You're going to take this VIPLP and you're going to like it.

[Kobay]

Free stuff is free & I think it is just nitpicks about the usefulness of the choices, however the main discourse is the quite low effort implementation.

As in:
- They put effort and resource into a brand new VIP menu window, but you can't claim eligible rewards from it
- The VIP window has a learn about VIP button that goes to a store error page (or specials if already VIP)
- The VIP claim NPC doesn't have a map marker, so he's difficult to find
- The icon for VIP claim being ready has no instructions for how to claim it
- The reward track is confusingly worded around when things become available

Don't get me wrong though. I shill this game hard. I love it to bits. The music, 99% of the content, the layers upon layers of complex character building, the relative balance of so many different permutations of character options. It's brilliant.

But the leadership who repeatedly green-lights poorly thought out ideas & rush releases untested changes... gawd damn I wish SSG would kick them in the arse to do better or obtain different producers/management, because it always seems to be the same problems.

Nailed it.

 

[DDO Gaming]

Why are you, in particular, against people expressing their views about this? You're not coming to engage with the topic people are discussing, you're literally just criticizing people for their opinion - unnecessarily.

Why don't you say "no thanks, bye" and choose not to comment when you see an opinion you don't agree with?

You're absolutely right and I should...except the whining has been ongoing for weeks and the arguments haven;t changed in nature hence "if you don;t like chained VIP simply ignore the offering"

 

[Cheeps]

I was VIP the first two years I started playing, back in 2010.

Then I said why bother, dropped VIP and purchased all the packs and races/classes I wanted.

I see no real value to going back to VIP for me.

But, it's nice the new folk to get better value for VIP than we had in 2010.

 

[DDO Gaming]

I was VIP the first two years I started playing, back in 2010.

Then I said why bother, dropped VIP and purchased all the packs and races/classes I wanted.

I see no real value to going back to VIP for me.

But, it's nice the new folk to get better value for VIP than we had in 2010.

My original understanding was that VIP gave you a glimpse of [almost] everything DDO has to offer, hence after the first time I VIPed shared bank storage was the first item on my "I need this".

Technically that hasn;t actually changed...

 

[cdbd3rd]

Wait wait... Donuts?

I got cheateded, there was no donutses when I voted! I .... missed out.

 

[cdbd3rd]

Unless you are a shareholder in SSG and/or you invested $$$$$ in gaming development DDO is NOT your apple...or anything else (folks like you will typically spend $5 on a product then scream like they own the entire business) . You are merely an interested potential customer so kindly behave like an interested potential customer.

If you don;t like the apple, orange, or no.45 diaper being offered then you simply walk away to the next aisle. What you don;t do is throw a no45 style hissyfit

Why DD....

 

[Jummby]

You like that, don't ya?
I do not like it and I do not want it. Lots of people do not want it. So many of us have been saying this for so long, for over a year considering its prior version and its been forced on us anyway. There are a large number of suggestions from a wide variety of players all up and down both sides of the issues where little tweaks or even complete overhauls or replacements could be made and it appears that none of that was consulted. It feels bad that in a game that relies on player support and that acknowledges issues with the pre-existing vip program and player dissatisfaction - that those very same players were largely ignored during development. I have to assume this is the case because 1) the staff has gone radio silent, 2) I don't see a single thing on the VIPLP that players were scrambling about asking for and 3) all the things that players actually were asking for are absent. Some of us players can probably pick through this pile of stuff and say "Oh this one here, this one isn't too bad. This can be good eventually. I can envision a scenario where maybe I can benefit from this one thing, etc" That is not what the purpose was supposed to be nor was that the expectation. We were led to believe we were getting a robust replacement or enhanced VIP system and we did not. At the end of the day, what we got was simply what they calculated was financially okay for them to give us while meeting all the metrics needed to try to lock people into a cycle of login checks and engagement. This is why player ideas weren't consulted, because it is not a program to address player needs, but to drive financial support.

Swear to me.
With your money and your time. I don't have a problem with financial support. Most people here do not. We want to support continual development of a game that we enjoy. I don't think its appropriate to say we need to be "rewarded" for doing so...but we do need to be "valued" for doing so. If I am already buying your yearly/bi-yearly expansions and I decide that I am going to further support you on a regular, monthly basis then I can, I think, reasonably expect that as a trade I get in return improvements that make my experience in your game smoother. The, it seems, forbidden words: Quality of Life. Decades in and its all people have ever wanted, its what people will continue to want and it is perpetually at the forefront of what people will say they want. Most of every player suggestion list you can find are full of qol suggestions. SSG you know this is what people want, you know this is what people will be satisfied spending their real world dollars for. So then, where is the disconnect? It is not a binary thing where one side has to lose for the other side to win. Trust me, there is a scenario where SSG can implement a program that players will be happy to pay monthly for but would ALSO maintain a steady revenue stream for the company and increase engagement. A scenario where mutual loyalty is established.

Eat it.
We didn't get that and our voice does in fact not matter. Why should I or anyone think it does? Ever since its announcement we have been here on the forums, daily, in heated back and forth debates about the merits and value of this and that part of the VIPLP. Giving feedback, giving suggestions, giving thanks where we think the program hits the mark and criticisms where we think it falls short. Hot debates, yes, because many like myself are very, very invested into this game currently and are likewise concerned and invested in what the future of this game will look like. We talk among ourselves and sometimes we even come to a consensus on an issue or two but..
Where is the staff engagement?
This is what does it for me and I suspect that this is what does it for many players. Sure you can unilaterally create this program, ignoring player suggestions. You can force it onto players on X date while allowing little to no opportunity for change. But you should not be able to do so without accountability to the community whom you are simultaneously asking for regular support. That is not right. Defend the program; comment on why each months inclusion was made and thought processes that led to each value assessment. Describe the detrimental loss of value to prior vip with the free code giveaways and where in the VIPLP this value is recovered. Take the staffer who is most familiar with the new program or assign someone and give them the talking points to come here and engage with players on the points we raise. I as a player want to know why "X" is in fact good. We can talk about it among ourselves as we have been, but is it unreasonable to expect the people implementing this to go over the aspects of this program in a detailed manner? Or to do a meaningful Q and A with relevant persons answering player questions about it. Or to at least come on the forums and direct reply to player concerns about the program. RADIO SILENCE.

Decisions.
It seems radio silence was a collective decision after all. Don't talk about it, don't address it, don't add fuel to the fire and players will eventually accept it begrudgingly and we can all move forward to the next thing. Okay, yes that will probably happen. However, this is not behavior indicative of the team I thought I was supporting all these years but sure, its effective. People have short memories. But decisions lead to other decisions. Today I logged on to advance my obliss steps and seeing that my vip had expired on both my accounts, I decided not to renew either. That was my decision. I don't not love the game after this and I do want to help its further development, but that contrasts heavily with my desire to not want to support this program as it currently is in particular. I would prefer the option to separate my support for the overall game from my support from this one aspect of the game but SSG has successfully tied the two together. Inextricably tied - with a monthly, convoluted check-in where it did not exist prior to boot. I have decided that the vip benefits -both prior and new- do not outweigh my disdain for the way this was handled. Does SSG understand? I could have accepted this if only they had the courage to defend their actions and ideas. I would have appreciated the honesty and if it in fact all came down to just numbers, then I would've appreciated the transparency. But I cannot give you my money in this way.

I cannot bitterly swipe my card or have it auto-renewed; bitterly track down and check-in with my in-game CO; bitterly collect a "reward" I didn't want in the first place but would feel obligated to take because I'm backed into a corner and its either that or nothing; bitterly debate with myself whether the over priced month to month subscription is better for me than the objectively better priced 3-6-12 month subscription when the latter despite its great financial investment in the game does not in fact guarantee that I will comfortably get the 'rewards' that SSG told me I am due; bitterly come to terms with the reality that If I don't meet this arbitrary check-in for a month, that while I will still get that months reward the next month (or the next month that I subscribe/am subscribed), the month that I did not collect is in essence a month that I paid irl money for and did not get a reward for. Yes, the track resumes the next time I am subscribed and the reward is gained the next month I am subscribed but those two things require an additional irl subscription of at least one more month to pick that back up meaning I simply lose out on the additional reward for the month I did not collect. I am not behind on the track, I get the reward eventually, but a month not collected still equals a month I paid and got nothing. Therefore, bitterly recalling every single forum post that pointed this out, that asked for an auto-grant, that pleaded for a reward cache, that begged for some way to bank or retrieve missed albeit paid for rewards. To bitterly remember that not only were these suggestions ignored they were not even deemed worthy to respond to.

Engage this.
SSG did not engage with us on the creation or implementation of the VIPLP so I am not going to engage with said program. Ordinarily an easy decision for a man who works 14/hrs a day; but fortunately/unfortunately I am currently in a position to engage more than ever. I am stuck at home on medical leave for what was supposed to be a few weeks, for what turned into 2 months, for what will now be into at least mid-summer. With all this time at my disposal, I have been able to follow these forums like never before; to potentially invest hours into this game like never before. DDO right now could be a meaningful escape from irl issues and a bright spot for the next bit while irl things pan out. But this has left such a bad taste in my mouth. At a critical time where I am accessing in my life where valuable time is and isn't spent, I would like to take comfort in knowing that I'm able to log onto one of my favorite games and pass the time in a peaceful, fun manner. For the most part I still can. But, I will now always be thinking about what could have been. I am going to notice when I don't have that vip movement speed increase; I am going to notice when I don't have that vip xp boost; I am going to actively remember, as a result, why I am not supporting the vip program anymore.

Each time that I do, something in the back of my mind is going to cross reference what value I get from continuing to invest in this game with the value of the time gained from logging off and doing something else.

This isn't a forum post, it's a book on why you hate the new VIP program. Now Cordovan had to read this book as the community manager, because you felt the need to write this book.

 

[cdbd3rd]

This isn't a forum post, it's a book on why you hate the new VIP program. Now Cordovan had to read this book as the community manager, because you felt the need to write this book.

Good. It needs to be read.

Polls are worth the paper they're written on, but when it's showing 2-to1 against a thing it should be noticed by the Powers.

 

[Jasparius]

its a loyalty program to entice gamers to buy into the 12 month VIP option. If you don;t like the idea of being locked into VIP for 12 months you simply say "many thanks sir but...no".

No need for a PhD thesis

"Pay for 12 months and get 2 cool things and 10 thing noone cares about !!"

Some programme !!

 

[Guntango]

You're absolutely right and I should...except the whining has been ongoing for weeks and the arguments haven;t changed in nature hence "if you don;t like chained VIP simply ignore the offering"

Amazing that you have yet to grasp arguments that have been going on for weeks; maybe because you think it’s more important to tell people they’re whining than to actually understand.

 

[Warsaga]

This isn't a forum post, it's a book on why you hate the new VIP program. Now Cordovan had to read this book as the community manager, because you felt the need to write this book.

Other students paid me to write papers for them in college like a decade ago. Whenever there was a school play, I wrote the dialogue for everyone's parts. For one of my creative writing classes, I adapted Dante's Inferno and reimagined from a modern perspective, what a guided tour of each of the nine circles of hell would look like. All this to say - yes, I've always loved to use my words.

 

[DDO Gaming]

Amazing that you have yet to grasp arguments that have been going on for weeks; maybe because you think it’s more important to tell people they’re whining than to actually understand.

well:
1. "I don't like chained-VIP because of xyz reasons"
2. "Chained-VIP demands I logon at least once a month and some months I cannot do that"
3. "SSG doesn;t value/listen to her customers"
4. "We customers know more about added value than SSG"
5. "VIP no longer offers value so I'll stomp my feet because that's easier to do than apply my time elsewhere"

I think I have summarized all the main arguments that have been raging/recycling for several weeks

 

[PersonMan]

Other students paid me to write papers for them in college like a decade ago. Whenever there was a school play, I wrote the dialogue for everyone's parts. For one of my creative writing classes, I adapted Dante's Inferno and reimagined from a modern perspective, what a guided tour of each of the nine circles of hell would look like. All this to say - yes, I've always loved to use my words.

Now eagerly awaiting "Why the VIPLP is Dumb: The Musical"

 

[Shear-buckler]

I think I have summarized all the main arguments that have been raging/recycling for several weeks

Sorry to break it to you but the complaints about this system will never go away. There is too much wrong with it and it gets even worse over time.
The insinuation that the devs can't have gotten this system wrong is ironic considering the fact that the last time they tried they messed up so bad they had to scrap it and start over from scratch.

 

[Falkor]

What the community asked for, and what SSG promised, was to address underlying issues with the VIP program.

They didn't do that.

A VIP Loyalty program is a completely new program. A new program DOES NOT EQUAL repairing the original issues with VIP.

The original issues with VIP remain. Instead of addressing long standing concerns and issues with VIP, those were ignored and neglected. Instead this VIP loyalty system added fuel to an already existing fire.

A VIP loyalty program DOES NOT equal repairing VIP. A VIP loyalty program is actually a totally separate thing than VIP.

SSG reneged on their promise to actually fix VIP.

Instead of fixing what was broken, they shoved another half baked, poorly thought out system out the door as a placebo. They said one thing, and did another. Again. This is how SSG decides to SSG.

Instead of repairing VIP, it's a poorly implemented gotcha game to manipulate people into long term commitment. And those who make that commitment, have to go thru extra hoops to receive the rewards for being supportive. It literally punishes the people who ARE supportive.

A GOOD VIP PROGRAM IS ATTRACTIVE AND MAKES PEOPLE WANT TO GIVE THEIR MONEY TO SUPPORT THE GAME AND SYSTEM.

This is so easy and basic. I really don't understand how SSG keeps failing to understand this. SSG seems to think they have to trick people into giving them subscription money, when really all they have to do is provide good value and honor their word.

And they don't. And haven't for a longtime. And VIP subs continue to decline. And instead of looking at their own broken systems, they blame the players and try to manipulate us. And instead of listening to us, think they have all the answers.

We never asked for a new system. We simply wanted the issues with the original VIP system fixed. And there were many simple, easy fixes that were profitable. So many win-win scenarios. And instead of those, we get ... this.

Pretty easy for anyone who isn't smooth brained to comprehend the frustration and anger with yet another let down, empty promise and poorly implemented game system. It's really simply to understand how lies, manipulation and disrespect leads to frustration and outbursts. This is Human 101.

At this point, personally, I consider SSG to be a lost cause. Their longstanding habits are predictable, with predictable results. This VIP loyalty reward program is just further proof of cluelessness and zero marketing or relationship skill.

 

[Shear-buckler]

What the community asked for, and what SSG promised, was to address underlying issues with the VIP program.

They didn't do that.

A VIP Loyalty program is a new program. It's a new thing. It does not address the long-standing issues with VIP that SSG promised to address. Instead, they added more programs and left the original ones unaddressed. Instead of addressing long standing concerns and issues with VIP, those were ignored and neglected, and instead this VIP loyalty system added fuel to an already existing fire.

A VIP loyalty program DOES NOT equal repairing VIP. A VIP loyalty program is actually a totally separate thing than VIP.

SSG reneged on their promise to actually fix VIP. Instead of fixing what was broken, they shoved another half baked, poorly thought out system out the door as a placebo. They said one thing, and did another. Again.

Instead of repairing VIP, it's a poorly implemented gotcha game to manipulate people into long term commitment. And those who make that commitment, have to go thru extra hoops to receive the rewards for being supportive. It literally punishes the people who ARE supportive.

A GOOD VIP PROGRAM IS ATTRACTIVE AND MAKES PEOPLE WANT TO GIVE THEIR MONEY TO SUPPORT THE GAME AND SYSTEM. This is so easy and basic. I really don't understand how SSG keeps failing to understand this. SSG seems to think they have to trick people into giving them subscription money, when really all they have to do is provide good value and honor their word. And they don't. And haven't for a longtime.

Pretty easy for anyone who isn't smooth brained to comprehend the frustration and anger with yet another let down, empty promise and poorly implemented game system.

Here's my theory. The devs don't want players to sub. That their data shows that players who don't sub are more likely to buy DDO-points and that players tend to got for the large high-value point packs and that players are more likely to spend their DDO points the more of them they have. In other words, players who sub are less likely to get the 15-30k point packs and players who sit at 15-30k ddo points are more likely to splurge.

 

[Falkor]

I mean honestly ...

We know the VIP subscription is a failure b/c a good one is irresistible and almost everyone would have one. And they don't.

A great VIP subscription has people WANTING to sign up.

A great VIP subscription has little to no buyers remorse.

A great VIP subscription has value, and doesn't feel like giving money to a charity to 'keep the doors open.'

And instead we have ... a VIP system that fewer and fewer people find value in ... and now an added VIP loyalty program that isn't going to attract new subscribers, and has instead alienated current paying ones.

This IS NOT the way.

 

[Ungermax]

You're absolutely right and I should...except the whining has been ongoing for weeks and the arguments haven;t changed in nature hence "if you don;t like chained VIP simply ignore the offering"

But it isnt your job to moderate or redirect the discussion. If you dont want to read people complaining about the junk VIP program, then dont come to the thread where you know people are doing that

 

[Ungermax]

I mean honestly ...

We know the VIP subscription is a failure b/c a good one is irresistible and almost everyone would have one. And they don't.

A great VIP subscription has people WANTING to sign up.

A great VIP subscription has little to no buyers remorse.

A great VIP subscription has value, and doesn't feel like giving money to a charity to 'keep the doors open.'

And instead we have ... a VIP system that fewer and fewer people find value in ... and now an added VIP loyalty program that isn't going to attract new subscribers, and has instead alienated current paying ones.

This IS NOT the way.

Yup I think this is one of those situations where the decision makers are just so out of touch with the player base that they think anything they do or implement will just be a success, despite the horde of people objecting. I honestly think they have seen the request for blue reaper wings and thought "You know what, we can put something else blue behind the players and they will give us CASH for it."

As things are, I will not be supporting the game month on month. I might still consider XPACS but even then, I can just wait til they go onto the store and keep my cash.

If SSG want to continue devaluing their content, then that is fine. I will just continue to play for free. People can virtue signal all they like saying they keep VIP open to support the game and that is also fine, but. Do not act like someone isnt supporting the game just because they let their now-worthless subscription lapse. I do not need VIP for elite opening, or for store points, or a miniscule XP boost, because all these things can be unlocked for free or gained infinitely by just playing the game (for free).

I bet if SSG placed a link on the website to "Support the game each month, just because" with no actual benefits, some people would do it.

 

[Lacci]

I´m not a VIP player and even I am upset by it ...