Wizard: Eldritch Knight seems too good

[albertjr]

i miss epic defensive fighting, because i don't like tier 5 ek and hate the absolute nerf to death knight builds. they lost 20% hp modifier, and are forced to choose if they want third aura and to buff their shroud or hp and one of the slowest cleaves.

 

[PraetorPlato]

Magma doesn't scale on SP. If it did, every caster would have 20k+ dps from it, and no one would complain. I think it was blightcaster they nerfed it for, because you could previously just put a stack of earthquakes under any raid boss and solo it.

Mm. You should double check it with raid armor or demon engine. The raid weapons don’t proc on spells, but the demon engine proc very much procs on spells and scales when procced by a spell (so does RDA). It’s the same behavior as e.g. meltfang.Tested relatively recently, certainly post Blightcaster need.

 

[DBZ]

More useless raid weapons awesome

 

[LurkingVeteran]

The problem is not the spells, the wizard shares the same spells as the sorcerer. The problem is that the devs have designed all the options for specialists with immunity bypass: gear, EDs, etc. I have explained it many times, I think it is redundant to explain it one more time.

The wizard doesn't need a big upgrade in his enhancements. It doesn't need a bypass. But wizard needs the devs to start designing options for this class and not just A+ casters.

Of course, they don't design for general casters, but the wizard has eaten all the nerfs designed for A+ casters...

By specialist I assume you are comparing to top of the line specialist DPS with immunity removal like Sorc? I didn't say Wizard wasn't behind Sorc in DPS, I said its DPS was not particularly bad compared to other casters . There is a difference in nuance there.

I don't know how far behind you are now in maxing one spell power vs. the two+ (or ideally universal) that Wizard needs, but people tend to underestimate how much the crit and SP on Master of Knowledge actually contributes L24+.

The problem is that like Sorc you have to sacrifice other things (like DC) to get there. If Wizards could be good generalists and only say 20% worse nukers than Sorcs, I think it would be fine.

 

[Lazuli]

No, wizards are not just 20% worse nukers than sorcs, they have much less dps. Don't make estimates without having played both classes extensively. On the other hand, having a sorc and druid caster, I will tell you that the "sacrifice" in DC that these classes make is minimal.

The problem of having to diversify spellpowers due to not being able to focus on an element like bypass casters and the lack of suitable mantles for non-specialist casters is not a minor thing. It makes a big difference in dps. It doesn't help that the force itemization is terrible (coupled with the existence of few useful force spells, two of which involve spending two epic feats and a specific tier 5 ED), nor that spell lore has almost no items in the cap and also with inexcusably low values.

This game has simply focused too much on standardizing everything. It was much better when the devs made items by hand instead of automated ones with a template, the old ones thought about the needs of the different classes instead of putting them all in the same drawer.

The very template of the epic levels is wrong. In pnp, in epics wizards receive extra feats that sorcs do not receive to be able to more easily buy slots for epic spells (the Improved Spell Capacity feat) or more DC or improvised metamagic. They should have scaled the class abilities (feats, turnings, smites, etc) at epic, instead of commoner levels, because then their EDs fail miserably to scale the characteristics of many classes. As the EDs have designed, they benefit some classes more than others. This looks very clear in the case of specialist casters vs generalist casters, although it also happens with some weapon-using classes. But speaking of wizards specifically, where is the mantle adapted to a playsyle that requires the use of an entire spellbook and not just one element? Where are the extra epic spells that the wizard should have vs the sorc, since the point of the class is to gain more versatility vs the other? Please, they even hijacked weird, which should be a level 9 spell, to put it in an ED. Take away the wizard's vertality to give to everyone, why not.

Although for me, the most bleeding point is the equipment. And all these problems have been created by SSG by completely changing the way they design for the game vs. the way the old designers had.

Master of Knowledge is a very poorly implemented feat. It should proc from the wizard's own spells. Proc of two SLAs that are terrible in epics (and they cost 6 APs) is laughable, really. And if you're not using them continuously, the stacks disappear. It is a cumbersome and absurd mechanic.

 

[Tilomere]

Mm. You should double check it with raid armor or demon engine. The raid weapons don’t proc on spells, but the demon engine proc very much procs on spells and scales when procced by a spell (so does RDA). It’s the same behavior as e.g. meltfang.Tested relatively recently, certainly post Blightcaster need.

Nimbus of light, 5 stacks, 500 damage, 1k crit, 400+ fire spell power. Red Dragon Armor. Certainly not build defining. I would only slot it on a ranged due to high multishot.

 

[PraetorPlato]

Nimbus of light, 5 stacks, 500 damage, 1k crit, 400+ fire spell power. Red Dragon Armor. Certainly not build defining. I would only slot it on a ranged due to high multishot.

it’s def scaling with something, because it doesn’t crit on non-spells (and those numbers are too high for the raw amount). I wonder what’s going on-last time I was testing I was getting big damage out of it, but I was testing on a fire sorc with delayed blast fireball. Seemed to be on the order of 300-500 base damage fully stacked, scaling with full spellpower and crit. I’ll test more next Lam.

Current guess is that it only scales on spellpower if proc’d by a fire spell, bc your numbers match with crit but no SP scaling, and I was def getting SP scaling. (Or it’s just been ninja changed, again)

 

[EinarMal]

If anyone is interested in pushing DPS on Wizard, I've done many lives and solo R4+ on Wizard. Tiefling is an option but I like this DG setup better. Without strip Acid is by far the best element IMO.

Gear:
Dino (20/10/5 Acid,+2 Sacred,Walking)
Legendary Dusk Lenses
Dino (Voidscale,Voidfang,+5 Lightning,Resistance,Walking)
Legendary Kopru Bracers (+20 Force, Dread)
Bound Elemental Ring of Acid (Chained)
Bound Elemental Ring of Frost (Chained)
Osfield's Lightning Boots (Dread)
Dino Artifact (Int +15, 10/5 Force,Ghostly,Dread)
Legendary Walking Ancestor's Shroud (Walking)
Legendary Black Satin Waist
Epic Gem of Many Facets (Void Lore,Lore,Ins. Intelligence,Elders)
Elder's Focus (Elders)
Attuned Dino Weapon (Shadowscale, Meltfang, Brightclaw, Flamehorn, Dread)
Legendary Powder-Packed Barrel (Dread)

This packs in Walking, Dread, Chained elements, and Elders.

With this setup you can get standing ~900-1000 spell power across all elements pre-meta.

The critical chance is going to be around 50-65% depending on the elements but you cover Acid, Lightning, Sonic, Cold, Fire, Force, Fire, Void

The biggest downside is critical damage, the range is 40-100, but you can only really choose 2 to really push. Acid is the main one, the other chosen here is Force. That can vary on preference. Acid/Force can get up to 80-100 range, the other elements are going to be around 40-50. You can also go Acid/Fire.

(DPS Setup)
Enhancements (98)
Archmage 41
Racial 17
Palemaster 23
Feydark 17

Epic Destiny DC (75)
Draconic 35
Primal 26
Exalted Angel 14

I would only go Draconic if you take Ruin feats, otherwise I like Fatesinger as the main tree.

Feats: (7 + 5WB)
1-Quicken
1-(WB) Maximize
3-Arcane Initiate
5-(WB) Empower
6-Extend
9-SF Conjuration
10-(WB) SF Illusion
12-Insightful Reflexes
15-(WB) SF Necromancy
15-GSF Necromancy
18-GSF Illusion
20-(WB) Heighten
21-Epic SF Necromancy
22-Epic Spellpower Acid
24-Embolden
25-Epic Spell Power Force
27-Ruin
28-Epic Spell Power Electric
30-Scion of Feywild
30-Greater Ruin
31-Spell Specialty Enchantment

All in all it is possible to get what I would consider solid spell DPS from a Wizard, but it takes very careful gear planning and a lot of work compared to a single element caster!

 

[PraetorPlato]

it’s def scaling with something, because it doesn’t crit on non-spells (and those numbers are too high for the raw amount). I wonder what’s going on-last time I was testing I was getting big damage out of it, but I was testing on a fire sorc with delayed blast fireball. Seemed to be on the order of 300-500 base damage fully stacked, scaling with full spellpower and crit. I’ll test more next Lam.

Current guess is that it only scales on spellpower if proc’d by a fire spell, bc your numbers match with crit but no SP scaling, and I was def getting SP scaling. (Or it’s just been ninja changed, again)

Update: still scaling with both fire SP and crit on a fire achy.

 

[Tilomere]

Which source do you have? I was using red dragon armor and it didn't scale on fire spell power for inflict, light spells, or draconic fire abilities.

Maybe they deactivated older sources to sell Vecna runearm.

 

[PraetorPlato]

Which source do you have? I was using red dragon armor and it didn't scale on fire spell power for inflict, light spells, or draconic fire abilities.

Maybe they deactivated older sources to sell Vecna runearm.

also RDA. Not sure exactly what's going on, TBH—will try and pin it down next Lam.

 

[Tilomere]

Edit:
Oh, now I really understand dps casting. That means the highest dps caster rotation is actually (....) putting top end casting higher than melee dps.