of my complete outfit sets from any of the eight previous hardcores(usually one of the eight different reaper cloaks, with either of the footprints and the faerie’s wings on the hound season steed), lol but that just me.

I do see this happening. We already have it on LoTRO. Why not just port over the code? I mean they share a ton of development already.
 

Kathwynn

Well-known member
From your avatar, I can guess that you are one of the 65+++ age players, and honestly i thank you for your commitment and the money that you gave this company so taht we could keep on gaming.
BUT anger management is important, don't be so hard on someone that is stating an obvious truth.
And I know how it's to be scared to loose your most loved game, I do love this game too, but I work, I have bills to pay, I don't like my hard money to be wasted in a soon to be gone project
Long live SSG
I am not being hard. Just pointing out that your Is not original or even new. It is just like all the other doom and gloom posts. Filled with the same tired things of 'this is why ddo is dying/going to die' message. When I first started playing in 2019 I ran intoi the same type of post. Predicting the end of DDO. It hasn't happened and wont any time in the foreseeable future.

If you truly think DDO is on the way out. Then maybe it is time for you to find another game. After all why play a game that you believe is not going to last. Logically at that point it would be time to move on.

Spend your money or not as you see fit. DDO will get along as it always has in spite of any doom and gloom posts.
 

Falkor

Well-known member
The cosmetics really have improved. As have character animations and appearance. I think this is a great indication of the game's continuing development. DDO isn't closing down anytime soon, yet there are critical flaws in their decision making process and that is what the community and the OP are pointing at, yet again. Hoping to have a voice because we care.

I think it's disingenuous to dismiss someone as just another 'doom and gloom' post. What we are seeing is feedback from a long time, passionate player. They've taken the time to give feedback. And instead of being acknowledged, get's mocked. Not cool.

The reason we keep seeing these types of posts is because of the underlying trust issues the players have with the staff. Stop dismissing them as trash, and recognize the opportunity. These are areas of growth and potential, avenues to retain players and attract new ones. OP is just one more player who has reached the end of their patience with bad decision making and gimmicks to screw over players for $$.

And yes, this game is technically, on the decline and will obviously close down one day. That's just life and the nature of technology and change.

This game will be struggling in ten years because there is little to no effort to on-board new players. This is a critical flaw in fiscal responsibility. And ignoring players who give feedback, and mocking them, is a sure fire way to encourage their departure and on-going diminishment of DDOs player base. but twenty years? thirty? fifty? No. This game will be gone as the player base ages and dies, and no new players are brought on.

It's not rocket science to understand someone who goes "I will spend money if you do x, y or z.' I've seen these comments for well over a decade, and SSG does nothing. As far as I am concerned, SSG doesn't want to make money, they really don't care about growing the game, and player opinions and experience are mostly meaningless.

I play this game b/c of long time friends and enjoying their company and chaos in quests and raids. but as for 'playing the game', I never read the stories, I don't chase gear, I never buy the latest content ... for me the game is a glorified hack and slash. There are little to no RPG elements in it.

As my friends have disappeared back into real life and moved onto other games, my desire to play has greatly diminished. I hit hardcore, and xp bonus weekends. That's it. I've not spent money on this game since feywild, and will only offer support if the staff demonstrates it can be trusted and stops treating the player base like a bunch of stupid idiots that can be milked for $$ with dumb gimmicks.

I think the patron coffers are insulting. I'm able to literally buy an amazing game with DLC and updated graphics for less than a cosmetic and some bank storage. Shennanigans like this guarantee my on-going lack of support. I think it stinks of desperation and lack of strategic marketing.

There are so many other ways to generate sales than ripping off the current, long term customers.

Not only did they have one insulting patron coffer, they doubled down on it. While continuously ignoring and passing on other opportunities to generate revenue. Like fixing VIP.
 
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hit_fido

Waiting for Monster Manual X...
This game is quite pricy, a bit too much for my standards, but it's a good game endeed, maybe one of the best out now
The game you called "maybe one of the best out now" and "quite pricy" in the same sentence is roughly $10 a month for a subscription. That subscription nets you immediate access to all the "f2p" and p2p "adventure pack" quests. You end up getting 6000 DDO points for a full 12 months of subscriber time which is enough to buy the quests from two older expansion packs each year (what prices move to 2495 points over time). Or you could get something like Isle of Dread, still at 3999. DDO is incredibly cheap entertainment relative to other alternatives. Depending on where you live you probably pay as much or more for a first run movie or one lunch at a mid tier fast food.

The average new subscriber could get caught up to most or all of the available quest content over the course of ~2 years, assuming they also play enough to generate some free DDO points from favor rewards, at no greater cost than the $10/mo VIP subscription. DDO Wiki reports 749 quests now - I'm not sure that is up to date but the average new subscriber is not going to exhaust all of that content that fast.

Cost isn't the issue here, neither is availability of content. The issue now, and then since the launch of DDO (a launch that was not successful by MMO metrics at the time) has been that the game's niche design didn't appeal to a broader base of game players. Most people who try DDO simply don't like the game play. DDO is a first person shooter with an underlying scaffold loosely derived from D&D rule books. It doesn't play or feel like traditional WOW-formula MMO games, which is probably why this small core of players like us really love DDO but it also decreased the appeal to persons who had a more "standard" idea of how an MMO should feel. On the other end of the spectrum, it's still not action oriented enough to appeal to the ARPG side of the market dominated by POE and Diablo. If you want a classic ARPG you don't play DDO; if you want a classic MMO you don't play DDO. What's left? A much smaller slice of the consumer market.

This game will die at some point, and the people gleefully predicting it since 2012 or even earlier will finally be able to celebrate. You should enjoy it for what it is for as long as it lasts, and if that means playing for free thats fine, but when it wraps up all that time you invested is going to be dead history as well.
 

John3000

Active member
If my DDO gaming experience is any indication, storage is where SSG makes most of its money. There's no incentive for them to "fix" that.

That's the old serpent who bites it's tail.... It's a short term narrow minded sales strategy that most companies are parting away from. For a game as old as DDO, if inventory is DDO's main source of money, then they must be in pretty bad shape, especially considering how little of it they've added over the past years. I've personally spent much more on content and expansion packs than inventory, even if I have bought up the full BTC storage options on my main toon. I refuse to do so on my ALTs. And the pain in the head it causes, even on my fully slotted main, is what is actually stopping me from buying the latest packs and goodies when they come out.

The "pay to avoid pain" technique is a lazy and losing strategy that negatively affects the companies' NPS. Marketing executives who still use that need to seriously modernize their knowledge.

People need to feel value for what they pay for. Sure it requires a little more thought and work, but the top NPS companies have understood this and their clients have become their most loyal and fervent promoters increasing their client base and also increasing ARPU.

User experience should never be money-gated, as it is the key to building a loyal customer base and driving long-term growth and profitability.

My two cents.

Cheers
 

Onyxia2016

Well-known member
I use to be like minded in my approach to the game and spending, in actual fact the value you get out of money spent is far better than you would get in the real workd.

But…

And the big BUT is that they have totally insulted me and others i have played with that enjoyed parts of the entertainment that they provided at a paid cost with no real rational as to why to take that entertainment away and some forms of that entertainment were even beneficial to new players coming to the game. The big one that comes to mind is the cargo buffs(the only people that didnt like cargo buffs were those zerg questing for past lives running pots because people wanted to go get buffs)

At the time they tried to rationale this as it made low level quests too easy, for vets low level quests are easy(even more so for past lifers), so actual this only hurt new player retention. But the real smoke and mirrors of this change had nothing to do with the low level quests in heroic, it was for the mid level quests in heroic where mobs dispel you or beholders remove your buffs(they did not mention it anywhere), this was the true place where this change had impact and all that was done for onoy two purposes: to slow player progress and to hopefully cause more death that at that level range could potentially mean buying rez cakes from the store.

Again the approach and delivery was just insulting to my intelligence and game knowledge and at the time people on the forums blindly believed what they were saying or said the cargo buffs were a waist of time, obvioously they werent and this can be proven by standing around the house p buffer on the first life start from scratch hardcore server(plenty of people coming and going from that buffer)

So yes i have comlaints(not politics as those are not allowed in forums) and until they start respected our intelligence i will continue to invoke the dont spend policy with myself and others who game around me, its their meal on the table and whatever other luxurious lifestyles that will be put at risk by their continued bad behaviour and if you dont make a stand against dont expect anything to change.

Your points a valid and understandable. I to find many of the the recent decisions on SSG's part to counter productive and a hindrance to the new player experience. I am not to your frustration …yet.

Once I am there, that will be the day I stop playing altogether and find something else to spend my time and money one.
Not advocating that you should quit playing, this is just what I would do, as me continuing would just be a reminder of the frustration at every log in.
 

Falkor

Well-known member
Tempered expectations when logging in. It's still a fun game. When you stop caring about the latest gear, latest content, bank space, being the most-uberist class on the server ... most of what drives SSG sales becomes a joke.

I've had more fun on first life toons this past year than my triple completionist main. Just using trash loot. Consequently, the majority my DDO points have gone to featherfall, fortification, swiftness and heavy fort augments. :D

And now I have a bunch of level 32 "end-game" bank toons that don't get played. :p
 
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Beast

Well-known member
The cosmetics really have improved. As have character animations and appearance. I think this is a great indication of the game's continuing development. DDO isn't closing down anytime soon, yet there are critical flaws in their decision making process and that is what the community and the OP are pointing at, yet again. Hoping to have a voice because we care.

I think it's disingenuous to dismiss someone as just another 'doom and gloom' post. What we are seeing is feedback from a long time, passionate player. They've taken the time to give feedback. And instead of being acknowledged, get's mocked. Not cool.

The reason we keep seeing these types of posts is because of the underlying trust issues the players have with the staff. Stop dismissing them as trash, and recognize the opportunity. These are areas of growth and potential, avenues to retain players and attract new ones. OP is just one more player who has reached the end of their patience with bad decision making and gimmicks to screw over players for $$.

And yes, this game is technically, on the decline and will obviously close down one day. That's just life and the nature of technology and change.

This game will be struggling in ten years because there is little to no effort to on-board new players. This is a critical flaw in fiscal responsibility. And ignoring players who give feedback, and mocking them, is a sure fire way to encourage their departure and on-going diminishment of DDOs player base. but twenty years? thirty? fifty? No. This game will be gone as the player base ages and dies, and no new players are brought on.

It's not rocket science to understand someone who goes "I will spend money if you do x, y or z.' I've seen these comments for well over a decade, and SSG does nothing. As far as I am concerned, SSG doesn't want to make money, they really don't care about growing the game, and player opinions and experience are mostly meaningless.

I play this game b/c of long time friends and enjoying their company and chaos in quests and raids. but as for 'playing the game', I never read the stories, I don't chase gear, I never buy the latest content ... for me the game is a glorified hack and slash. There are little to no RPG elements in it.

As my friends have disappeared back into real life and moved onto other games, my desire to play has greatly diminished. I hit hardcore, and xp bonus weekends. That's it. I've not spent money on this game since feywild, and will only offer support if the staff demonstrates it can be trusted and stops treating the player base like a bunch of stupid idiots that can be milked for $$ with dumb gimmicks.

I think the patron coffers are insulting. I'm able to literally buy an amazing game with DLC and updated graphics for less than a cosmetic and some bank storage. Shennanigans like this guarantee my on-going lack of support. I think it stinks of desperation and lack of strategic marketing.

There are so many other ways to generate sales than ripping off the current, long term customers.

Not only did they have one insulting patron coffer, they doubled down on it. While continuously ignoring and passing on other opportunities to generate revenue. Like fixing VIP.
WoW. just, wow, really.
As you, i consider DDo a better hack and slash (has great character skill and build customization for starters) has many downsides, and allows you to play the same character with different aproaches.

On your thought on cosmetics, yes, and this is what bugs me most.
We have, ugliest faces (i could have made an erroneous typo for giggles, but I'll avoid this time) like the PdK (yes it was one of my posts and in the old forum I raised many times the point, clearly, as always NOT answered, the only time i got an official answer was to close the thread because i called someone Paladin, tremendous, right?) we have skinless Tieflings...
Then we have, for example the collector of IoD that is awesome, we have the Vecna content, the steed, the full set of armor that is insane...
So, it seems that there are endeed talented devs inside SSG.
VIP is complete horse shoe, for many reasons, like, nothing to offer, 500 lousy point per month, they even removed the gold roll and whatever nonsense (and if by quality of service we are refering to daily rolls, well, we are deep under the horse shoe level)
They should give someone with the knowledge a marketing position, so they can work the magic to make us FEEL better, and make us spend more money.

And about reaching the point, of non being able to handle it any longer, well, yes and no, i keep DDo installed in my PC all the time, its one of the few games that has this right.

And after all this time, I still care about it, that is why I still make posts, I still try to be listened (without any success, aside from the time i got my post closed...) and i do it because I still hope that someone will stare at the monitor and start thinking.
I do it because I still think that we, as a comunity should let the developers of our game that we care and some things they are doing are not ok.
For this i thank you, for trying to see my point even if you don't agree with me fully, and this is more than normal.
I was trying to get a common ground to build something, clearly there are some kids that just wants to see other sand castles to crumble right?

No matter what you propose, no matter what you say, there will be, alyways no answer from the official channels, and insults from the... how do i call them? hoping in? what? a back rub? a smile? a wink? from whom? who listen? who reads?

There are games that practically thrive on cosmetics, there are games that have choosen other paths, this one... has chosen a bit of this, a bit of that, and made a big mess (this is clearly my humblest opinion) and have achieved nothing in every ground.


The only thing they achieved is that they are feasting and making money over frustration, they make the game frustrating and tiresome so, to avoid running that quest another time, to avoid playing that class\race you hate so much or that is borked, you pop a hundred and... boom! here's your Otto and skipperoo boxes to avoid playing the game you are paying to play, makes sense right? that's a good market economy, clearly there are worse.

And to the others that are saying go play another game, well I do, sometimes, but sometimes i like to get back here and I see all the mistakes are keep on going and I can't stand still watching and I make a thread, getting all the hate I can get (have a big, fat laugh) and keep on doing the same things I was earlier.
You will never see me post in other games forums, because I don't give a shoe about other games.
 

Mordenkainen

Please SSG, no more nerfs. Thank you!
The cosmetics REALLY came a LOOONG WAY.

I wish SSG would really focus on cosmetics, including building a LoTRO style cosmetics "wardrobe" where you can quickly swap pre-built outfits in and out and have them inserted into the wardrobe itself so it doesn't take up space in the character inventory.

Look how far cosmetics have come in this game!

Pre-2011 Cosmetic Shield.

8alnzd.jpg


VS.

Current Modern Shield (Note the runes are animated and the skull face glows/effect like burning "fire")


8alobf.jpg


I mean come on... why can't we get more of the above !!

8alpdj.gif
 

seph1roth5

Well-known member
Easy(ish) to get tp IF you already have most of the content. I've been playing DDO for ~12 years, and it seems very unfriendly to newbies still. I see f2p people in discord all the time and it just sounds awful trying to level, find gear, or party. The free quest codes were a great addition, but once a year or 2 and no idea if they're going to continue are, again, very bad for newbies. I think new people would be far more likely to shell out xpac $$ if they weren't struggling to just play the game already.
 

Hoccleve

Active member
I love the game and have played it for years, though never very seriously. I've mostly spent points earned through play, though used a bit of real cash now and again. There is plenty to play always, and if you aren't mad keen to have the latest pack / expansion when it comes out, and are willing to wait a bit, use discounts etc it's all pretty economical. As well as content and classes (back before most of them were free), I've bought tomes of learning and some storage. I did run a couple of 5,000 favour lives, but that is a really long road, and so eventually splashed out on a +8 supreme. About the only consumable I have bought is augment tools.

Funnily enough, the thing that would probably most likely make me spend more points / cash would be a quicker and less buggy DDO store. Don't know if it is just me, but I find it the slowest and most annoying thing in the game. The visual update was OK, but seemed if anything to make the functionality worse.
 

Coffey

Well-known member
This game will be struggling in ten years because there is little to no effort to on-board new players. This is a critical flaw in fiscal responsibility. And ignoring players who give feedback, and mocking them, is a sure fire way to encourage their departure and on-going diminishment of DDOs player base. but twenty years? thirty? fifty? No. This game will be gone as the player base ages and dies, and no new players are brought on.
Easy(ish) to get tp IF you already have most of the content. I've been playing DDO for ~12 years, and it seems very unfriendly to newbies still. I see f2p people in discord all the time and it just sounds awful trying to level, find gear, or party. The free quest codes were a great addition, but once a year or 2 and no idea if they're going to continue are, again, very bad for newbies. I think new people would be far more likely to shell out xpac $$ if they weren't struggling to just play the game already.
What Is the reason why there has been no effort made to help onboard new players?

Uhm, let me try to elaborate your statement.

Why there are so many threads like this one?
Maybe because we care?
Maybe because we want to let the developer know we care and we are aware and worried for the health of our game?
Or maybe we are just a bunch of kids having fun, watching all burning down to ashes...

The game is borked and niche?
Well it is niche, as is Ultima Online, Eve, Star wars the old Republic, Rift, Wildstar (rip), Age of Conan, Dark Age of Camelot, Secret World... heck even WoW is niche, because Mmo are all niche nowdays, the complete genre is niche by definition.
Even so, every company does it's best to get new players, to make the game feel alive, to captivate new audience.
This game as the same appeal to new players than having to go to a postal office to pay taxes in Italy, and trust me, unless you live here, you don't know what is like.
About your statement on the borked game, you are dead wrong my kind sir, we have a very talented developer (Tonquin) that has fixed more bugs in the few months than others have in years) so it's a matter of will.
So there is endeed hope for this game, the simple fact that you don't care about the state of the game or simply you like it this way (and trust me, it won't be forever if they continue down this path) is not my concern
I want to see this game expand and change with the times too. As the game grows in levels and difficulty options (reaper difficulty, character power, player knowledge and abilities) it needs more players to fill LFMs because there is a broader range of players that cant play together. Every direction this game has taken has caused further division in the player base.

So it is very evident that DDO has needed a larger player base but nothing has been done to address that and make it a priority. With a larger player base comes more revenue and lower pricing for all players. Server performance seems to indicate that the game can not handle a larger player base though.

It is not as simple as taking a side without all the facts. So there is no reason to demean another person to make a point because they didnt create this mess and they are probably disappointed how things have turned out too. It is like taking sides in a war but not understanding that the civilians on both sides are always innocent.

One thing i have learned in this community is that a lot of people care about this game and its future but feel like they are on a small rudderless ship that has an overcast sky while trying to navigate. So discussions like this seem to fall on covered ears after all the effort made by the community over the years to address this issue in game and on the forums. It is simply disappointment you are reacting to from people who have seen it all before.

I will agree with you that the hope is strong in the DDO community.
 

Mordenkainen

Please SSG, no more nerfs. Thank you!
What Is the reason why there has been no effort made to help onboard new players?


I want to see this game expand and change with the times too. As the game grows in levels and difficulty options (reaper difficulty, character power, player knowledge and abilities) it needs more players to fill LFMs because there is a broader range of players that cant play together. Every direction this game has taken has caused further division in the player base.

So it is very evident that DDO has needed a larger player base but nothing has been done to address that and make it a priority. With a larger player base comes more revenue and lower pricing for all players. Server performance seems to indicate that the game can not handle a larger player base though.

It is not as simple as taking a side without all the facts. So there is no reason to demean another person to make a point because they didnt create this mess and they are probably disappointed how things have turned out too. It is like taking sides in a war but not understanding that the civilians on both sides are always innocent.

One thing i have learned in this community is that a lot of people care about this game and its future but feel like they are on a small rudderless ship that has an overcast sky while trying to navigate. So discussions like this seem to fall on covered ears after all the effort made by the community over the years to address this issue in game and on the forums. It is simply disappointment you are reacting to from people who have seen it all before.

I will agree with you that the hope is strong in the DDO community.

Game is too freakin old to be what you're asking it to be.

Now if they made DDO 2... then yes. I think in today's climate it'll do extremely well.
 

Sylla

Well-known member
why should I give money to a game that probably will not last more than 2 years from now?
I very much disagree with some pricing policies SSG make (shared/bank space) and they deserve criticism for it.

However, to address your question... Have you been to Cinema lately? Or went out for a dinner? Ordered food or perhaps an Uber?

Just today, I've paid 50€ for a great dinner for two. Lasted about an hour. No regrets.

So is it worth to buy stuff for game that might not be around forever? Maybe year, maybe two or five? Of course it does.

When you purchase a game on steam, let's say you play it for 100 hours. And probably never again. Maybe you will turn in on for an hour or two or 20, 10 years from now. Is it better investment than MMO? Maybe, maybe not. But let's not act as if "owning it" is really a benefit when you actually never play it once it's done.
 

Mordenkainen

Please SSG, no more nerfs. Thank you!
Oh don't get me wrong. This game will outlast most MMOs that came out just last year and then some.

It has an incredibly loyal playerbase that kinda see's the game more as a pub or bar rather than an MMO.
 
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