Cursed Maelstrom potential bug

FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted

Well-known member
Bug Report Number:
341330
Cursed maelstrom has a very very low proc rate. it is so low that it is common to fight bosses and it only proc a couple times at most. with this proc rate, it is impossible to maintain any debuffs, thus this effect is almost worthless. I'm not sure if the proc rate is intended, but it feels really really bad for a raid exclusive effect. I'm also unsure if it should be proccing quell and sap as those effects are not LGS debuffs, plus they don't work on bosses (sap doesn't at least), making part of the procs useless is raids
 
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FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted

Well-known member
after talking with some more people, old cursed maelstrom didn't proc quell/sap, so those are new effects. i don't think this is good because both of these procs are completely worthless
 
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FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted

Well-known member
after more testing and talking, it turns out that when steelstar increased the droprate, he also added sap and quell to the list of debuffs. testing shows that overall proc rate went up but the lgs procrate (only useful procs) stayed exactly the same. so in other words, the "buff" to the proc added useless junk that doesn't buff it at all
 
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Tonquin

of Lightning Hammer fame!
after more testing and talking, it turns out that when steelstar increased the droprate, he also added sap and quell to the list of debuffs. testing shows that overall proc rate went up but the lgs procrate (only useful procs) stayed exactly the same. so in other words, the "buff" to the proc added useless junk that doesn't buff it at all
Great news, this is untrue! I just took a look at this effect and can confirm that when Steelstar raised the proc rate, there were no other changes to effect availability as far as I can see. Quell was added to this effect suite in 2019 by yours truly during the Sharn development cycle before release, and since then there's been absolutely no changes beyond the proc rate increasing with U66.
 

FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted

Well-known member
Great news, this is untrue! I just took a look at this effect and can confirm that when Steelstar raised the proc rate, there were no other changes to effect availability as far as I can see. Quell was added to this effect suite in 2019 by yours truly during the Sharn development cycle before release, and since then there's been absolutely no changes beyond the proc rate increasing with U66.
any chance the ability could be fixed to not be useless, upping proc rate or removing quell and sap would be great as those procs are useless :)
 
Great news, this is untrue! I just took a look at this effect and can confirm that when Steelstar raised the proc rate, there were no other changes to effect availability as far as I can see. Quell was added to this effect suite in 2019 by yours truly during the Sharn development cycle before release, and since then there's been absolutely no changes beyond the proc rate increasing with U66.
Hi Tonquin, I had a couple thoughts on this -

First off, unfortunately Quell IS a very niche effect that is also not effective on bosses. Moreover, I cannot think of a single time I have seen this effect trigger on trash mobs, to greater effect than other cc. It might be different if the effect duration were made to be much longer, but in my experience by the time I'm hitting a divine caster, it's dead in seconds anyways. I don't think it adds any value to a weapon effect that can debuff a target in so much stronger ways.

Secondly, as it stands, any class I have seen use this effect cannot maintain more than one stack of Dust/Ash, and maybe 50% uptime on Ooze. Was the intention of the effect to be used in conjunction with 3+ other people to fully stack all debuffs? I'm not against coordinated play at all, but at that point it makes more sense for players to bring something from IoD and debuff that way.

I'm sure this topic has been touched on before, but with FoM raid loot having the effect revisited, I think a lot of players would like the "all-in-one debuffer" weapon effect to function as advertised, instead of having additional hoops to jump through and as much RNG involved making the effects actually stick.

Edit: Another alternative would be to keep the "rarity" of the effects, but to have them stackable or in some way unique to that weapon effect. Even something as simple as damage on hit, to keep pace with bone weapons that are outputting a ton more comparatively.
 
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Mindos

CHAOTIC EVIL
Does rate of attack make a difference? Would a TWF or a handwrap user get more out of this effect from hitting more often?
 

Tonquin

of Lightning Hammer fame!
any chance the ability could be fixed to not be useless, upping proc rate or removing quell and sap would be great as those procs are useless :)
We actually did double the proc rate for U66! As far as what's actually in the proc, Quell is there for its synergies with Accursed Flame, but I'm not quite sure where you're getting "sap" from as its not on the list of debuffs possible from this mutation.
 

FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted

Well-known member
We actually did double the proc rate for U66! As far as what's actually in the proc, Quell is there for its synergies with Accursed Flame, but I'm not quite sure where you're getting "sap" from as its not on the list of debuffs possible from this mutation.
i must have been using another effect that gives sap and i didnt know it. personally i think quell can should be removed as the extra damage on accursed is non scaling d6's of damage. I think even with the "double" procrate its too low. i cant keep up 1 stack of a debuff with a swf with a fire over morgrave weapon. it is simply not a good effect right now. I think if procrate was 10-15% it would be good
 

Sowahh

Member
I agree that the Quell should be removed from the Cursed Maelstrom. It simply does nothing on all the Raid weapons from FoM, and next to nothing (DPS change within margin of error) for weapons from THTH.

Alternatively, if you're very fond of that Quell effect, perhaps place it as a part of the Accursed Flame effect, with a proc rate of 2.5 or 5%? I think that would make much more sense, as this would basically make all weapons with Cursed Maelstrom a viable choice.

Have in mind that currently we have 10 weapons with Cursed Maelstrom, but only 4 of those have Accursed Flame.
 

FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted

Well-known member
another find people have found is the quell procs 50% of the time the ability procs. so it has been datamined the proc rate is 5%, so that means 2.5% of the time its a quell and 2.5% of the time its a random LGS debuff. given the fact that most LGS effects have 50%-100% chance to proc, this seems a bit out of whack and definitely not a good ability
 
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Tonquin

of Lightning Hammer fame!
another find people have found is the quell procs 50% of the time the ability procs. so it has been datamined the proc rate is 5%, so that means 2.5% of the time its a quell and 2.5% of the time its a random LGS debuff. given the fact that most LGS effects have 50%-100% chance to proc, this seems a bit out of whack and definitely not a good ability
I'm not quite sure where you got the information about Quell being picked 50% of the time, as our Compound "Pick One" effects do not actually support weighting on a technical level. It has the same chance of being picked as the other options within the mutation.
 

FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted

Well-known member
I'm not quite sure where you got the information about Quell being picked 50% of the time, as our Compound "Pick One" effects do not actually support weighting on a technical level. It has the same chance of being picked as the other options within the mutation.
well even if the data people have found is wrong, the ability is still bad. can the proc rate be upped and quell removed from the pool? the FoM raid weaps have no synergy with quell so there is no reason for them to quell. just add improved quelling strikes the the too hot to handle weapons and increase the proc rate and its good
 
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Kimbere

Well-known member
I'm not quite sure where you got the information about Quell being picked 50% of the time, as our Compound "Pick One" effects do not actually support weighting on a technical level. It has the same chance of being picked as the other options within the mutation.
Did you test this in-game to confirm it's working as expected?

This wouldn't be the first game, nor even the first time in DDO, where a halo bug caused a RNG type function to unintentionally favor an unintended option (i.e. the first or last item on the list, etc.)

For the record, I'm not saying it is broken. I haven't personally tested the proc rates so I have no idea if it is or isn't. I'm just pointing out that just because the code in a given function looks correct doesn't mean that code in some other part of the game isn't stomping all over it unintentionally. We've seen that happen too many times to rule out the possibility without verifying via in-game testing of the proc rates.

It's a shame DDO doesn't have better combat logging options. It'd be awesome if the DDO client had an option that would let you write the combat logs to a local/temp file so we could run parsers against it. We could probably help the devs find/fix so many more bugs if it did.
 
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Putti

Well-known member
Why is it called Quell anyway? Shouldn't it be Intercession? Quell is just a type of creature while the effect they produce is called Intercession
 

Glargfest

Active member
Why is it called Quell anyway? Shouldn't it be Intercession? Quell is just a type of creature while the effect they produce is called Intercession
I believe intercession only applies to divine spells while quell applies to all spells?
 
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