Are Rogues Just Bad?
- Thread starter Elminster
- Start date
Elminster
Well-known member
How is that even possible?
rabidfox
The People's Champion
The answer is the same as what I posted before. He's a great player who knows how to rock melee.
Guntango
Well-known member
Good point, cleaning house in a measured way:
1. DC Sorc: a whole lot of kills
2. Vanguard Pali: 24 kills
3. SWF Pali: 35 kills
4. Shuri Monk: 35 kills
5. Int Ass: 35 kills
FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted
Well-known member
look up "stupid" in the dictionary and you will see...
Bjond
Well-known member
Do one of two things to answer your own question: play with a semi-decent rogue or just indulge in a little napkin-math on a sin-build. Rogues have amazing DPS and Utility. My only peeve is about how they lost scuttle-speed back when you could stack up sneak-speed to the point where your sneak was as fast or faster than non-sneak. THAT was fun.
Like any style, though, it's the players who care enough to work at maximizing their performance that make the biggest difference.
Like any style, though, it's the players who care enough to work at maximizing their performance that make the biggest difference.
HoopleHead
Well-known member
2 arti 18 Rogue and you will absolutely TEAR stuff up with an inquis build... just mind the lag when you instantly steal agro from everyone/anyone in party
Thwart
Well-known member
Only if you hate things that are awesome.
Mokune
Well-known member
I used to enjoy playing rogue a lot before champs, reaper and aggro changes. I loved stealth play, single pulling of mobs with Bluff.
Heck, I used to Bluff a mob I was actively engaged in melee with, stealth then assassinate them.
There was an old school rogue video on Youtube of stealth play soloing Elite Sins of Attrition that impressed the hell outta me and taught me A LOT.
I cannot recall when the aggro and bluff changes happened with regards to single pull but one day it worked and the next day after that update it didn't.
So, I just stopped trying. Didn't try to re-gear or figure it out. Was just too aggravating.
It felt like when they took away Monk poison immunity to make their Menace of Underdark drow poison attacks shinier.
Stealthy play and Bluff single-pull tactics would make their Reaper mode less shiny so effed it up good and proper.
Can Reapers even be pulled with Bluff? Do you have to have Charisma as maxed Main Stat and Bluff and Ins Bluff gear etc etc. to even..."pull" it off?
Heck, I used to Bluff a mob I was actively engaged in melee with, stealth then assassinate them.
There was an old school rogue video on Youtube of stealth play soloing Elite Sins of Attrition that impressed the hell outta me and taught me A LOT.
I cannot recall when the aggro and bluff changes happened with regards to single pull but one day it worked and the next day after that update it didn't.
So, I just stopped trying. Didn't try to re-gear or figure it out. Was just too aggravating.
It felt like when they took away Monk poison immunity to make their Menace of Underdark drow poison attacks shinier.
Stealthy play and Bluff single-pull tactics would make their Reaper mode less shiny so effed it up good and proper.
Can Reapers even be pulled with Bluff? Do you have to have Charisma as maxed Main Stat and Bluff and Ins Bluff gear etc etc. to even..."pull" it off?
Elminster
Well-known member
They did kinda screw with stealth play considerably imho.
I mean they basically trashed an entire layer of play in their quest to make things "hard".
What I want to see is strealth play come back with some slick modifications, wherein if you ever get discovered your only recourse is to RUN FAST or most likely just insta-die.
Bjond
Well-known member
IMHO, INQ is a great way to self-nerf what would otherwise be a pretty decent bow or thrower ranged at cap. I do understand the attraction: INQ is chock full of nice features, making builds very easy. A little extra planning and you can play INQ sub-29 with bow|throw 29+. Best of both.
This is another reason I'm irked with INQ at cap: SSG *still* has not fixed -threat and imbues. So, they steal agro, making their low DPS even more annoying and killing self-improvement because most don't know about the threat bugs with INQ; they just think "I'm pulling agro, my dps must be really good".
INQ is stellar sub-29 -- can't be beat there -- but once you have gear to fully support bow or throw, INQ is left far FAR behind (about 50% of a good bow or throw build).
Yes! I use bluff regularly to single-out Doom's. My builds usually have Bluff skill maxed for this, but rarely do they bother with CHA (maybe a 12 or 14 diamond if there's space at cap). Fully geared with CHA is the most reliable, but it's still pretty reliable with just skill + one item (these days a fair number of things include "improved deception +20", which is bluff+20 with improved deception).
The biggest problem I've found with bluff is that people don't know what I mean when I say "wait, I'll bluff it". They'll instantly jump the whole pack when they see the doom move or they'll jump the doom too soon (when it's in agro range of the pack). So, while it works, it's kinda nerfed by player habits.
saekee
long live ROGUE
me too! That player had dual Wounding of Puncturing rapiers and would swap a chattering ring quickly to make noisy steps to shift them. Crazy cool video.
I bluff pull them with tier 2 LGS goggles and Legendary Golden guile. It is a double swap, a pain in the donkey to do, but the stats are high
TedSandyman
Well-known member
If you don' t sit at endgame, inquisitive thief is one of the more fun classes to level. And it is really easy to do great dps even if you don't have the best equipment in the game. I play one on hardcore and have a great time with it. Is it the best? No. Is it fun? Definitely. I for sure wouldn't call it broken. The min/maxers might think it's broken but from a fun-to-play perspective, it definitely is not broken in my opinion.
Bjond
Well-known member
I've run an INQ/PM hybrid on HC. INQ is just astoundingly good sub-cap and PM adds immortality once you're L15. It doesn't even require much gearing to play sub-reaper solo or reaper-grouped as a 1st life.
Viamel
Well-known member
Hello, I'm Gunga's bro, I love rogue.
I have been happily soloing r10s without any CC all week. Sometimes I get a random pug with some 50 odd reaper points to help me and we have fun as a little duo. (I'm actually Dex based it was easier to gear)
Also, chains are OP, so I went halfling.
In group play r10s rogue is solid, brings a nice collection of debuffs, (ooze,dust,vuln,shattered,shadow loss, darkness, assassins trick, Mark target, imp sunder) Rogue does well picking up kills with very solid single target dps and I'll regularly assassinate constructs/undead/elementals in group play r10s. Anything that can be assassinated is on the cards of course but constructs/elementals tend to go down slower than other mobs so they make good assassinate targets.
In raids you churn out very meaningful dps, can strip poison immunity and SA immunity on bosses and of course trap.
In solo/duo play I rely very heavily on the stealth mechanic and movement to string things out and pick them off with a combination of assassinate and raw dps. Rogue is well suited to solo play in r10s because it has Uncanny dodge so with some patience and a dimension door any boss can be readily dealt with.
For handling reapers while solo I strongly recommend scrolls of Power Word Blind.
Just some examples of quests I've soloed this week;
Invitation to Dinner, (4th try, easy cards)
Nightfalls on Stormreach (1st try)
Madness of Crowds (1st try)
Memoirs of an Illusionary Larcenist (1st try)
Edit: (disclaimer)
I have *most* past lives, all my ED and Action points, maxxed reaper exp and extremely good gear.
I have been happily soloing r10s without any CC all week. Sometimes I get a random pug with some 50 odd reaper points to help me and we have fun as a little duo. (I'm actually Dex based it was easier to gear)
Also, chains are OP, so I went halfling.
In group play r10s rogue is solid, brings a nice collection of debuffs, (ooze,dust,vuln,shattered,shadow loss, darkness, assassins trick, Mark target, imp sunder) Rogue does well picking up kills with very solid single target dps and I'll regularly assassinate constructs/undead/elementals in group play r10s. Anything that can be assassinated is on the cards of course but constructs/elementals tend to go down slower than other mobs so they make good assassinate targets.
In raids you churn out very meaningful dps, can strip poison immunity and SA immunity on bosses and of course trap.
In solo/duo play I rely very heavily on the stealth mechanic and movement to string things out and pick them off with a combination of assassinate and raw dps. Rogue is well suited to solo play in r10s because it has Uncanny dodge so with some patience and a dimension door any boss can be readily dealt with.
For handling reapers while solo I strongly recommend scrolls of Power Word Blind.
Just some examples of quests I've soloed this week;
Invitation to Dinner, (4th try, easy cards)
Nightfalls on Stormreach (1st try)
Madness of Crowds (1st try)
Memoirs of an Illusionary Larcenist (1st try)
Edit: (disclaimer)
I have *most* past lives, all my ED and Action points, maxxed reaper exp and extremely good gear.
Last edited:
Guntango
Well-known member
And you’re a top tier player.
Jack Jarvis Esquire
Well-known member
FWIW Among many great players, there are two particular players I've run R10s with over the years which I consider the to be the best I've come across. One is a rogue. 
No.