U62 Preview 1 Weapon W Scalar Revamp

[Torc]

With this pass we are standardizing weapons across the entire game to follow a new W scale. This affects all named weapons and shields, with exceptions listed below. Basically items will now scale their [W] modifier starting at level 10 and steadily increase until level cap instead of doing big jumps at certain thresholds like they do now.

Exceptions:

Like all of DDO, blanket rules of balance are closer to guidelines. In this case, although changing every single item programmatically was on the table, we opted for a more individual approach so we could keep a close eye on things that deserve a little more care.

To that end, here are the exceptions to this overhaul and some rules to help guide understanding of the process:

• Items that are level split - aka have Normal/Hard/Elite versions, remain as-is.
• Very old legacy items with sufficient creative nostalgia or effort required to obtain them (such as heroic Greensteel) remain as-is.
• Specialty scripted quest items (such as the Earthcarver Shard) remain as-is.
• Old event items that have been retired with remain as-is
• Crafted items that gain minimum levels when they are upgraded (such as Alchemical) will have their dice set to the highest minimum level they could obtain.
• Note that this does not affect things that boost W score on weapons, such as Vorpal or the Deadly Weapons spell. We are changing the base W on the weapon itself, and not adjusting any W-boosting gear or effects. If a weapon is level 30, it will be 5W, and casting Deadly Weapons will make it 6W as expected.

Our big goal with this is to provide a way for our items to scale upwards as the level cap continues to increase, and fix some of the dead zones concentrated around high heroics and early epics where gear advancement isn't as meaningful. We also want to smooth out our curve - right now, weapons kind of flounder around then zoom all the way up to 5W without warning. We hope this new scalar allows you to enjoy using more level-appropriate weapons, and we hope that the sizeable boost in [W] for items in some of those previously-strangely-scaled level ranges give much needed love to old favorites.

Fun fact, this means the Epic Sword of Shadow is actually getting stronger. Before it was level 20 and 2.5W - under this new scalar, level 20 means 3W.

Level	W Scalar		Level	W Scalar		Level	W Scalar
1-10	1.0W
11	1.2W		21	3.2W		31	5.2W
12	1.4W		22	3.4W		32	5.4W
13	1.6W		23	3.6W		33	5.6W
14	1.8W		24	3.8W		34	5.8W
15	2.0W		25	4.0W		35	6.0W
16	2.2W		26	4.2W		36	6.2W
17	2.4W		27	4.4W		37	6.4W
18	2.6W		28	4.6W		38	6.6W
19	2.8W		29	4.8W		39	6.8W
20	3.0W		30	5.0W		40	7.0W

 

[Dragnilar]

Will Blackrazor (Echo and Reflection versions) remain as is, to avoid upsetting him?

 

[Lotoc]

Will the raid weapons from Baba/Strahd/KT all be bumped down to 4.6W due to being ML 28 or will they remain statted like level 30 weapons?
For instance unless there's consideration for certain raid weapons something like Tremor will have less W than a Morninglord Maul

 

[QuantumFX]

Will the raid weapons from Baba/Strahd/KT all be bumped down to 4.6W due to being ML 28 or will they remain statted like level 30 weapons?

Also will the level 29 raid weapons (ex. Dryad and the Demigod) also be taking a downgrade to 4.8W?

 

[Triaxx2]

Will this be a buff for Thunderforged weapons? Or will they be remaining the same?

 

[Zaszgul]

Is there... really much of a point to this?

The way Sentience works, you're not going to upgrade weapons much - it's a massive grind. You get one you like at 20 or 21, and use nothing else till whatever you like at 29/whatever. That's not going to change much when the cap is 40, nobody wants to grind 20 sentient weapons or swap 10 filigrees every few levels.

If the [W] scaled with YOUR character level, then I could see a point. But otherwise... I don't get it.

 

[Lotoc]

Is there... really much of a point to this?

The way Sentience works, you're not going to upgrade weapons much - it's a massive grind. You get one you like at 20 or 21, and use nothing else till whatever you like at 29/whatever. That's not going to change much when the cap is 40, nobody wants to grind 20 sentient weapons or swap 10 filigrees every few levels.

If the [W] scaled with YOUR character level, then I could see a point. But otherwise... I don't get it.

There's been recurring feedback around Attuned Bone Weapons and basically every weapon after (especially Fire Over Morgraive weapons) that it's almost impossible to make better weapons than them between the set bonuses and buildable effects.
Frankly every weapon being added to the game being called worthless isn't healthy.
Without this change it's quite possible to see Attuned Bone being BiS until level 40 if not until a new LGS crafting weapon type is made.

A major issue is weapons haven't really been scaling in damage since the release of Ravenloft outside of specific effects like vorpal and keen giving +W and every effect around them has continued to scale.

 

[Loathesome Dung Eater]

How would this affect weapons from the Cormyrian Traders from the Challenge materials?

 

[CBDunk]

Overall, entirely in favor of making the [W] progression smoother. Great change... with some potential initial implementation pains.

DEFINITELY expect some concerns with individual weapons getting bumped down a bit... especially if they were particularly difficult to obtain. I might suggest holding off on applying this to level 29+ weapons until the next level cap increase comes out and introduces weapons with higher [W] values than anything currently in the game.

Presumably this will also apply to things like Flame blade, Thorn blade, and Shadowblade that scale based on caster level. As Zaszgul mentioned, I'd love to eventually see MORE of that in the game. Heck, if there were a complete equipment set that scaled based on something like [Character Level - 5] I think EVERYONE would work towards getting it for leveling purposes and then only keep endgame gear and a few other pieces for nostalgia and specific individual powers. Which... is likely why we WON'T see more items scaling with character level, but it sure would be nice.

 

[rabidfox]

Is there... really much of a point to this?

The way Sentience works, you're not going to upgrade weapons much - it's a massive grind. You get one you like at 20 or 21, and use nothing else till whatever you like at 29/whatever. That's not going to change much when the cap is 40, nobody wants to grind 20 sentient weapons or swap 10 filigrees every few levels.

If the [W] scaled with YOUR character level, then I could see a point. But otherwise... I don't get it.

I've been saying for ages that they need to give sentient jewels their own gear slots independent of weapons as it ties out our hands in a bunch of way.

The issue I would say is problematic with the current weapon bypass systems is the way sentience is tied to weapons makes swapping mainhands an issue (trying to build up a full set of various DR breakers with filigrees is not a realistic concept for most people) . If they were to untie jewels from weapons and give them their own gear slot (with filigrees linked directly to the jewel) then it would open things up better towards the weapon swap as needed to break DR methods. Then weapon and jewel/filigree swaps could be done independently of each other; win/win.

 

[Rincewind]

Will the raid weapons from Baba/Strahd/KT all be bumped down to 4.6W due to being ML 28 or will they remain statted like level 30 weapons?
For instance unless there's consideration for certain raid weapons something like Tremor will have less W than a Morninglord Maul

For what I understand raid weapons have their effect and numbers as if they were 3 levels higher in Legendary levels. I'm actually more worried about Unwavering Ardency and other similar weapons.
I tried to convince them to do something similar in heroic and epic content ( as +1 for heroic and +2 for epic but they didn't like it for reasons)
It's a shame because a lot of good items are not being used much because of it.

 

[Spook]

So this should be based on power level rather than minimum level as others have mentioned RL raid weapons in particular have a lower ML than power level. I am not sure ML 32 event items being the highest +W items in the game is a good thing but time will tell.

 

[Thorntoe]

Will Cannith Crafted weapons follow the same formula?

 

[Ying]

Some attuned dino weapons (ML31) like handwraps are incorrect, still 5W:

 

[Ying]

Will the raid weapons from Baba/Strahd/KT all be bumped down to 4.6W due to being ML 28 or will they remain statted like level 30 weapons?
For instance unless there's consideration for certain raid weapons something like Tremor will have less W than a Morninglord Maul

Login to Lamannia and inspect the weapons. Chaosbow is 4.6W. LGS weapons are now 4.2.

 

[QuantumFX]

For what I understand raid weapons have their effect and numbers as if they were 3 levels higher in Legendary levels. I'm actually more worried about Unwavering Ardency and other similar weapons.
I tried to convince them to do something similar in heroic and epic content ( as +1 for heroic and +2 for epic but they didn't like it for reasons)
It's a shame because a lot of good items are not being used much because of it.

So this should be based on power level rather than minimum level as others have mentioned RL raid weapons in particular have a lower ML than power level. I am not sure ML 32 event items being the highest +W items in the game is a good thing but time will tell.

I was going to wait for Torc to respond, but since it's coming up naturally I guess this is a good time to ask for the following:

Hey Torc, could we get you guys to add an attribute to items that tells us when the item scales higher than its minimum level? ex. Masterful Craftsmanship: This item is considered to be a level <insert actual level of item enchantments> item for the purposes of calculating weapon W, and scaling enhancements. It would be really helpful.

 

[Nickodeamous]

HI Torc,

Couple of questions.

1. Is this active on Lam? I just logged in and my lev 31 attuned bone Handwraps are showing the same W as they do on live. With this change, I would have expected a 0.2 increase, which I am not seeing.

2. This does look nice, but honestly, without the ability to move sentient gems in full for free from one weapon to the next, I personally wont be changing from my lev 20 Borderlands Weapon until I get to my lev 31 weapon (both of which have sentients). I don't see the point to pick up anything and use it in between without this function.

3. Just checked a few of my handwraps.

Lev 31 attuned Bone: 5w
Lev 28 Thunderforged: 4.5w
Lev 28 Duality: 5w
Lev 29 Fetters: 5.5W

All appear to be off

Thanks!
Nic

 

[Hammatimes]

This would also be a good time to look at the weighted dice. Dice were weighted in Ravenloft to create an actual difference between the base damage of one handers vs two handers, there will still be this shock of sudden relevancy at level 28 when suddenly a quarterstaff has higher base damage than a heavy mace. Loot gen and cannith crafted weapons also lack weighting. Also, there are huge inconsistencies with offhands.

Type	Loot Gen Dice	Standard Dice?	Loot Gen Profile	Standard Profile?
Buckler	D4	D6+2	20 x2	19-20 x3
Small Shield	D6	D8+4	20 x2	19-20 x3
Heavy Shield	D6	D10+6	20 x2	19-20 x3
Tower Shield	D6	D12+8	20 x2	19-20 x3

Dice and profiles are all over the place for named offhands but I believe those are the intended standards with an additional +2 on raid items. Orbs are even worse, loot gen have D6 20x2, Int Hit/Cha Damage. Named are split between D4, D6 and D8, 20x2 and 19-20x2, and some are Int Hit/Cha Dam while others are Int/Cha to both Hit/Dam. Many named bucklers are also Dex to Damage that it seemed standard for awhile.

 

[Dragnilar]

Login to Lamannia and inspect the weapons. Chaosbow (ML28) is 5.1W.

Sounds like Blackrazor won't be eating anyone to compensate for a loss of power when U62 lands...

All joking aside, thanks for sharing this one.

 

[Ying]

For those interested about Sharn weapons, they are 4.8W which follows the new scaling. Fully upgraded, they still benefit from 0.5W so they are 5.3W. Here's an example of the PN kukri.

Not upgraded:

Fully upgraded: