FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted
Well-known member
since when did elminster get a new anon account?
Build Challenge
- Thread starter CBDunk
- Start date
Lazuli
Well-known member
This topic comes from a post in the lammania thread that said that a first lifer with few reaper points could easily solo R8, and was quickly seconded by people saying that nowadays there is a lot of power and a first lifer can make any content just like a more advanced character.
While I think the OP has gone too far in his requirements (what he is asking for is 100% impossible), the people defending those ideas probably can't support them with practical evidence either.
Ying
5000+ hours played
My retort to those claims: SSOIDH
People claim alot of BS on the forums, especially when it comes to soloing. There are a handful of people I know in this game that are capable of soloing *some* R8 content on a first lifer, but that is not an accurate litmus test and it would be neither fun nor sustainable. More like "one and done and never again".
Lazuli
Well-known member
Exactly.
rabidfox
The People's Champion
That's my approach to soloing r10 even on my completionist. Other than for giggles while suffering to see if I can, I have zero desire to do so more than once. I'd rather run with 5 other awesome people and have fun while going faster.
Onyxia2016
Well-known member
A case in point where a first lifer could complete and R8 solo is the Haverdasher quest.
Depending on luck of the spawns one could live long enough to complete it at that skull level giving them justification in saying "I solo'ed R8."
Most other quests they would get slaughtered.
Depending on luck of the spawns one could live long enough to complete it at that skull level giving them justification in saying "I solo'ed R8."
Most other quests they would get slaughtered.
Lazuli
Well-known member
I solo high reaper with my completionist as a challenge when there are no groups available. I do, yes, although that doesn't mean I do it without flaws. More times than it seems, a bad combination of reapers forces me to restart. I can't do that with my low PLs&reaper points alts.
I'm not a great player. Ying or Dom could surely do it better than me, but I still don't see anyone really doing those things with a first lifer. Some of the easiest quests, in a first life character but with many reaper points and very good equipment, yes, maybe. But any quest (or most of them, not to be demanding)... is not that easy. The player's skill matters a lot, but numbers also matter.
rabidfox
The People's Champion
If I really hated myself, I could probably cherrypick a build and a few quests to solo on a 1st lifer on r10 (I doubt I could with the OP's no named gear requirement, the "rules" they did are just as bad as other's wild claims). But it would be all about safe spotting, hoping RNG resulted in reaper spawns I could handle, and going super slow; it just sounds like misery.
So, everyone agrees that R10 with these conditions is impossible and even R6 would be a rare and difficult thing.
That established... please note that these are the conditions many new players experience the game under.
They don't have a bank full of named items to pull from... and aren't likely to get many fitting their build as they play through content on Normal and Hard while they learn the game. They frequently don't have guilds or other people they know in the game to group with. These ridiculous impossible conditions... are common.
People who think the game is 'too easy' and 'needs more nerfs' need to try to imagine what it is like being unable to get any reaper points... because that is a reality for many new solo players. Even when they eventually build their way up to the level cap. They don't have the gear, past lives, existing reaper points, et cetera needed to do it. Yes, there ARE builds which would absolutely let them do so even under those conditions... but it isn't like you can just pick any reasonable character design (e.g. pure Rogue, assassination build) and jump into reaper content as a new player. Even groups of new players (which IS rare) are going to get wiped unless they have the 'right' build(s).
That continues to be an issue through the first few lives / handful of reaper points / early gear accumulation process. Nerfs HURT. New through 'newish' players who find the game difficult for the build style they thought would be fun can suddenly find themselves going backwards in terms of the difficulty of content that they can handle.
...and even for those of us who have been here for the better part of two decades, have dozens of past lives and reaper points, more named gear than we can fit in the bank / on mule alts, et cetera... too often changes make whole categories of play styles less or non-viable. Stealth is long gone. Pet / summons builds still exist, but become hopeless at high reaper and/or near level cap. Jack of all trades styles are getting more difficult. Et cetera.
People shouldn't be cheering the destruction of entire playstyles just because they have other options. It hurts the game. Less retention of new players... less interest from long term players who liked a particular style which has subsequently been deemed 'not good'. There is a vast difference between 'balance' and destruction that more often than not doesn't seem to be recognized here.
That established... please note that these are the conditions many new players experience the game under.
They don't have a bank full of named items to pull from... and aren't likely to get many fitting their build as they play through content on Normal and Hard while they learn the game. They frequently don't have guilds or other people they know in the game to group with. These ridiculous impossible conditions... are common.
People who think the game is 'too easy' and 'needs more nerfs' need to try to imagine what it is like being unable to get any reaper points... because that is a reality for many new solo players. Even when they eventually build their way up to the level cap. They don't have the gear, past lives, existing reaper points, et cetera needed to do it. Yes, there ARE builds which would absolutely let them do so even under those conditions... but it isn't like you can just pick any reasonable character design (e.g. pure Rogue, assassination build) and jump into reaper content as a new player. Even groups of new players (which IS rare) are going to get wiped unless they have the 'right' build(s).
That continues to be an issue through the first few lives / handful of reaper points / early gear accumulation process. Nerfs HURT. New through 'newish' players who find the game difficult for the build style they thought would be fun can suddenly find themselves going backwards in terms of the difficulty of content that they can handle.
...and even for those of us who have been here for the better part of two decades, have dozens of past lives and reaper points, more named gear than we can fit in the bank / on mule alts, et cetera... too often changes make whole categories of play styles less or non-viable. Stealth is long gone. Pet / summons builds still exist, but become hopeless at high reaper and/or near level cap. Jack of all trades styles are getting more difficult. Et cetera.
People shouldn't be cheering the destruction of entire playstyles just because they have other options. It hurts the game. Less retention of new players... less interest from long term players who liked a particular style which has subsequently been deemed 'not good'. There is a vast difference between 'balance' and destruction that more often than not doesn't seem to be recognized here.
I don't think the game is "too easy", because one can select the difficulty that one prefers make it as hard or easy as one wishes!
BUT it is easier than it's ever been for ungeared, first-life characters.
canicus
Well-known member
I find your entire premise disingenuous. Not a single person you quote (and the second quote is horrifically misrepresented BTW) says anything about soloing anything. How about start with actual claims of soloing high reaper content with anything remotely like the conditions you present. Maybe the reason no one is posting builds to prove their point is that you have set up a Straw Man that can do nothing but fall. If I'm wrong, I apologize, but I think if you had posts that actually made the claims you describe, I assume you would have linked them instead of the one talking about a Full Party.
The Narc
Well-known member
Even though i would never group with a guy smilie, i am not beyond showing my respect to players that are the top talent bracket, and Dom is most certainly that, not sure why you would lump ying into the same group, its uncalled for.
The Narc
Well-known member
Honestly i think the OP is just upset about the loss of dragon breath and healing aura that he/she is looking for people to strike down with other nerfs to make himself feel better.
Lazuli
Well-known member
ying is a very good player too.
Oh man, you're right. I'm glad you did this whole thing, so that you could successfully prove no point. Any build should be able to solo normal/hard content, and if you can't solo content ~~ join a group :O . Farming gear is not hard, sure it can be time consuming, but it is not very hard. This whole post was based on ficticious claims that there are first life naked characters soloing every single quest on r10 (???).
Another thing: the first few times people join r10 groups, they are about worthless (including myself). That's ok, because most r10s only take 2-4 players, and there are a lot of endgame players that enjoy teaching the art of high reapers.
SiliconScout
Well-known member
There is not enough you could offer me to provide SSG with that large a Nerf Target.
Truly that is all it would result in.
You (and many others) don't appear to remotely understand what my premise even is, and yeah, they absolutely did say that.
But that's fine... because I got what I set out to prove; agreement that claims approaching 'any reasonable build can solo high reaper content on the first life' are complete nonsense.
The Narc
Well-known member
Nope(and dont bother moving the goal posts with descriptors like reasonable build nobody is biting on your attempt to suck people in), several people posted that they can and could do it, I for one could certainly do R6 consistently with a first life toon if I cared to spend the time, but couldnt care less to prove it to you. There have been atleast one other player that plays in lava divers(not a guild i am in nor know anything about other that there is some talent there) that has said they could do R10 as a slow grind, but seems again they dont care enough to prove anything to you.
And the side note to it all is that none of the players that can are willing to show you how it is done because they dont want you to start rallying for nerfs to the builds that talented players can do it with.
Oh and just to reiterate, a first life toon with minimal gear can easily run R6 on a first life toon with limited gear(cannith crafted 2 pieces and the rest level 16 and under) with a barovian weapon. I am sure the other player from lavadivers can reiterate their statement about R10. We both can live rent free i your mind while you question and guess at how we are able to do it!