Controversial: The DDO Parser, is it time?

[Guntango]

On an "intended" to be cooperative game, parser is just a dumb idea... useful tool that is almost always used to divide instead of conciliate people.

Tell us you don't think your dps is very good without telling us your dps isn't very good.

 

[Fhrek]

Tell us you don't think your dps is very good without telling us your dps isn't very good.

I just play solo... because time/work/family constrains... so...

But, when used to play in group was always the tank or healer a.k.a cooperative characters... DPS never was enticing to me.

 

[Alco]

This whole discussion reminds me of the old "link your BB" days...

 

[Guntango]

This whole discussion reminds me of the old "link your BB" days...

portal beater

 

[Blunt Hackett]

I can't say whether it's too toxic for MMOs, but I chose that because of the existing climate for DDO specifically. I can't see it being beneficial enough to warrant risking player retention.

 

[Mordenkainen]

The only way I can tell of my DPS is any good now is if I can steal aggro from a solid tank.

I have yet to meet a tank that can hold off aggro on me without spamming intimidate, saying a lot for a THF.

 

[Guntango]

Nothing like idea paralysis to boost membership.

 

[PraetorPlato]

The only way I can tell of my DPS is any good now is if I can steal aggro from a solid tank.

I have yet to meet a tank that can hold off aggro on me without spamming intimidate, saying a lot for a THF.

If a DPS can't pull aggro without threat reduction, something's very wrong—tank threat has been super outscaled.

 

[Guntango]

The only way I can tell of my DPS is any good now is if I can steal aggro from a solid tank.

I have yet to meet a tank that can hold off aggro on me without spamming intimidate, saying a lot for a THF.

Stealing agro from a tank just means you’re a bad dps, not that you’ve got a lot of dps.

 

[rabidfox]

The only way I can tell of my DPS is any good now is if I can steal aggro from a solid tank.

I have yet to meet a tank that can hold off aggro on me without spamming intimidate, saying a lot for a THF.

Agro management means nothing and isn't any indicator of DPS. I've run utility builds that are low damage that can pull agro because I didn't use threat reduction. It's quite likely a parser could tell you that your damage and threat reduction are both poorly setup.

 

[Fhrek]

The only way I can tell of my DPS is any good now is if I can steal aggro from a solid tank.

You must make lots of success on groups and Raids.

Do you really think it is the right way to play?

 

[nix]

I know you may be thinking, why would a parser be controversial?

First let's define what a Parser is: It's a script that (usually) attaches to your client (much like custom UI's that the majority of you here use) and that calculates things like DPS by each player, Damage Taken by each player, Heals done to another player by each player, overall Damage done etc. etc.

I swear to you, I have seen entire guilds -decades old- get decimated because of 'the Parser'.

I have seen people quit over 'the Parser'.

I have heard the most elitist, stuck-up, and rabidly compeitive players and guilds scream at each other over voice coms because of 'the Parse' or 'the Parser'

But...

It would bring the game's compeititive ruler to the next level.

Who cares about R10 completions when everyone knows your DPS stick is leagues beyond any other player on your server.

It reveals all and raises those few deserving to the status of gods and lays low those charlatans and pretenders to the depths of shame.

Gentlemen, let me tell you. It's the most sublime form of ego stroking you will ever experience in a video game.

Is DDO ready for a unofficial/official parser?

Heck no ddo isn't ready ... you can't even get a persistent chat or combat log fer cryin out loud

 

[saekee]

I would be curious about a broad range of data in a quest of which DPS is just a part.

The quest log shows kill count which is stupid honestly.

 

[Bjond]

The problem with toxicity is usually tied to the immediacy of the data; ie. the kill window WILL does in fact drive people to play "oddly" in order to inflate their perceived success to a group.

The original parsers were off-line post-fight analysis tools. They were absolutely invaluable in successfully completing raids back in the early days of EQ1. We used them to setup optimal healer rotations and estimate time-to-kill (and thus if the raid could survive that long). If the TTK was too long, we'd look for ways to shorten it or live longer.

We'd also use it to identify the strong and weak DPS'ers. The result of landing on the weak side wasn't shame. It meant we'd look at your character and then run raids specifically intended to gear you up.

IMHO, just keep it as an offline analysis tool (ie. not an "official integrated parse window") and the likelihood of it negatively disrupting play or chat will be minimal. This also makes it easier for the devs: just dump the log to a file and some player will write a plug-in for ACT or another parser to actually make the data usable. And, unlike kill-counts or an integrated parser, no one will know about your parse unless you share it.

 

[Alco]

portal beater

Yes, that one too

 

[PraetorPlato]

The problem with toxicity is usually tied to the immediacy of the data; ie. the kill window WILL does in fact drive people to play "oddly" in order to inflate their perceived success to a group.

The original parsers were off-line post-fight analysis tools. They were absolutely invaluable in successfully completing raids back in the early days of EQ1. We used them to setup optimal healer rotations and estimate time-to-kill (and thus if the raid could survive that long). If the TTK was too long, we'd look for ways to shorten it or live longer.

We'd also use it to identify the strong and weak DPS'ers. The result of landing on the weak side wasn't shame. It meant we'd look at your character and then run raids specifically intended to gear you up.

IMHO, just keep it as an offline analysis tool (ie. not an "official integrated parse window") and the likelihood of it negatively disrupting play or chat will be minimal. This also makes it easier for the devs: just dump the log to a file and some player will write a plug-in for ACT or another parser to actually make the data usable. And, unlike kill-counts or an integrated parser, no one will know about your parse unless you share it.

yeah, this seems totally fine to me too. Even just a customizable kobold.

 

[Mordenkainen]

The problem with toxicity is usually tied to the immediacy of the data; ie. the kill window WILL does in fact drive people to play "oddly" in order to inflate their perceived success to a group.

The original parsers were off-line post-fight analysis tools. They were absolutely invaluable in successfully completing raids back in the early days of EQ1. We used them to setup optimal healer rotations and estimate time-to-kill (and thus if the raid could survive that long). If the TTK was too long, we'd look for ways to shorten it or live longer.

We'd also use it to identify the strong and weak DPS'ers. The result of landing on the weak side wasn't shame. It meant we'd look at your character and then run raids specifically intended to gear you up.

IMHO, just keep it as an offline analysis tool (ie. not an "official integrated parse window") and the likelihood of it negatively disrupting play or chat will be minimal. This also makes it easier for the devs: just dump the log to a file and some player will write a plug-in for ACT or another parser to actually make the data usable. And, unlike kill-counts or an integrated parser, no one will know about your parse unless you share it.

 

[Reaped and Ravaged]

Killing purples in the IoD wilderness is good enough. When you can kill them in 1/3 the time you've improved.

 

[Neurik]

You must make lots of success on groups and Raids.

Do you really think it is the right way to play?

He doesn't raid, per his earlier threads, he just organizes them across all the servers. So I guess he is pulling aggro from the "tank" in regular quests

 

[Bjond]

The only way I can tell of my DPS is any good now is if I can steal aggro from a solid tank.

This "test" does not work. Imbues still aren't effected by -threat and it's not pure total damage to steal; if a single hit is "big enough" you can flip something even if you're the lowest total damage dealer. I suspect other factors, too, but they're hard and tedious to test; eg. low defenses, distance, level, lack of movement, etc..

As an example, I have a couple ranged. One is a grade-A thrower that auto-attacks around 10~12k per hit. One is a repurposed HC 1st life INQ with autos in the 2~3K'ish range. Both have -80 ranged threat. The INQ will rip it right off a tank and it's doing about HALF the total auto-attack damage of the thrower. The Big-D thrower is about 5~10% imbue. The INQ is about 80~90% imbue.

As another test/comparison between the two (cuz I was curious), my thrower can solo kill Zulkis (after Irk) before the raid finishes killing either Rudus or Gish. My INQ trying the same trick can't kill Zulkis before the raid finishes both Rudus and Gish and turns to Zulkis.

Basically, just ignore agro-rips. They're nearly meaningless unless you have Defense enabled. The +threat from that is enough to rip it from almost anyone even with ultra-low damage.