Account wide achievements

[Lazuli]

Currently one can't move shards, pets, mounts, monster manuals (monster manuals even break for some folks when they transfer), nor guild stuff when doing a server transfer; which is problematic for anyone who wants to move servers. Account linked past life progress would be another nail in the system there.

Well, I don't see this as bad, really. Astral shards, pets and mounts I do see as something that should be account-wide, but the progress associated with playing a server is not a bad thing that is limited per server, especially if the transferred character still benefits from sharing on their previous server even if you do not have developed toons on your new server to help you improve it in the future.

In my opinion, astral shards should be like DDO points, linked to account. Pets and mounts should have a flag, so that when you gain access to one you can claim it on each server. At least, the pets and mounts you bought in the store (store mounts are stupidly expensive for server-specific, imo). Specific pets earned by playing or favor I'm okay with unlocking them on each server.

Guild stuff is another story, since I dislike the current system and if it were up to me, I would completely redesign it. The guild system should encourage grouping and cohesion between players, so buffs shouldn't be tied to a guild level, and I find that the ship system in general seems more designed to get money than to provide cohesion between players that all MMOs are looking for with the guild system. Oh well. This is DDO, where the quality of life and even the coexistence between players are subject to predatory purchases.

Devs should fix the monster manual bug...

 

[droid327]

I don't see why implement a system that harms grouping, when there are solutions that don't. And no, the goal is not to bring your alts closer to your main. The goal is to make it more attractive to play multiple characters, regardless of whether you have a main or not.

Not only does your system disproportionately benefit those who play a single character, but it encourages new players to focus on a single character first, and then get a greater bonus on their alts. It's not a fair system with people who likes play multiple characters. Better is a system that equally favors those who have played or are going to play multiple characters and those who have a supermain. If someone has 150 PL among four characters, they should not be disadvantaged compared to someone who has 150 PL in a single character. They have both played the same.

Imagine a player who has 80 PLs in a single character, while another has 4 characters with 20 PLs each. With your system, the first player's characters would receive a bonus 4 times greater than the second player's, even though both have worked to get 80 PLs. It's not fair, especially when the player who currently has alts is more likely to enjoy the concept of multiple characters than the one who currently only has one character. The ideal is to design proposals that equally help players who play alts as well as those who have a supermain and find daunting the idea of starting an alt from scratch. It's neither fair nor necessary to discriminate against multi-character players with a system that's meant to encourage multi-character play.

And as I say, I would like the sharing to be greater than a third of PLs, but I have set a modest limit because I believe that devs will welcome the idea better than something greater or a total sharing.

I guess that's the difference in game design philosophy, then

I dont think the goal is to encourage people to play alts, its simply to remove barriers to playing alts. Likewise, the goal is to simply remove barriers to playing with a group.

If you want to play 4 mains, essentially, that's fine, and each will advance at the same rate. The problem I think needs to be addressed is when you have one character that's really powerful, and you'll never get your alt caught up to the same level of investment, which discourages you from playing the alt and "wasting time" re-earning what you already earned on your main.

What I dont think is fair is playing 4 characters for 1/4 of the time, and getting more value out of it than advancing 1 character 4x as far. I feel like that incentivizes alt play, which goes too far.

If you level faster based on how many past lives your main has that is literally a "rich get richer" situation.

Not really. When the issue is "My alt has to catch up to my main", the people with mains way ahead of their alts are the poor ones, not the rich. I dont have an issue with people who have already invested lots of time in their mains having to invest less time in their alts, thats kinda the whole point.

Like I mentioned above, "My main is way behind older vets' characters" is a separate issue, which needs a separate solution.

 

[Scrag]

Mains and alts are an issue. I found that the drift between my main and my alt, who I just played as two mains, drifted MASSIVELY if I spent more time on one char for the other. Even within one life!

Do two or three raids on one char and not the other, and the raid loot shifts the awesome needle a lot.

Need more gear? Its going to end up on the char you play more (at that time), leaving your (now) alt in the dust for two reasons:

1. *@!#!@*#!@# inventory problems
2. BtC

I am ultra disincentivized to run an alt as a result.

 

[Lazuli]

I guess that's the difference in game design philosophy, then

I dont think the goal is to encourage people to play alts, its simply to remove barriers to playing alts. Likewise, the goal is to simply remove barriers to playing with a group.

If you want to play 4 mains, essentially, that's fine, and each will advance at the same rate. The problem I think needs to be addressed is when you have one character that's really powerful, and you'll never get your alt caught up to the same level of investment, which discourages you from playing the alt and "wasting time" re-earning what you already earned on your main.

What I dont think is fair is playing 4 characters for 1/4 of the time, and getting more value out of it than advancing 1 character 4x as far. I feel like that incentivizes alt play, which goes too far.

No, players who play more than one character have the same problem of keeping all their characters up to date as those who play a single character and want to have more. Both types of players face the same problem: the massive PL grind that exists today, and they would equally benefit from a catch-up mechanism.

Your philosophy seems focused only on benefiting your personal position, centered on your powerful supermain. But both types of players have worked equally well on their PLs, both deserve to benefit equally from a catch up mechanism.

you play 4 toons, get 80 PLs between the 4 toons or you play 1 toon, you got 80 PL in one toon. In what universe is the second more meritorious than the first? If you hurry me up, the one who has done it in 4 toons has even more merit, because the more powerful your toon is, the faster and easier it is to gring PLs lol

 

[droid327]

you play 4 toons, get 80 PLs between the 4 toons or you play 1 toon, you got 80 PL in one toon. In what universe is the second more meritorious than the first? If you hurry me up, the one who has done it in 4 toons has even more merit, because the more powerful your toon is, the faster and easier it is to gring PLs lol

What you're describing here isnt a catch-up mechanic, its a shared-progress mechanic. I think the difference is each character needs to actually earn their own progress - I'm just arguing that the progress should be easier to earn after you've already done it once. Not that it should just be granted to you automatically, or that you can earn progress on one character by playing another.

If you want to propose a shared-progress system, that's fine, but its different than a catch-up mechanic. And if you want to propose a shared-progress system...then I think go all in on it. I think the game needs to either be individual-progress (as it is now) or shared-progress, but not some bastardized hybrid between the two. So if you want shared progress, then lets just share all PLs, lets share all unlocks, lets get rid of BTC and make all items BTA, lets add an NPC to dupe any bound item so you can use them on alts, etc. Make everything account-based (or at least server-based)

 

[Lazuli]

What you're describing here isnt a catch-up mechanic, its a shared-progress mechanic. I think the difference is each character needs to actually earn their own progress - I'm just arguing that the progress should be easier to earn after you've already done it once. Not that it should just be granted to you automatically, or that you can earn progress on one character by playing another.

If you want to propose a shared-progress system, that's fine, but its different than a catch-up mechanic. And if you want to propose a shared-progress system...then I think go all in on it. I think the game needs to either be individual-progress (as it is now) or shared-progress, but not some bastardized hybrid between the two. So if you want shared progress, then lets just share all PLs, lets share all unlocks, lets get rid of BTC and make all items BTA, lets add an NPC to dupe any bound item so you can use them on alts, etc. Make everything account-based (or at least server-based)

I have proposed a mechanic for sharing lives in a thread that proposes account wide achievements, what a surprise. Of course it is a PL-sharing mechanic, but it is also a catch-up mechanic because it is not a total sharing, and it allows you to approximate the power of your different characters. If you have played a single character, it allows the others to reduce distances in power, but if you have played several it also allows them to progress to the same extent.

Because that is the good thing about my proposal. Both people who have one main character and those who play several benefit to exactly the same extent. Why does having a single character have to be more beneficial? It's ridiculous. My proposal benefits both types of players equally, given that to obtain the same benefit you have had to work the same. It doesn't matter if you do it in one or several characters, you have worked the same, you get the same benefit. If you hurry me up, the super main still has an advantage because it is easier to grind PL on a more powerful character and because you do not have the risk of having repeated PL, as would happen in someone who has four characters and two of them have completed the same race or class.

And why does it have to be all or nothing, black or white? The world is full of vibrant colors and also gray scales. Your proposal is not all or nothing either, you give more or less xp depending on the number of PL difference. As I said, for a long time I defended sharing all PLs, but since the devs flatly refuse that, I propose sharing only a certain number of them. The number I have proposed is modest, but it would be enough so that the alts would not be so hopelessly weak.

You lose sight of why the catch up mechanism is necessary: it's because there is an exaggerated, overkill, number of PLs, and that makes playing more than one character downright scary. It is a problem that both those who have a supermain and those who currently play multiple characters have. I don't know what your staunch defense of the supermain player is about. If the supermain player may feel that his alts are too weak, the same feeling has the multi-character player, seeing that his efforts are much less rewarded by the current game than for the player who only has one. character, when both have invested the same effort to achieve the same number of total PL.

I never felt the need to share between characters until SSG lost his mind and started putting in HUNDREDS of PLs. The reincarnation system was a brilliant idea until the devs took it to the extreme, creating a balance and boredom problem for themselves, and killing the desire to play more than one character in the process. The only thing I do with my proposals is shorten the grind to more reasonable levels if you play more than one character. The grind is still overkill, and SSG should realize that.

 

[Chacka]

I have proposed a mechanic for sharing lives in a thread that proposes account wide achievements, what a surprise. Of course it is a PL-sharing mechanic, but it is also a catch-up mechanic because it is not a total sharing, and it allows you to approximate the power of your different characters. If you have played a single character, it allows the others to reduce distances in power, but if you have played several it also allows them to progress to the same extent.

Because that is the good thing about my proposal. Both people who have one main character and those who play several benefit to exactly the same extent. Why does having a single character have to be more beneficial? It's ridiculous. My proposal benefits both types of players equally, given that to obtain the same benefit you have had to work the same. It doesn't matter if you do it in one or several characters, you have worked the same, you get the same benefit. If you hurry me up, the super main still has an advantage because it is easier to grind PL on a more powerful character and because you do not have the risk of having repeated PL, as would happen in someone who has four characters and two of them have completed the same race or class.

And why does it have to be all or nothing, black or white? The world is full of vibrant colors and also gray scales. Your proposal is not all or nothing either, you give more or less xp depending on the number of PL difference. As I said, for a long time I defended sharing all PLs, but since the devs flatly refuse that, I propose sharing only a certain number of them. The number I have proposed is modest, but it would be enough so that the alts would not be so hopelessly weak.

You lose sight of why the catch up mechanism is necessary: it's because there is an exaggerated, overkill, number of PLs, and that makes playing more than one character downright scary. It is a problem that both those who have a supermain and those who currently play multiple characters have. I don't know what your staunch defense of the supermain player is about. If the supermain player may feel that his alts are too weak, the same feeling has the multi-character player, seeing that his efforts are much less rewarded by the current game than for the player who only has one. character, when both have invested the same effort to achieve the same number of total PL.

I never felt the need to share between characters until SSG lost his mind and started putting in HUNDREDS of PLs. The reincarnation system was a brilliant idea until the devs took it to the extreme, creating a balance and boredom problem for themselves, and killing the desire to play more than one character in the process. The only thing I do with my proposals is shorten the grind to more reasonable levels if you play more than one character. The grind is still overkill, and SSG should realize that.

I almost fully agree with this, but I have to say that the minimum demand here is that all progression that currently stays on a single character (most consider such a character as their so-called 'main') after a true resurrection should be applicable to all characters on your account. This means all past lives, Reaper experience, and every other 'grind' that might be added in the future.

Don't get me wrong; in principle, I believe compromising is most of the time a good thing, but here there is basically no compromise. It should be a consistent paradigm shift from character-based progression to a system that benefits the player whenever they play any character on their DDO account.

As I stated earlier in this thread, I strongly believe this would be a great benefit for players because it makes it much more attractive to play several characters. Additionally, playing on the hardcore server would be possible without losing playtime on your currently so-called 'main.' You could also play much easier on different servers, enjoying the benefits of having different builds at hand, such as tanks or healers, for example, when needed in a raid you want to play with your guild.

Last but not least, I also expect SSG to benefit from this because I anticipate significantly more sales in the DDO store. Even if it might sound paradoxical, I can imagine SSG could sell more Otto's boxes among the player base because they would have increased value for everyone. I would expect that this would outweigh the Otto's boxes a few players might currently buy for alts. However, to emphasize this again, all these benefits only work if we have true account (or at least server) based progression; a catch-up mechanic is not enough for that.

 

[Thor]

SSG, "UH,huh huh huh, but we're still working on the new and improved VIP Program....uhhuhuhuhuh. This seems um, complicated..."

 

[Shear-buckler]

I almost fully agree with this, but I have to say that the minimum demand here is that all progression that currently stays on a single character (most consider such a character as their so-called 'main') after a true resurrection should be applicable to all characters on your account. This means all past lives, Reaper experience, and every other 'grind' that might be added in the future.

Don't get me wrong; in principle, I believe compromising is most of the time a good thing, but here there is basically no compromise. It should be a consistent paradigm shift from character-based progression to a system that benefits the player whenever they play any character on their DDO account.

As I stated earlier in this thread, I strongly believe this would be a great benefit for players because it makes it much more attractive to play several characters. Additionally, playing on the hardcore server would be possible without losing playtime on your currently so-called 'main.' You could also play much easier on different servers, enjoying the benefits of having different builds at hand, such as tanks or healers, for example, when needed in a raid you want to play with your guild.

Last but not least, I also expect SSG to benefit from this because I anticipate significantly more sales in the DDO store. Even if it might sound paradoxical, I can imagine SSG could sell more Otto's boxes among the player base because they would have increased value for everyone. I would expect that this would outweigh the Otto's boxes a few players might currently buy for alts. However, to emphasize this again, all these benefits only work if we have true account (or at least server) based progression; a catch-up mechanic is not enough for that.

Not everything should be shared, it would risk be not enough grind left, doing the grind on "lesser" characters would be an objective waste of time and there would be no individuality left to the characters. Making past lives shared and reaper character specific is the perfect division at this point. All characters would have their own endgame "struggle to overcome" and be faced with a potentially very long but also very front-loaded grind that is best performed at the stage of the game where the character is most complete.

 

[Chacka]

Not everything should be shared, it would risk be not enough grind left, doing the grind on "lesser" characters would be an objective waste of time and there would be no individuality left to the characters. Making past lives shared and reaper character specific is the perfect division at this point. All characters would have their own endgame "struggle to overcome" and be faced with a potentially very long but also very front-loaded grind that is best performed at the stage of the game where the character is most complete.

If everything you currently retain after a true resurrection is in the future account-based, not everything is shared anyway.

You still have to level each character to level 32, and you have to equip every character with items. Even if I also wish all items to be Bound to Account (BTA), the average player, including myself, will most likely grind items for each character.

Not to forget that you can add individual grind for characters, for example, the feats you can buy for mysterious remnants and thread of fate.

And it is also not very hard to add additional grind for your account if the developers see that it might be needed. Like, we most likely see legendary past lives in the near future or if they add past lives for new archetype classes.

I'm very optimistic that there is enough to "grind" for almost all players even with account-based progression.

And you should also consider that currently, the amount of grind is most likely designed to give players enough to do who play only ONE so-called "main," and if such players now play additional alts, they practically have a lot more to do.
And this not despite but because of account-based progression.

Because my assumption is, and of course, I can be wrong, that even if there is now theoretically a lot more to do, most players don't seriously play alts anymore.

 

[Shear-buckler]

If everything you currently retain after a true resurrection is in the future account-based, not everything is shared anyway.

You still have to level each character to level 32, and you have to equip every character with items. Even if I also wish all items to be Bound to Account (BTA), the average player, including myself, will most likely grind items for each character.

Not to forget that you can add individual grind for characters, for example, the feats you can buy for mysterious remnants and thread of fate.

And it is also not very hard to add additional grind for your account if the developers see that it might be needed. Like, we most likely see legendary past lives in the near future or if they add past lives for new archetype classes.

I'm very optimistic that there is enough to "grind" for almost all players even with account-based progression.

And you should also consider that currently, the amount of grind is most likely designed to give players enough to do who play only ONE so-called "main," and if such players now play additional alts, they practically have a lot more to do.
And this not despite but because of account-based progression.

Because my assumption is, and of course, I can be wrong, that even if there is now theoretically a lot more to do, most players don't seriously play alts anymore.

Leveling is trivial and most gearing is already BTA.

I see your point that there should be enough grind to so to keep playing with a single character, but that would in princple be for the average player. That leaves half the player base with nothing to grind. Desiging the single character grind for the top 1% is also problematic.

You would also end up with the by far most optimal way to grind rxp, items and everything else is to play your top character.

 

[Chacka]

Leveling is trivial and most gearing is already BTA.

I see your point that there should be enough grind to so to keep playing with a single character, but that would in princple be for the average player. That leaves half the player base with nothing to grind. Desiging the single character grind for the top 1% is also problematic.

You would also end up with the by far most optimal way to grind rxp, items and everything else is to play your top character.

Leveling each alt means the same as one HTR+ER—no more, no less. Therefore, having 50 characters on one server means another 49 heroic past lives and 49 epic past lives on your "grind list."

And if you're feeling really bored, you could create another 50 characters on another server.

As I mentioned before, even if all items are Bound to Account (BTA), you will likely grind for items for each alt you actually play because it's practically quite annoying to switch all items each time you play another character.

I find it hard to believe that half of the player base has completed all past lives and accumulated 156 or more Reaper Action Points (APs). Although I don't have statistics, this doesn't align with my experience when I play DDO and meet other players in PUGs.

Out of curiosity, do you have all past lives done and 156+ Reaper APs?

My estimate is that perhaps only less than 5% of the player base has a character with everything. Additionally, it raises the question of whether many of these players are genuinely interested in playing alts, especially given the current conditions where starting each alt from scratch feels like starting DDO anew.
Furthermore, it seems counterproductive to design a game with the goal of providing every last player with enough "grind". It is more than sufficient if a game meets the needs of 95% of the player base.

Not to mention that legendary past lives are already announced (they say there are no legendary past lives yet, if I recall correctly).
And it would also be quite easy for SSG to extend the reaper expirence points you can actually use past 156 APs if this is really need to give players more to do if reaper exp are account based.

In conclusion, I would say that you're discussing theory, and I'm talking about what actually happens, even if I can only estimate based on my personal experience.

 

[Shear-buckler]

Leveling each alt means the same as one HTR+ER—no more, no less. Therefore, having 50 characters on one server means another 49 heroic past lives and 49 epic past lives on your "grind list."

And if you're feeling really bored, you could create another 50 characters on another server.

As I mentioned before, even if all items are Bound to Account (BTA), you will likely grind for items for each alt you actually play because it's practically quite annoying to switch all items each time you play another character.

I find it hard to believe that half of the player base has completed all past lives and accumulated 156 or more Reaper Action Points (APs). Although I don't have statistics, this doesn't align with my experience when I play DDO and meet other players in PUGs.

Out of curiosity, do you have all past lives done and 156+ Reaper APs?

My estimate is that perhaps only less than 5% of the player base has a character with everything. Additionally, it raises the question of whether many of these players are genuinely interested in playing alts, especially given the current conditions where starting each alt from scratch feels like starting DDO anew.
Furthermore, it seems counterproductive to design a game with the goal of providing every last player with enough "grind". It is more than sufficient if a game meets the needs of 95% of the player base.

Not to mention that legendary past lives are already announced (they say there are no legendary past lives yet, if I recall correctly).
And it would also be quite easy for SSG to extend the reaper expirence points you can actually use past 156 APs if this is really need to give players more to do if reaper exp are account based.

In conclusion, I would say that you're discussing theory, and I'm talking about what actually happens, even if I can only estimate based on my personal experience.

Half, no. A growing number that should no be ignored, yes. Adding more grinds, like raising the reaper AP cap creates a wider gap between new and established players. Doing your reaper points on a second character when it's not shared would be "horizontal" grind and not something that puts new player even further behind.

 

[voenixa121]

So I got a question, because it seems there are some conflicting messages on these forums:
Are past lives so weak that you don't need them if you only have enough "skill" or so powerful that you can't play a new character without them?

 

[Silverfox]

So I got a question, because it seems there are some conflicting messages on these forums:
Are past lives so weak that you don't need them if you only have enough "skill" or so powerful that you can't play a new character without them?

It's all about helping out the "New Players"

 

[Chacka]

So I got a question, because it seems there are some conflicting messages on these forums:
Are past lives so weak that you don't need them if you only have enough "skill" or so powerful that you can't play a new character without them?

My opinion is that past lives and Reaper Action Points (APs) are not necessary for playing and having fun. However, this does not contradict account-based progression, nor does it advocate for it.

And account-based progression doesn't explicitly help or disadvantage new players.

Unfortunately, most players, regardless of whether their opinion is for or against account-based progression, ignore the fact that you can only play ONE character at the same time. Therefore, playing several alts with the same power as one so-called "main" because of account based progression doesn't make anyone stronger or "richer."
It just might feel like that but this is not a bad thing especially for DDO Store sales...

You just have fewer past lives and Reaper experience at hand if you are currently playing several alts, a disadvantage that is way too significant.

Even if past lives and Reaper APs were purely cosmetic, I would still vote for account-based progression because I believe it is, in principle, a better idea than starting each character from scratch.
However, I would not go so far as to allow "cloning" your "main." For me, the fun lies in playing from levels 1 to 32 with a new build and learning it from scratch. Nevertheless, expecting players to go through each character more than 117 times from levels 1 to 32, and additionally "grinding" 156+ Reaper Experience Points (rxp), is far too much.
As I mentioned, from what I can observe, Dungeons & Dragons Online (DDO) is primarily designed for players who focus on only one "main" character. It provides such players with enough content. Therefore, account-based progression is essentially a logical next step to steer alt-playing away from masochism and make it a viable option once again.

 

[Sturmbb]

So I got a question, because it seems there are some conflicting messages on these forums:
Are past lives so weak that you don't need them if you only have enough "skill" or so powerful that you can't play a new character without thNon

Hi there, None of my toons are TR and i get by fine on R3. I think most people who are okay it creating or copying builds form other players are fine in DDO. I would say I'm an under average DDO player. So i think if i can play without TR bonuses etc, than most people can. I never bought into the TR train. I mainly play Hardcore now, as playing on live i just dont find as enjoyable due to the grouping limitations (servers less popular and the player base spread out over 32 levels). The number one reason i love Hardcore is due to it encourages group play. 95% of people of grouped with on Hardcore run as a group / team. On live when i do manage to get a Pug Party together i would say 50% of the time a high TR character comes in a demolishes the dungeon while the rest of us run in his wake. So you don't need TR past lives to play this game as the content is not hard, but if you want to zerg and feel like a god than yes TR past lives will give you that rush.

 

[adamkatt]

Um im pretty sure the MM is account wide... and no i didnt go through the whole thread.

 

[Suggestion]

Um im pretty sure the MM is account wide... and no i didnt go through the whole thread.

Actually the MM is server wide, not truly account wide.