Will DDO increase overall difficulty?
- Thread starter Airmaiden
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Drunken.dx
Well-known member
Worst mob i ever fought in ddo was drow priestess psionic thrall if you miss one mob before fighting her and she sacrifices it.
I'd rather solo heroic shroud another 20 times than experience that again
Sarlona Raiding
Well-known member
To some extent it's on us as players to accept the challenges that are already there.
For example I don't think pushing skulls on the most recent raids is something mastered by many players and there are many people that run R10s routinely that rarely to never run a newer raid above R1. This requires the greatest challenge of all - getting 12 people to work together to accomplish something cool as a team vs. efficient loot farming. I haven't completed the Illithid quests on R10, but seems like that would be a challenge and require some solid coordination.
There will be level/CR increases for the newer content I assume along with small increases to stats on gear. If this isn't enough I would suggest looking at tuning R7-R10 for more challenge without changing lower difficulties as my experience with random groups is that many people still struggle even at lower skulls.
I would err on the side of not making lower difficulties too much for the majority of the player base that don't find the game too easy.
For example I don't think pushing skulls on the most recent raids is something mastered by many players and there are many people that run R10s routinely that rarely to never run a newer raid above R1. This requires the greatest challenge of all - getting 12 people to work together to accomplish something cool as a team vs. efficient loot farming. I haven't completed the Illithid quests on R10, but seems like that would be a challenge and require some solid coordination.
There will be level/CR increases for the newer content I assume along with small increases to stats on gear. If this isn't enough I would suggest looking at tuning R7-R10 for more challenge without changing lower difficulties as my experience with random groups is that many people still struggle even at lower skulls.
I would err on the side of not making lower difficulties too much for the majority of the player base that don't find the game too easy.
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So much this. Don't make the game too difficult for new players.
As is, a half way decent first life character can contribute on R1. They don't need to be able to solo it, as long as they can aid a party in some form or fashion.
TedSandyman
Well-known member
Power creep = bored players.
Continually increasing the power of players will always end in bored people at end game. R10 was supposed to be the solution to this. There is no solution to bored players. Giving them what they want doesn't help because they will either complain that the gear isn't worth it, and not play the content. Or they will zerg the dungeons until they get all the shiny new overpowered gear, and then start complaining about being bored again. Catering to these people is a no win situation. These people wont be happy, ever. They will eventually be sitting at level 70 R30 saying "I'm bored."
The game isn't the problem. Players who feel like they need to dominate the game to get any kind of enjoyment is the problem. It is psychological. This is an awesome game. It is more awesome at low levels with weaker characters. That is when the rules of D&D sort of still have some meaning. At end game its all about a few builds that can kill everything in the blink of an eye with no real save. All those fancy rules about attacking and hitting make no sense when you get that far away from a standard d20 die roll. Playing DDO with a low level weak character is A LOT like playing BG3. Playing at end game is about as far away from real D&D as you can get. If you are playing BG3 and thinking "This is what a D&D game should be. This is what DDO should be like." then you need to know that DDO HAS all of that. It is all here, it is just buried under so much excessive power that it is unrecognizable.
If you have a hard time understanding why everyone seems to abandon your server during hardcore, it is because that is when the true nature of DDO being a real D&D game comes out. Getting back to those basics is refreshing and fun. If you are bored at end game and refuse to play hardcore, then you are really missing what a lot of us love about this game. You are probably more focused on gaining power than enjoying DDO for what it is.
This is an awesome game, and if you don't gobble up every piece of it like a spoiled child devouring a birthday cake with both hands, it can be very enjoyable to you too. And if you cannot ever seem to be happy playing the game, because you are always bored with the game, maybe, and I don't say this lightly because we need all the players we can get, just maybe this game isn't for you. Please stop trying to make DDO just like WOW. We don't need 70 levels. We don't need play through once and you're done. DDO has always been about the TR, the hamster wheel, if you like. And that is exactly why I personally love the game. If you want to ruin this game, then make it just like WOW. That seems to be what a majority of the poeple who post on the forum want. I hope it isn't what a majority of the remaining player base wants.
And before you get too upset about my personal preferences, know that I don't care how anyone plays this game. To each their own. Its the complaining and calling for difficulty increases that bothers me. If you get bored, it is your own fault. Go play wow and complain on their forums. Let the rest of us get back to a real game.
Continually increasing the power of players will always end in bored people at end game. R10 was supposed to be the solution to this. There is no solution to bored players. Giving them what they want doesn't help because they will either complain that the gear isn't worth it, and not play the content. Or they will zerg the dungeons until they get all the shiny new overpowered gear, and then start complaining about being bored again. Catering to these people is a no win situation. These people wont be happy, ever. They will eventually be sitting at level 70 R30 saying "I'm bored."
The game isn't the problem. Players who feel like they need to dominate the game to get any kind of enjoyment is the problem. It is psychological. This is an awesome game. It is more awesome at low levels with weaker characters. That is when the rules of D&D sort of still have some meaning. At end game its all about a few builds that can kill everything in the blink of an eye with no real save. All those fancy rules about attacking and hitting make no sense when you get that far away from a standard d20 die roll. Playing DDO with a low level weak character is A LOT like playing BG3. Playing at end game is about as far away from real D&D as you can get. If you are playing BG3 and thinking "This is what a D&D game should be. This is what DDO should be like." then you need to know that DDO HAS all of that. It is all here, it is just buried under so much excessive power that it is unrecognizable.
If you have a hard time understanding why everyone seems to abandon your server during hardcore, it is because that is when the true nature of DDO being a real D&D game comes out. Getting back to those basics is refreshing and fun. If you are bored at end game and refuse to play hardcore, then you are really missing what a lot of us love about this game. You are probably more focused on gaining power than enjoying DDO for what it is.
This is an awesome game, and if you don't gobble up every piece of it like a spoiled child devouring a birthday cake with both hands, it can be very enjoyable to you too. And if you cannot ever seem to be happy playing the game, because you are always bored with the game, maybe, and I don't say this lightly because we need all the players we can get, just maybe this game isn't for you. Please stop trying to make DDO just like WOW. We don't need 70 levels. We don't need play through once and you're done. DDO has always been about the TR, the hamster wheel, if you like. And that is exactly why I personally love the game. If you want to ruin this game, then make it just like WOW. That seems to be what a majority of the poeple who post on the forum want. I hope it isn't what a majority of the remaining player base wants.
And before you get too upset about my personal preferences, know that I don't care how anyone plays this game. To each their own. Its the complaining and calling for difficulty increases that bothers me. If you get bored, it is your own fault. Go play wow and complain on their forums. Let the rest of us get back to a real game.
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Titus Ovid
Mover and Shaker
I would really like to know some statistics about what difficulties people are playing. And it would need to include what they do regularly for convenience and what is possible.
If this would even include solo and group play it would blow my mind.
Cheers,
Titus
If this would even include solo and group play it would blow my mind.
Cheers,
Titus
JustHavingFunBro
Well-known member
Who is this we? Because I suspect very few of the actual players are speed wobbling through R10s. You guys need to stop asking for the game to be nerfed, just because you are bored. That is a you problem. Not a we problem.
PraetorPlato
Well-known member
I think a reasonable balance standard is that ~4 well-built (key past lives for their role, excellent gear, very good builds, etc. 36+ reaper points) but not ubercomp/perfect everything characters should have reasonably challenging questing content available in-game. The extreme challenge dungeons are a pretty nice balance point for this. Other r10 sagas aren't really, right now—they can be zerged by that party comfortably.
I agree with everything in this post. If the vast majority find something difficult, but you dont, its very unlikely you will get time and effort to make the game harder just for you.
At some point the individual needs to take responsibility for how they play the game and how they seek enjoyment.
That said, given how many different kinds of past-lives there are now, it would be great to re-visit XP. Though I dare say there are still a lot of people who years ago found interesting ways to get access to 20% XP pots and to 50% XP pots who may make SSG reluctant to do much with XP levels.
JustHavingFunBro
Well-known member
I think some of you are extremely jaded. Perhaps, because you only group with certain people. If you think most of us are running with guildies to speed run r4+ content you are not playing the game that we do.
In fact, its extremely rare to even see Legendary PUGs, and I am on the 2nd most populated server. As an up and coming player I find this a bit of a challenge to catch up to you r10 speed runners.
PraetorPlato
Well-known member
Nah, I normally pug r10s on Argo. There's usually 1 or 2 r10 pug groups up at high times, and solid low-life characters can make duoing r10 possible and doing it with a group of 4 comfortable to easy.
I run with a group of 4 where 2 have pretty much every past-life you can get (and maybe 70 Reaper points), one has triple class completionist and many other lives (and maybe 50 Reaper points), and I am 8 lives from triple class completionist (with maybe 35 or 36 Reaper points). The gear is mostly as good as you can get for Heroic, but Heroic gear is mostly used during Epic.
We run R1 and mostly its easy but occasionally there are deaths. I cant imagine how long we would take to do R10, but there would be a LOT of deaths. We are not min-maxing our builds but I dont think that can be the only thing holding us back from running R10.
I'd love to see videos of average lives, well geared people steamrolling any and all R10s.
PraetorPlato
Well-known member
ah, don't run heroic high skulls. I mean at cap. That's the difference-cap gear is ludicrously stronger than heroic gear.
JustHavingFunBro
Well-known member
Would love to see this group of 4 players with 40 reaper points steamrolling legendary r10.
No, you mean players who have been playing for years, don't you? For some reason you want to make r1s harder for them. Instead of SSG making new content to challenge you.
Ah okay. So if you have Legendary gear then you can run Legendary dungeons at R10 with a reasonable group?
I think this makes sense as Ive done a lot of mid-range R Legendary dungeons with average gear and it wasnt horrible.
PraetorPlato
Well-known member
Yeah, generally speaking, well-optimized characters with well-designed Legendary gear can run legendary r10 reasonably.
PraetorPlato
Well-known member
Nah, I want more extreme challenge content! I don't think most r10 pugs video, bc they're not super interesting. I know Tolsimar on Argo streams r10s somewhat regularly with not-full pugs.
JustHavingFunBro
Well-known member
Here'a great idea. If r10 is too easy then make r10 harder. Easy peasey.
JustHavingFunBro
Well-known member
OK, but that is not what the OP said.