Kali's Bard Spellsinger Inquisitive HYBRID Ranged/CC+ Insta-kill Caster build

[Kalibano]

Just curious what you final numbers are like. Stats, DCs, et al.

Hi @Mand O'Lin
Been a while, but I finally got the last pieces of my endgame gear set (Dino lol)!
Osfield's boots were an absolute pain to get (not available via runes).

I've updated the main thread with numbers (e.g. DCs, Spell powers), so thought I'd let you know in case you wanted to have a quick look
When considering numbers, don't forget to bear the following in mind:
Preface to the build:
- all numbers are based on what a first-lifer (or someone with minimal past lives) would have, normally unbuffed (but for this bard I had songs + yugo on), outside of reaper mode (they do, however, include equipped gear and partially completed filigrees). They are real characters, and those are the numbers I can offer.
- numbers are indicative of the potential minimum amounts that can be achieved with the investments that were proposed

If you have any constructive comments/ suggestions, I'd be keen to hear, especially if you have a lot of experience with bards (as your forum name seems to suggest)

 

[legnusa]

hi Kalibano love your build.. just wondering if u could share with us your gameplay footage especially on R1 and other reapers on how you play this build. Thanks.

 

[Kalibano]

hi Kalibano love your build.. just wondering if u could share with us your gameplay footage especially on R1 and other reapers on how you play this build. Thanks.

Hi @legnusa Glad you like the build, and thanks for the suggestion

I do intend, at some point in the future, to add gameplay footage for all my builds. I'd say that's 'phase 2', whereas 'phase 1' to me involves getting all my builds in their individual threads in the forum.

Every time new content/gear gets released, I have to pause and revisit each build, as these are real alts that I play in game. I'm so used to it by now, having held several alts since 2006 lol, but it does slow projects like this down. It's all fun to me, personally, and I do it in my own time (when time allows ofc), so it's a win

Sorry to disappoint this time

 

[Daleisme101]

I have been following this build completely, and I seriously don't know what I need Illusion DCs for. Greater Color Spray? Literally this build focuses so heavily on Evocation that it feels nerfed without it. Most enemies are basically immune to Greater Color Spray late game, too. So it's basically useless for the build.

 

[Kalibano]

I have been following this build completely, and I seriously don't know what I need Illusion DCs for. Greater Color Spray? Literally this build focuses so heavily on Evocation that it feels nerfed without it. Most enemies are basically immune to Greater Color Spray late game, too. So it's basically useless for the build.

Hi @Daleisme101 Thanks for your message.

I see where you are coming from: this build packs a lot in, so some things are not particularly obvious at first glance. Perhaps these comments/thoughts will help clarify things a bit:

• Spellsinger gives Illusion DCs for free, while boosting Evocation and Enchantment. This was one of the initial reasons to explore if there would be enough abilities that could take advantage of that
• Being hybrid, I knew it would be highly likely that I would use the Magewright set, as its set bonus boosts the DC aspect of the build. Even if I decided not to go with Illusion at all, one of the items of this set boosts Illusion DCs significantly (equipment and insightful bonuses)
• The Scion that would be most beneficial for this build is Feywild, and guess what: it boosts Illusion!
• CHA to hit and damage live in the Feydark Illusionist tree, and guess what: it supports illusion casting!
• All in all, it literally felt like I was pushed towards looking for Illusion stuff to take advantage of all this. It would have felt wasteful not to

So, during the planning stage, the key abilities that I pin-pointed to benefit from Illusion DCs are:

> Shadowdancer's 'Weird',​

This is a mass insta-kill ability, very strong. This alone is a strong reason to invest in Illusion DCs, especially considering how spellsinger already gives Illusion DCs for free, so it's not like you are having to go way out there into 'less useful' trees to get some​

​

> Greater Colour Spray​

Another strong ability: no offense, but it is far more useful than you seem to realise, and it works very well in the endgame content, inc high difficulties. Some of its key benefits are in gold color:​

​

(from Wiki)​ Enemies are sprayed with illusions of color, and must make a Will save or be Dazed,Blinded, and/or Silenced. The target must make a saving throw for each effect. Dazed effect by this spell won't be removed by damage, and render enemies helpless. Targets normally immune to Illusions (for example Spiders, Scorpions, Undead and Constructs) can still be blinded and silenced.

​

Some further comments:​

• helpless and blindness are highly desirable de-buffs
• this is in addition to (not replacing) Mass Hold. Considering how Mass Hold unfortunately has a very long cooldown, this is very welcome indeed
• it's particularly useful on things that are immune to Mass Hold, like undead and constructs
• it's range is longer than spells like Greater Shout, so you can cast from a slightly safer distance
• WILL save spells, in general, are very desirable, as it seems to be the least resisted by mobs
• each time you cast an illusion spell you apply a de-buff on your enemies:

> Feydark Illusionist's 'Twist Reality': Offensive Illusion spells reduce enemies' Will saves by 1 for 10 seconds. This stacks 3 times.​

N.B. The level 1 bard spell Color Spray does not cause helplessness, and is generally not as useful at endgame. I use it to apply the de-buff above, so I only apply quicken, and not heighten, Embolden, etc

---

Hopefully this clarifiies the reasons for the choices I made.

In the end, it is possible for different directions to be taken:

> Shiradi T5​

> no investment in Illusion abilities (though the bonuses to Illusion DCs will still be there, for free, even if you decide to focus on Evocation or Enchantment)​

I'd be keen to hear how things go if you do take a different direction with this build, if you don't mind sharing here of course! It is likely to help anyone who's interested in this build and wants to tweak it a bit

 

[Kalibano]

The main post has been edited to include buttons to click and expand info.
I used the spoiler tool, as it provided the effect I desired: there are no spoilers, though

The aim was to reduce potential visual overload, as well as the overall length of the main post. This creates potential to include more breakdowns.

I'd be keen to hear feedback from anyone who frequently visits my threads: do you prefer this layout?
I am working slowly towards doing the same for all other builds: hope this enhances everyone's experience when visiting and exploring!

---

Some breakdowns included:
> imbue die
> sneak attack die
> fortification bypass

 

[Kalibano]

More stat breakdowns were added.

Enjoy!

 

[tertriary]

hey! is tiefling scoundrel required for this build or could you do just fine with another race? i've been eyeing it but i unfortunately do not have any of the iconic races yet

 

[Kalibano]

hey! is tiefling scoundrel required for this build or could you do just fine with another race? i've been eyeing it but i unfortunately do not have any of the iconic races yet

Hey there

Happy to share some some thoughts on this:
- All in all, a different race would work, but would be less synergistic in one important aspect: imbue die:

> Scoundrel grants an imbue that does sonic damage on each hit, scaling with spellpower, which synergises very well

- this build invests in a good amount of sonic spellpower = 760+​

> There aren't other races that grant sonic imbue

> The only other option for sonic imbue is in Swashbuckler, at tier 3, which is quite a heavy investment (at least 11 APs)

- this build does not invest at all in Swash, so major compromises would need to be made to acquire that​

> Inquisitive does grant an imbue that is easily accessible @T1, so it's not like you would lose the imbue entirely

- however, this imbue scales with ranged power​

- this is a hybrid ranged/caster build, and the need to get spell DCs working involve getting far less ranged power than a pure ranged build would get, as some investments (e.g. filigrees) cannot be fully dedicated towards ranged power​

> Another consideration here is whether you want to use this build for a quick TR life or as your main endgame build. The dps loss would be less ideal for the latter.

Hope this was helpful, and that you enjoy the build if you decide to give it ago!

 

[Kalibano]

For hybrid builds like this, I strongly recommend NOT swapping out any investment (e.g. feats, enhancements, etc.) made to increase spell DCs. To expound on my reasoning, I added more specific details in an earlier post in this thread about some of the main differences between pure casters and hybrids ref spell DCs.

Hope this is useful to anyone using this build

 

[Kalibano]

Weapon critical profile section updated to include:

> breakdowns of the threat range and multiplier​

> average additional base damage %​

- for weapon crit profile (after feats/compentence bonuses applied)​

- for crit profile boosts (e.g. on 19-20 rolls)​

Hope this extra info is helpful.

 

[Kalibano]

U66 changes (updated in the main post and DDOBuilder file)
Some changes were made to the main Epic Destinies used by this build: Shadowdancer and Shiradi Champion.

Though Shiradi has become far more appealing, at this point I will continue to use Shadowdancer as my main destiny. Weird is just too good an ability to give up, and Shadowdancer T5/Shiradi T3 still seem to support the hybrid concept more strongly than going Shiradi T5/Shadowdancer T3.

> The key active changes I made were:

• Shiradi Champion
  • I've done some re-shuffling and additions, since the costs and positions of some of the enhancements were adjusted

• Shadowdancer:
  • T5 'Unholy feeding' was added

Pre-U66:

... with the changes indicated above and below:

> The key passive changes were very positive:

• Shiradi Champion
  • Core abilities now grant +15 HP, +25 SP.
  • Hunt's End and Pin have switched places, Pin becomes the new epic strike. Pin gets upgraded now in Hunt's End's place, and Hunt's End is now multiselected with the Beguiling Charm ability and is no longer an Epic Strike.
  • Pin is now: "AOE Ranged Attack: Make a Ranged Attack that shatters on impact, hitting all enemies in a small area around where it lands. If a moving enemy is affected, they are slowed for 12 seconds. 15 second cooldown."
  • Otto's Whistler's Immobilize and Dance effects when upgrading Pin have been reduced to a 6 second duration (though still with no saving throw) as Pin's ability to lock down groups is now significantly stronger.
  • Hunts End is now a ranged attack that deals +250% damage and automatically crits.
  • New Enemy of my Own multiselector: Fey Form: You gain Dr10/Cold Iron, +5 Force and Universal Spell Power, and your main hand weapon becomes an Implement.
  • 
    
  • Not currently being used, but planned to be taken in the future with more Epic Destiny points:
  • Fey Form mantle upgrade is now Cruelty of the Hunt: You deal +10% damage against the helpless.
  • Track now works on harmful spell casts and reduces saves by 1/stack.
  • New Whirling Wrists multiselector: Flickering Fingers: +1/2/3 Imbue Dice.
  • The second Strike upgrade for Pin is "Overwhelming Force: Pin now applies 10 stacks of Track to enemies struck." The first strike upgrade in tier 3 is Otto's Whistler, which moved in from its previous location in tier 4.

• Shadowdancer
  • Core abilities now grant +15 HP and +25 SP.
  • Shadow Mastery Epic Moment's activation time has been significantly reduced.
  • Weird is now a SLA instead of a Spell Book Spell, with the same cost and cooldown as it had before.
  • New Tier 5 to replace Greater Shadowform: Unholy Feeding: On kill, you gain 5 temp HP per sneak attack dice. You also gain +10 Force and Universal Spell Power and are immune to Pressure Plates and Bear Traps.

• Machrotechnic
  • The cooldowns of the Hammer Time spells and the damaging Epic Strikes have swapped places - leaving the Sonic and Electric Epic Strikes at 10 seconds and the Hammer spells at 15 seconds.
  • Rune Arm Use now allows you to use highest of INT/WIS/CHA for Rune Arm DCs

With the adjustments indicated above, the build remains good to go as is Enjoy!
.

 

[DDO Noob]

Hey there

Happy to share some some thoughts on this:
- All in all, a different race would work, but would be less synergistic in one important aspect: imbue die:

> Scoundrel grants an imbue that does sonic damage on each hit, scaling with spellpower, which synergises very well

- this build invests in a good amount of sonic spellpower = 760+​

> There aren't other races that grant sonic imbue

> The only other option for sonic imbue is in Swashbuckler, at tier 3, which is quite a heavy investment (at least 11 APs)

- this build does not invest at all in Swash, so major compromises would need to be made to acquire that​

> Inquisitive does grant an imbue that is easily accessible @T1, so it's not like you would lose the imbue entirely

- however, this imbue scales with ranged power​

- this is a hybrid ranged/caster build, and the need to get spell DCs working involve getting far less ranged power than a pure ranged build would get, as some investments (e.g. filigrees) cannot be fully dedicated towards ranged power​

> Another consideration here is whether you want to use this build for a quick TR life or as your main endgame build. The dps loss would be less ideal for the latter.

Hope this was helpful, and that you enjoy the build if you decide to give it ago!

I've been wondering how I would adjust this build to include the 11 APs in Swashbuckler. You see I'm inching my way towards Racial Completionist and have not done any of my Teifling lives yet. I have a bonus Universal point and 12 Racial points, but that might not be enough to maintain the integrity of what your build is aiming to achieve given the adjustments I'd need to make spending on the enhancement trees. Please let me know your thoughts on this.

 

[Col Kurtz]

?any reason (besides just limited # of enhancement points) you didn't pick conjure bolt?

 

[Kalibano]

?any reason (besides just limited # of enhancement points) you didn't pick conjure bolt?

Hey there,

I did use it for a while, but at cap I always conjure the Everstar bolt from the Hallowed Splinters heavy crossbow, so it became redundant, and got swapped out

 

[Col Kurtz]

thx 4 posing this up

i didn't no where's near follow exactly, but WoW is this performing in epic right now. Mowing through gianthold at r2 (is not a Giant feat. giggles, but lol..i'm no where's near maxed out and at only 37 reaper points at the moment)

stil using borderlands weapon, drops enemies just fine
color spray is about 75% effective
otto dance is super effective
bust out the single target dance on reapers
fascinate works great, but my buddy clips everything , so not really using it in groups

grabbed quicken spell feat.. can CC mobs, and rotate through my AOE's fast n' machine gun down any left

aoe heals... and those nice utility spells and buffs... jeez this is way more fun than I remembered ,having done bard like 8 years ago as swashbuckler.

*question>..is improved precise shot worth it? not liking that-20% dps number it says we get... but, this is my 1st ranged toon in epic, so no experience testing that stuff
* also, did straight 20 Bard...have you tried the 16 bard/4 arti with this?

 

[Kalibano]

thx 4 posing this up

i didn't no where's near follow exactly, but WoW is this performing in epic right now. Mowing through gianthold at r2 (is not a Giant feat. giggles, but lol..i'm no where's near maxed out and at only 37 reaper points at the moment)

stil using borderlands weapon, drops enemies just fine
color spray is about 75% effective
otto dance is super effective
bust out the single target dance on reapers
fascinate works great, but my buddy clips everything , so not really using it in groups

grabbed quicken spell feat.. can CC mobs, and rotate through my AOE's fast n' machine gun down any left

aoe heals... and those nice utility spells and buffs... jeez this is way more fun than I remembered ,having done bard like 8 years ago as swashbuckler.

*question>..is improved precise shot worth it? not liking that-20% dps number it says we get... but, this is my 1st ranged toon in epic, so no experience testing that stuff
* also, did straight 20 Bard...have you tried the 16 bard/4 arti with this?

Thank for sharing your experience with the build Sounds like you are enjoying it, so it's a massive win!

I used impr precise shot very often vs trash prior to the changes to some ranged attacks becoming AoE. I must confess it takes me longer to notice the impact of changes because I cycle my play time through a large number of alts. I suspect I might not use it as much (depending on how many of my attacks became AoE, and their cooldowns during my rotations). I'll have to share more info on that at a later time, but if you get the chance, and don't mind sharing, I'd be keen to hear your take on this.

The spellsinger capstone is so nice, I didn't really want to give it up. Quite possible the split you suggested would have stronger DPS, particularly because of 'Endless Fusilade', but I personally feel this build strikes a great balance between being effective at casting and ranged dmg.

Color Spray will feel a lot stronger at cap, once Illusion takes over as the main school, and you get to use Weird too.

 

[Col Kurtz]

* curious what charisma you ended up with at cap/

I'm sure I neutered myself by not taking the 2 illusion feats...but the core stat is usually more important. What I find from most forum builds is some main stat between 90-100+ but, even when I refine a build for the main stat 2-3 times...I'm lucky to get mid to high 70's. I have +8 tome.. w insightful, festival, profane bonus'.

basically, my cc's are working at cap at r1.. but dont last long enough, and dps isn't quite good enough no keep it fun at this point.

This build worked great until cap... smoking r1 up to lvl 29 dungeons. But I never planned on sticking with it either way, so I doubt i'd farm equipment for a month just to be able to solo reaper at cap with more comfort.

*This is my fault of course... not the build. I'm using the regular race not iconic.. ..so my imbue is Law, not Sonic,

>>> Though, it also reminds me how DDO just has the numbers required way too high for more casual players to enjoy pushing into harder content. (my warlock was very comfy at r2 at cap, and my pali r3...I'm not unfamiliar with how to play up there)

Very fun to run this to lvlup to 30..had very few hiccups along the way. I'd recommend the style for sure, just maybe need to stick to OP's suggestions if you wanna run at lvl32 reaper with it and are stuck solo a lot.

 

[Kalibano]

* curious what charisma you ended up with at cap/

I'm sure I neutered myself by not taking the 2 illusion feats...but the core stat is usually more important. What I find from most forum builds is some main stat between 90-100+ but, even when I refine a build for the main stat 2-3 times...I'm lucky to get mid to high 70's. I have +8 tome.. w insightful, festival, profane bonus'.

basically, my cc's are working at cap at r1.. but dont last long enough, and dps isn't quite good enough no keep it fun at this point.

This build worked great until cap... smoking r1 up to lvl 29 dungeons. But I never planned on sticking with it either way, so I doubt i'd farm equipment for a month just to be able to solo reaper at cap with more comfort.

*This is my fault of course... not the build. I'm using the regular race not iconic.. ..so my imbue is Law, not Sonic,

>>> Though, it also reminds me how DDO just has the numbers required way too high for more casual players to enjoy pushing into harder content. (my warlock was very comfy at r2 at cap, and my pali r3...I'm not unfamiliar with how to play up there)

Very fun to run this to lvlup to 30..had very few hiccups along the way. I'd recommend the style for sure, just maybe need to stick to OP's suggestions if you wanna run at lvl32 reaper with it and are stuck solo a lot.

Hey again

Thx a bunch for sharing how you got on with the full levelling experience! Very useful indeed to anyone coming here and looking for info on this build!

Though I do solo, in reaper mode, most (if not all) of the content needed for me to get up to around mid-high epics, I don't personally solo endgame reaper a lot at all. Because I dislike the TR hamster wheel, I tend to stay at endgame with the majority of my alts, and grouping with others and doing R6-10 is how I personally enjoy playing DDO.

As a consequence, I don't purposely design my builds to solo endgame reaper. It's quite likely that many will do fine (some better at it than others, for sure), but I am unable to personally attest to that, since I don't solo endgame reaper (6-10) much at all. In that sense, it has been valuable to see your experience playing solo with it, and sharing specific differences with the OP (e.g. some different feat choices, not same gear set up, not same imbue, etc.).

Ya, I'd say sticking to the choices I suggested are paramount to securing the DCs to make things work at endgame. Like you said, the numbers required for builds without past lives and rare bonuses are hard to achieve indeed, so every little bit of spell DC and DPS makes a big difference (especially when put together).

A lot also depends on player knowledge of the game in general really (i.e. content, mechanics, gear, strategies, etc.), so any specific build would likely perform differently on the hands of different players

---

* curious what charisma you ended up with at cap/

I'm sure I neutered myself by not taking the 2 illusion feats...but the core stat is usually more important. What I find from most forum builds is some main stat between 90-100+ but, even when I refine a build for the main stat 2-3 times...I'm lucky to get mid to high 70's. I have +8 tome.. w insightful, festival, profane bonus'.

Happy to share a couple of screenshots with my stats (as per date this was posted), with a couple of comments to keep in mind:

• numbers will reflect past lives/ reaper points/ rare bonuses on equipment specific to this character alone, which may not be fully reflected in the numbers I shared in the OP
• Dino crafting and filigrees are not yet fully completed as per OP
• in the OP, I tend to put numbers like 110+, the 'plus' symbolising the numbers are likely minimums achievable with the investments suggested, and can only go upwards with past lives, rare bonuses (e.g. myth, deck of many curses, etc.). Some of the numbers in the images below are in the 'plus' already

> OUT of reaper, fully buffed, in a tavern:

> In the event this also proves useful, INSIDE a reaper quest (with the specific # of reaper points I have), fully buffed:

---

Don't really care about the haters coming to bash these numbers down, not here for them really.

I am here to provide an option for the large number of players who don't particularly enjoy having to spend 10 years going through all the lives in the game before they get to play that one wizard they wanted to play a decade earlier Ofc, also for the players who want to do the TR Hamster-wheel, but don't yet have a ton of past lives and/or rare bonuses. It might come as a shock to some, but players with a lot of past lives can use this too

For many 'casual' players, there is a very viable and fun life in DDO at endgame, while grouping with the the large number of players who seem to prefer reaper mode. If sharing these helps demonstrate that, my objective has been achieved!

 

[Col Kurtz]

thx man

yea, I was curious if i could still use Ruin/G ruin for bosses at cap and picked those instead of the illusion DC pop. I guess that's not really viable though its hard to tell how much Ruin got nerfed?

The PRR is just too squishy to play reaper solo in all the end game content. I did fine in a few sharn I tried, and the new chef dungeon. But not comfy enough to push into more skulls.

I bet if I had 50-100 reaper points that would make a big difference.. I'm at 37. All in good time