Carrion swarm - why no damage at all on save?

Aelonwy

Well-known member
Well, obviously. We won't be going to level 40 dealing more and more damage or the numbers would be in the millions by the end of it. Expect another stat squish in the next few years as well. Numbers don't matter anyway, if damage goes up then health of enemies does as well. That's why I don't understand why people are so hung up about their numbers. Epic/Legendary Ward are the real barriers, as can be seen here.
Yes obviously... except my damage went way, way down after this last update but *checks notes* NO monster HP remains insanely high. Whether or NOT our damage actually goes up as we journey to 40th level you should expect Monster saves/HP/damage/defenses to increase in great leaps and bounds.
 

DBZ

Well-known member
They balance around Melee DPS 1.2 million crits now raid slogs are even worse and casters and ranged are a waste of a slot
 

Mindos

CHAOTIC EVIL
As we nerf the now to prevent the parabolic rise in power as we march ever onwards towards the future level 40 increase no one wanted or asked for. Sure, I might be wrong. But I don't feel wrong. And you gotta ask yourself, is it the best course of action to keep insisting how right you are, how sure you are, how it must be done, and just dig in and correct the players, no matter what, when at the end of the day the players just ain't feelin' it, yo?

If player "feelings" trump all, even when they're "wrong", doesn't that really make them right? And so this nerf balance design direction reselling of power whatever euphemism you want to use is making people unhappy, why are you doing it? When we reach level 40, and there are 12 quests to do and one raid (but but but more are promised) and nothing to do and all the old stuff is trivial and underlevel, do you think there will be congrats fellow player, you made it to level 40? Do you think anyone will say, congrats Devs, you made the game into level 40?

What are we doing? Where are we going? Why are we doing it? Is it worth the effort? (from my end or yours) "/shrug"
 

Wizard

Well-known member
As we nerf the now to prevent the parabolic rise in power as we march ever onwards towards the future level 40 increase no one wanted or asked for.

Yeah why increase lvl cap when there are already nowhere enough players to cover both heroic and epic and at cap play. And not enough storage to store lvl 1-30 items. Plus level cap increase reduces amount of viable cap quests. Lvl 30 was great (32 thankfully doesn't change much in terms of lockout/overlevel), lots of lvl 30+ quests and raids.
It's probably mainly to sell more otto's and pots for the eventual legendary reincarnation - totally disregarding all the downsides which could very well lose them money instead of gaining (-> population decline)
 

Bjond

Well-known member
I've been thinking about this a lot. Most of the nerfs recently have been to pull the rug out from under casual/less min-max players
Bit of a necro, but IMHO, they've not got a hate for casuals. I think they actualy like their players. It's a different malady entirely.

SSG balances for concept, not effect. This is why DDO has creative DPS with outputs 2~3x higher than a simple pure build; a 5% spread between types is considered outrageous in a normal MMO. If you look back at the changes over the years, it's almost never about balancing effect. It's quite often about upholding and enforcing stereotypes; ie. about which classes are doing what.

Basically, if you're playing a "meme", you're fine. If you're not, watch out. Spells on a melee are not kosher; expect a nerf. Tanking as something other than a fat lump of HP & PRR with a giant shield? Nerf is likely. Self-healing on a non-healer? OMG, the horror!

If it was about effect, SSG would not care how it was being done, but about what was achieved. The nerfs would always and only target builds with spectacular results not surprising methods for mundane results.

IMHO, if your build looks like a duck, it better quack. If it barks, don't post it. It will get muzzled for the sanctity of ducks everywhere.
 

DBZ

Well-known member
Gnome alchemist just max dcs they can get

Not dragonborn so you lose 2 mcls

No fail r10 cc and instakills that will work on MD your right who wants that
 
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Aelonwy

Well-known member
Bit of a necro, but IMHO, they've not got a hate for casuals. I think they actualy like their players. It's a different malady entirely.

SSG balances for concept, not effect. This is why DDO has creative DPS with outputs 2~3x higher than a simple pure build; a 5% spread between types is considered outrageous in a normal MMO. If you look back at the changes over the years, it's almost never about balancing effect. It's quite often about upholding and enforcing stereotypes; ie. about which classes are doing what.

Basically, if you're playing a "meme", you're fine. If you're not, watch out. Spells on a melee are not kosher; expect a nerf. Tanking as something other than a fat lump of HP & PRR with a giant shield? Nerf is likely. Self-healing on a non-healer? OMG, the horror!

If it was about effect, SSG would not care how it was being done, but about what was achieved. The nerfs would always and only target builds with spectacular results not surprising methods for mundane results.

IMHO, if your build looks like a duck, it better quack. If it barks, don't post it. It will get muzzled for the sanctity of ducks everywhere.
Superficially, I can see where you are going with this line of reasoning but it doesn't hold water. They created some of the kinks and screws and twisty builds with things like handwrap Shifter Barbarians, Dark Hunter rangers that are more rogue/druid than ranger somehow. Sure they give us ways to self heal or group heal and then nerf them. But I don't think its because they want to force a healer role on certain classes. I think its because they don't want any one character to have ALL the tools. No. Instead with their constant DC increases with each new cap increase they are forcing... I mean heavily encouraging... specialization. They want each character to be really good at only one thing, semi good at a couple and dreadful at most everything else.

Its obvious just from gearing, just look at all the various stacking bonuses: competence, morale, profane, sacred, insightful, exceptional, quality. I'm sure I'm missing a handful. Got to catch them all like Pokemon. You can gear to be a Jack-of-All-Trades, but you won't be a master of any of them and in this game as it stands today you will struggle not being really good at something in particular.

Funny, I still remember after MotU they said they couldn't raise the Exceptional Bonus to +2 because that was too much, and Exceptional was special. Then they added Insightful Bonuses and more recently Quality. Laughable.

Their problem is that spellcasters by their very nature have a plethora of tools because there is a wide variety of spells. So they are constantly vacillating on how much or on what they want Spellcasters to specialize. For awhile there even melee were being encouraged to specialize more and more... one fighting style, one weapon type, weapon bond so don't switch weapons. Ironically, they've begun opening up on melee choices but at the same time with Sentient Weapons... well you want to use just one weapon as much of the time as possible anyway.

No I see nerfing the group healing as them saying you need to specialize for that and nerfing Dragon Breath as oops casters were getting too good with too many tools at once CC/DPS/Instakill/buffs/healing. They should only be really good at one. Why was Dragonbreath a method they chose to nerf caster DPS? *shrug* maybe because they had just increased our actual spell damage dice in recent years and they were hesitant to undo any of that work? maybe because almost all casters were using it because other caster strikes were crippled on the first ED revamp? Regardless, I still feel they over nerfed it.
 

FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted

Well-known member
u66 makes it more obvious that ssg doesn't want us to play casters. it is rediculous that ED's became stats for casters and little more, and that only 2 maybe 3 casters are actually good at endgame dps now. its a shame that outside of cold, negative, and sonic damage you are kinda screwed in epic destinies now. BC was good in epics due to carrion swarm, and now that it is removed from the game, idk what you do. just get cooldown reduction and acid well ig. its not fair that ssg unjustly nerfed almost all casters and gave little reason to, but here we are. funnily enough, healers were buffed and DC casters remained unaffected, yet dps casters were thrown in the trash, even after the 33% damage r10 penalty that wasn't needed...
 

PraetorPlato

Well-known member
I know i remember charm times they hella nerfd ruins too see the thread

50 percent less damage now

2 legendary feats and single shot only and a massive cost is now garbage
Nobody found testing results that showed that ruin was 50% less, everyone found that it did the exact same damage it used to other than a few rumors.
 
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PraetorPlato

Well-known member
Self-healing on a non-healer? OMG, the horror!
Most builds have incredibly strong self-healing right now (everything but rogue)—DC casters get to be basically full healers, melees get scream heals+something class specific, nukers have 2 destinies with great heals.

More generally, good build execution trumps those balance concerns to a ridiculous degree—a well-executed build, pure included, in any of the top 15 or so DPS builds, will bring more than enough DPS for any content below high skull raiding.
 

PraetorPlato

Well-known member
u66 makes it more obvious that ssg doesn't want us to play casters. it is rediculous that ED's became stats for casters and little more, and that only 2 maybe 3 casters are actually good at endgame dps now. its a shame that outside of cold, negative, and sonic damage you are kinda screwed in epic destinies now. BC was good in epics due to carrion swarm, and now that it is removed from the game, idk what you do. just get cooldown reduction and acid well ig. its not fair that ssg unjustly nerfed almost all casters and gave little reason to, but here we are. funnily enough, healers were buffed and DC casters remained unaffected, yet dps casters were thrown in the trash, even after the 33% damage r10 penalty that wasn't needed...
I agree both nerfs together were an over-nerf, but I do think that they achieved (what I think was) their goal: making more casual players on r4 trivialize content less. This was the more-or-less explicit goal of the Breath nerf, and I think it ties into a broader design issues with casters—top-tier and casual-tier performance were too close together, relative to every other style. The breath nerf did help differentiate that pretty significantly, even tho it did have some other negative effects. Nukers remain viable in r10s, but should probably be brought up a little in that context—reverting the 33% spell damage nerf and keeping the breath nerf would be just abt right IMO.
 

Lazuli

Well-known member
u66 makes it more obvious that ssg doesn't want us to play casters. it is rediculous that ED's became stats for casters and little more, and that only 2 maybe 3 casters are actually good at endgame dps now. its a shame that outside of cold, negative, and sonic damage you are kinda screwed in epic destinies now. BC was good in epics due to carrion swarm, and now that it is removed from the game, idk what you do. just get cooldown reduction and acid well ig. its not fair that ssg unjustly nerfed almost all casters and gave little reason to, but here we are. funnily enough, healers were buffed and DC casters remained unaffected, yet dps casters were thrown in the trash, even after the 33% damage r10 penalty that wasn't needed...
No, there is no caster now that is good at end game dps, at least in difficult content which is where it counts. The devs have literally killed spell dps.

There are classes that are better than others at spell dps, of course, but currently all casters are in a bad position regarding dps.



My feeling for a long time is that these devs act more based on impulses, complaints from interested players who are close to them (they don't listen to the rest of us lol) and presumptions than on other things. Explanations that Steelstar has given of the assumptions for which they have nerfed some things, such as the shiradi proc for caster (who casts spells at that speed? I think not even a bot!) or IPS supports this feeling of mine. They certainly do not seem like premises based on empirical facts.
 

Lazuli

Well-known member
Not for raiding, but there are 3-4 that can still solo r10s quickly.
All classes can solo r10 if you build for them. But comparatively speaking, spell dps is now terrible.

They should reverse the nerf in r7+ and put more reasonable CL limits for epics.
 
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PraetorPlato

Well-known member
All classes can only r10 if you build for them. But comparatively speaking, spell dps is now terrible.

They should reverse the nerf in r7+ and put more reasonable CL limits for epics.
Yeah, that’s why I said *quickly*, people are still getting 7 min grim, etc. on top tier casters.

The issue isn’t single target DPS-that got buffed, cold and fire sorc are both better for raiding now than they were pre-u66. It’s aoe clear, and nerfing dragon breath has created more options and more caster identity. Removing the 33% spell damage nerf would probably put casters back into a decent to very good spot.
 

Vox

Well-known member
there is no caster now that is good at end game dps, at least in difficult content which is where it counts. The devs have literally killed spell dps.

There are classes that are better than others at spell dps, of course, but currently all casters are in a bad position regarding dps.

Agreed. A caster buff really should happen to help casters be able to contribute instead of feeling like second class citizens.

Alchemist has it worst. All other casters are free classes (or just favour unlocks), but alchemist is still a premium paid option.

It's also the squishiest caster, with no hp add trees. Druid has bear + defensive stance, sorc & wiz have ek dips, cleric & fvs are natively tanky with immense self sustain, warlock has temp hp up the wazoo & artificer has RMM.

Due to lv6 spell limit has the lowest spell DC's (unless you spike into a non-nuking stance which is then removed as soon as you use a single crimsonite nuke spell).

Alchemist's get the lowest crit% in the nuker tree (1%), I think only blightcaster also gets 1% as well but they can double dip with seasons herald for +3%.

They get a whole +1 mcl, vs the 6!!! In seasons herald + form in druid, or

I'm not trying to put other casters down. All casters need a buff, just alchemist more so.
 

Jummby

Well-known member
Fort save on the FIRST application of the DOT for NO damage. On all my casters enemies always save since fort is usually a mobs highest save. (in legendary = inflated mob saves). So the spell is 100% useless to me since it almost never does damage.

Since when do DOTs have saves (except I think firewall on the first tick) and since when does fort save allow for no damage instead of half? I thought they have no saves because they do lower damage than direct spells and take longer for full effect.

What's the reason for this? I heard SSG didn't like hybrids having spell AOE but build diversity and choice of options is fun, but the change made the spell unusuable for anyone but conjuration casters with endgame DCs....
Correct. It is now useless. Just have to take something else.
 
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