Dwarf Tanky DPS (or maybe DPSy Tank?) with self heals

[Grunndi]

Been on this build for a while now. Nothing too groundbreaking here, this is just what you get when you want to raid but you’re tired of trying to find a tank, or a healer, but you also want to keep some half decent DPS to be able to run things solo too. Druid Bears might be able to do this better, but I personally hate animal forms, just not my jam. Also you get to be an Axe and Board Dwarf which has been scientifically proven to be the most awesomely cool set up ever. The way I’ve got things set up you do need ALL the extra APs and EDPs, any fewer and you start losing useful things very quickly, so fair warning there.

Pros:
-Axe and Board Dwarf
-Tanky enough for low skull raids and r10s as is, can rearrange gear and APs/EDs for higher skull raiding if needed.
-Moderate DPS, well played meta DPSers will leave you in the dust, but can compete with lesser or poorly played builds
-Great at holding aggro in LH/r1 where intim tanks can struggle.
-Good self heals, can keep the party up too when needed.
-Pally Saves, immunities, and instant greater resto (remove disease)

Cons:
-Does not play well with other tanks, lots of hate increase plus decent DPS means you WILL grab aggro. So not good for high skull raids.
-No real CC, just Adren Trips and Vorpal Stuns
-You will start to look at intim/block tanks in low diff raids a little funny. Whaddayah mean all you do is tank?!? And you need heals?!? And you lose aggro in LH every time a DPSer gets a few big hits?!? Maybe just go sit in a corner and count pebbles until the raid is done.


So what’s it look like then? Here’s self buffed reaper stats, you can see everything I used in the buff bar (no yugo pots or Lasting MP/USP/PRR/MRR pots were used). Also no boosts and no stacks, so add 20PRR/MRR and 75MP (plus 50 more with prowess swap) in most cases. Not shown is 200% strikethrough, 953% melee threat increase, 114% standing Fort bypass, 19% Dodge.

And here’s Marketplace stats with only ship buffs running for those who like that:

And gear. I have a few swaps, usually trinkets, to get absorbs or Heart in for different stuff as needed. This is my typical set up though. I have put curses on everything but didn’t get anything super useful besides +1 Att/Dam on my armor.

So 5pc Dino, 4pc Winter, 3pc Devils Dance.
I’m very excited for the new HP Aug set, and I’ll be doing a little swaperoo
Direbear -> Lindals
Pendant of the sky -> Raptor Neck
Add HP set Augs to Eyes/Neck/Trinket

EDIT: I have since made the swap above and I absolutely love it, can get comfortably above 5k hp outside reaper and with regular party buffs (meaning no Arti PEI) I’ve seen my HP hit just below 6.8k. The Raptor neck proc is amazing for a TYWA build, and I’m far too lazy to swap necks constantly for the proc, so I have to build that item into my sets.

Filigrees are (all rares):
2x Soulweaver/Splendid 2 Con
1x Soulweaver Pos Power
1x Splendid Pos Power
2x Grandfathers/Snakebite 2 Con
2x Touch of Grace/Purity 20 Hamp
1x Touch of Grace 10 Hamp
5x Dread (MP, MP, Tactics, Str, PRR)

I use 1 swap with 5xSanctified Fervor and 5xProwess, and another swap with Max Charisma filis along with an alchemical Charisma shield with Festive Charisma and Litany (since swapping breaks my dino set) slotted for trance. I'm at 86 Charisma with my trance gear. I don't bother swapping artifacts, don't really use yugo pots, and I only have a +12 Charisma Augment so could potentially go to 96, but that's a lot of work for 2 extra Att/Dam.

Feats:
Power Attack
THF Line
Imp. Crit Slashing
Quicken
Toughness
Overwhelming Crit
DS
Epic Toughness
Perfect THF
Epic DR
Deific Warding
Epic Fortitude
Scion of Celestia
Shield Mastery Specialty

Abilities and Skills:
Max Con, rest in Str and Charisma.
Max Heal and Intim, whatever for the rest (UMD, Jump, Tumble)

AP set up:

Whaaaaat…? Axe and Board and not a single point in Vanguard?!? Yep. For my purposes KotC is better, great DPS tree and gets me 60 Hamp. Like I said before, you need all the extra APs or you lose something good. TYWA lets me go Con primary and still keep a decent Damage Mod. I need to be able to cast so I prefer going heavy into Defender than trying to rage from Fury. Only 9 Action boosts so in most raids I’ll use both haste and power boost. Everyone knows Divine Sacrifice is a short cooldown +1 Crit multi attack, but the temp SP are actually super useful for stretching your blue bar out through longer raids. Renewal and Trance become free and Prayer gets way cheaper.

ED set up:

For a while I was switching between this layout and an LD T5, Fury T4, EA T3 set up that was a bit higher damage. But this set up works just fine and I kept running out of plat switching all my points every day. EA wings are something I really just can’t live without and the passive heal aura hits me for 2-3k. Renewal tics for 1.4k and wings heal for about 1.5k. LoH are a full heal in lower diffs (6.9k outside reaper), but don’t regenerate so tend to be for emergencies or helping other people out.

With the crappy Crit range on a Daxe, Adren and Fury moment do a lot of the heavy lifting for DPS. Having Boulders Might and Exalted Smite means I always have a +2 Crit multi attack ready and can keep using Adren during the epic moment.

DPS is decent. The screenshot below is from an LH Fires solo run I did, so just self buffs and debuffs. With a full raid party of buffs and debuffs I’ve seen Adren Crits hit 175k.

And PuGing some LH THTH as the Tank.

So yeah, that’s about it. Works great for r10 questing and low skull raids and can pull its weight for kills and boss DPS. And since it’s fully capable of Tanking, Healing, and has some DPS that’s means it’s pretty good for soloing or short-manning raids. You can see some of the stuff I’ve done here:

https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/short-man-shortmans.3534/

 

[mikarddo]

Been on this build for a while now. Nothing too groundbreaking here, this is just what you get when you want to raid but you’re tired of trying to find a tank, or a healer, but you also want to keep some half decent DPS to be able to run things solo too.

Very nice writeup, thank you for sharing.

So, 2k'ish less hp, 100ish less prr/mrr and 500% less threat multiplier (but much more from dps, so that does not matter much) than a full out defensive tank? As you write, still very doable to tank with but still nice to have an idea of what kind of compromise you are making

 

[Mand O'Lin]

Very nice writeup, thank you for sharing.

So, 2k'ish less hp, 100ish less prr/mrr and 500% less threat multiplier (but much more from dps, so that does not matter much) than a full out defensive tank? As you write, still very doable to tank with but still nice to have an idea of what kind of compromise you are making

don't forget 300+ less AC.

 

[PraetorPlato]

Very nice setup! The main thing I’m curious about is if you find that this is better for two mans than an off healer pure tank+heavy dps, or whether it’s mostly for solos and flexibility at cap (which sound awesome as well)

@grunndii, curious if you have a rough spell power breakdown-I want to get my tank past the 1k barrier for renewal ticks, not very specced into it at the moment (assuming 2k is a non crit?)

@mikar, closer to either 200 PRR or 3k hp.

 

[mikarddo]

@mikar, closer to either 200 PRR or 3k hp.

How do you get a Pally tank to 9.3k hp with only self buffs and not even using yugo pots?

Mine is around 8k hp (would maybe be 8.3k with full reaper points) - but nowhere near 9.3k hp.

I would really love to see a screenshot + writeup for a pure pally tank that selfbuffed only without yugo put can go above 9k hp. (a barb tank, sure, but Pally?)

 

[PraetorPlato]

How do you get a Pally tank to 9.3k hp with only self buffs and not even using yugo pots?

Mine is around 8k hp (would maybe be 8.3k with full reaper points) - but nowhere near 9.3k hp.

I would really love to see a screenshot + writeup for a pure pally tank that selfbuffed only without yugo put can go above 9k hp. (a barb tank, sure, but Pally?)

To clarify—pally tank would be more PRR, other tanks would be more HP. Maxed pally tank should sit over 8k w/o buffs, 8.2-8.3k with the buffs in screenshot, and comfortably over 600 prr, or a big LGS set with substantially more HP at the cost of prr. I don't have a writeup, but Dom has a dojo screenshot of 7.2k hp on a fighter from a year ago; pally gets around 300 less HP (depending on # of toughness) natively, and new gear/tomes/everything is slightly better, so in reaper, that's 8.7k ish before tensor's on a pally, or higher on a fighter.

Realistically though, a pally tank will be heavier on the PRR—614+ should not be an issue.

(none of this should be taken as saying Grunndi's build is bad—those numbers are higher than I'd have expected for this hybrid, and it looks awesome!)

 

[Grunndi]

Very nice setup! The main thing I’m curious about is if you find that this is better for two mans than an off healer pure tank+heavy dps, or whether it’s mostly for solos and flexibility at cap (which sound awesome as well)

No that’s probably a much better set up tbh. But I personally just love playing as a chunky little dwarf Pally bowling ball. And the idea of a couple dwarven goons drunkenly crashing through raids is just good fun.

@grunndii, curious if you have a rough spell power breakdown-I want to get my tank past the 1k barrier for renewal ticks, not very specced into it at the moment (assuming 2k is a non crit?)

Just went in to test and it looks like it's hitting me for closer to 1400 on average with crits around 3k (oops, kinda went off memory for those numbers since renewal is a little annoying to test, edited my original post, other numbers are accurate though). That's with 301 Hamp and 826 pos power (in wilderness, obv. outside reaper).

I use Eye of Lam augment for implement bonus, Ins Pos Power from neck, Qual Potency from eyes, Max heal skill/Heal Augment (92 heal in the market unbuffed), 15 Exceptional Power on dino shield, get some from Defender tree and EA destiny, and I actually use the 30 pos power epic stance rather than the Hamp one (for self heals it's about equal, actual healers already overheal me by a mile, and the extra pos power makes my aura/heals hit the party harder), 25 Alchemical USP from rem pot. I don't think I used it in that SS but I keep a stack of +25 alchemical pos power pots for more stressful stuff (3min duration is a little lame though), also you have to unlock them at specific favor vendors. I've got my 3 Fisto lives, but only 1 morninglord so room for improvement there lol. 40 from Celestia. 25 from Dino Set.

I will say that having the heal aura I can ruthlessly judge other people's Hamp, and just about every pure tank I've stood next to has a good bit lower Hamp than me (barbs likely being an exception, but I don't really see as many of them these days). I don't have the 60 Aasimar get, but that's a wash since KotC gives 60.

Filigrees are really where you can fine tune a mixed build like this, and everyone has to find the right balance for themselves. Dreadbringer 5pc and 4x 2Con are kind of self explanatory (the soulweaver part gets 20 pos power). Then 3 touch of grace filis get me 55Hamp and 20 pos power (and some MRR and spell points), and the extra soulweaver and splendid get me 49 pos power and +1 heal caster level (which does affect Renewal, EA Aura caster levels I have tried and failed to understand lol).

I think that's about it.

 

[PraetorPlato]

Thanks, that's super helpful. IIRC, my hamp is in the mid-200s (LOH for 6k ish?). Fils are more tank-oriented, but I might try to respec or swap to pick up a bit better self healing for no-healer situations. 826 positive sp is a lot, I'm only in the mid 400s.

 

[Col Kurtz]

Love Dwarves so I took a look at yours here...Very Nice

questions about how much we can expect without all the racial PL's ?
r now I'm hitting about 240 base prr/ 150 mrr, around 2200 hp's (w 2 racial PL's only)
(using 5 pc dread, and 3 pc summer)

but yea, I'm seeing the builds w all the past lives popping super high stat #s like your 96 con> alot of that has to be from all those PL's I imagine? I have +8 stat tome and (guessing cause I'm TR'n r now) but I think im getting like mid-high 60's in con at this point

 

[PraetorPlato]

PL HP is a smidge over 500 from a first lifer to a complete char with a 1.7 HP scalar, I think this build is rocking a 1.5 scalar, so call it just under 500. Of that, 6 is increased con, most of the rest is epic PLs. On my first life pure tank, I sit at 100 con in town unbuffed, I think this build is about 14 lower con (I don't have reaper hat and usually run Yugo), so I'd aim for 88.

The rest of the HP difference is reaper points. Full RP stepping into reaper is a 932 difference in base HP, so with a 1.5 scalar, that's about 1400 max HP. Assuming you have enough RP for the key GB cores, you'll be ~1000 behind, for a total of 1.5k hp lower than this build, so I'd aim for 4800 HP on a first life version of this build.

PRR wise, I'd need to spend some time messing with the boosted gear on the build to figure it out—it's at least a 45 PRR difference from PLs alone, probably substantially more.

I also don't think this build really works on a first lifer, because you can't get throw your weight around on with 31 SD (and also 4800 HP with ~350 prr is low enough that you won't feel super beefy beyond LH raids). With that said, 3 pc summer could def be improved to get better stats.

 

[Col Kurtz]

thx..yea the summer set is for the MRR..kinda lazy on farming to speficly

yea im in between 1st lifer and completionist 22 EPl's , 2 racial, 8 heroic. (+28 reper points) I think ill be closer to the 4500 hps this time.. i was at 3500 last life ,but didnt focus on con to much in the trees that time.

Thanks, and have fun out there!

 

[Grunndi]

I'm seeing the builds w all the past lives popping super high stat #s like your 96 con> alot of that has to be from all those PL's I imagine?

PraetorPlato covered most of it, just figured I’d drop this breakdown for reference on how to get those high Con numbers.

Only 6 Con comes directly from PLs (WF, Dwarf, Comp., Racial Comp). But the extra racial APs often free up extra points too. Farming out all the right gear, clickies, consumables, augments, etc. also isn’t directly related to having lots of PLs, but is obviously something that most people build up over time.

My Con is 96 in town with just ship buffs:
1 WF PL
1 Dwarf PL
2 Comp
2 Racial Comp
20 Base
8 Level ups
15 enhancement (Dino ring)
6 Insight
3 Quality
3 Artifact (Devils dance set)
2 Profane (dino set or augment)
2 Exceptional (dino weapon)
2 Festive (augment)
2 Reaper ability helm
2 Ship Buffs
6 Sacred Defense stance t3
2 Enhancements (dwarf pure tanks prob have at least 2 more here)
8 Filligrees (again a pure tank can get more, I have a bunch devoted to DPS, Healing power, and Heal Amp)
1 Reaper Core
8 Tome
= 96

Then in my buffed pic you have:
4 Reaper tree Con
4 Primal Scream
2 Lasting pot (remnant trade in)
4 Tenser’s (annoying to keep up permanently but necessary for getting big numbers for your screenshot )

And some extra possibilities not in that screenshot:
2 Yugo Pot
8 Enhanced bloodrage (Raptor Neck or Labrythine Edge)
2 Bard buffs
2 Cursed Item

There are some other ways to get your Con quite a bit higher but those aren’t really useful for this build (raging/Madstone stuff) or practical (cleric turn buffs).


So in summary, the crazy high numbers you see on some screenshots are partly due to PLs, extra APs, and reaper points. But a bigger part is the accumulated game knowledge on how to squeeze out every last tiny boost.

 

[Sheikra]

Man, I really like this build and want to give it a try, but I'm at 97/98 AP, and I feel like there is not a single extra point. Either you lose 10% hp, capstone, 10% atk speed boost, or con-to-dmg. Thoughts on how you would run it with one less AP? Or should I just wait until the 2nd universal AP tome hits the store and then run it haha!

 

[Grunndi]

Man, I really like this build and want to give it a try, but I'm at 97/98 AP, and I feel like there is not a single extra point. Either you lose 10% hp, capstone, 10% atk speed boost, or con-to-dmg. Thoughts on how you would run it with one less AP? Or should I just wait until the 2nd universal AP tome hits the store and then run it haha!

I honestly don’t think you’d notice a huge difference dropping a point in haste boost. It feels icky, but since Adren makes up such a large part of this builds overall DPS, you end up losing considerably less than 10%.

 

[Taebrythn]

I honestly don’t think you’d notice a huge difference dropping a point in haste boost. It feels icky, but since Adren makes up such a large part of this builds overall DPS, you end up losing considerably less than 10%.

So I was curious what is your dino weapon breakdown and your shield breakdown because the picture does not show what you chose. is there also anything you swap to that is not shown in the picture. thanks for answering.

 

[zandoe]

The coming "balance" on EA is a good thing for a builds like yours. Yes you don't have wings or healing aura but at the same time you will net dps, hp and defenses and get no fail cc from sentinel shield throw. Selfhjealing will be tiny bit more annoying, true, but you don't need it.

 

[Grunndi]

So I was curious what is your dino weapon breakdown and your shield breakdown because the picture does not show what you chose. is there also anything you swap to that is not shown in the picture. thanks for answering.

For Dino crafting I have:
Silver Bypass, Chaotic bypass, Exceptional Con, and Dust on the axe.
Acid Dot, Spell cost reduction, Exceptional Spellpower, and Profane DS on the shield.

I have lots of swaps for different things (clickies, search, bluff, absorbs, Heart of Suulo, Cold Shield, etc.), but the only things I used for that picture were weapon/shield swaps for trance and sanctified fervor, and a good hope clickie.

The coming "balance" on EA is a good thing for a builds like yours. Yes you don't have wings or healing aura but at the same time you will net dps, hp and defenses and get no fail cc from sentinel shield throw. Selfhjealing will be tiny bit more annoying, true, but you don't need it.

I’ve been mulling over a few possibilities if they gut EA. I’ll likely swap to LD or DC, and/or put a few more points into Fury/US. To be honest I think I’m going to miss the wings more than anything. The heal aura is super convenient, not only for me but for other melees, but oh well.

 

[kmoustakas]

Been on this build for a while now. Nothing too groundbreaking here, this is just what you get when you want to raid but you’re tired of trying to find a tank, or a healer, but you also want to keep some half decent DPS to be able to run things solo too. Druid Bears might be able to do this better, but I personally hate animal forms, just not my jam. Also you get to be an Axe and Board Dwarf which has been scientifically proven to be the most awesomely cool set up ever. The way I’ve got things set up you do need ALL the extra APs and EDPs, any fewer and you start losing useful things very quickly, so fair warning there.

Pros:
-Axe and Board Dwarf
-Tanky enough for low skull raids and r10s as is, can rearrange gear and APs/EDs for higher skull raiding if needed.
-Moderate DPS, well played meta DPSers will leave you in the dust, but can compete with lesser or poorly played builds
-Great at holding aggro in LH/r1 where intim tanks can struggle.
-Good self heals, can keep the party up too when needed.
-Pally Saves, immunities, and instant greater resto (remove disease)

Cons:
-Does not play well with other tanks, lots of hate increase plus decent DPS means you WILL grab aggro. So not good for high skull raids.
-No real CC, just Adren Trips and Vorpal Stuns
-You will start to look at intim/block tanks in low diff raids a little funny. Whaddayah mean all you do is tank?!? And you need heals?!? And you lose aggro in LH every time a DPSer gets a few big hits?!? Maybe just go sit in a corner and count pebbles until the raid is done.


So what’s it look like then? Here’s self buffed reaper stats, you can see everything I used in the buff bar (no yugo pots or Lasting MP/USP/PRR/MRR pots were used). Also no boosts and no stacks, so add 20PRR/MRR and 75MP (plus 50 more with prowess swap) in most cases. Not shown is 200% strikethrough, 953% melee threat increase, 114% standing Fort bypass, 19% Dodge.

And here’s Marketplace stats with only ship buffs running for those who like that:

And gear. I have a few swaps, usually trinkets, to get absorbs or Heart in for different stuff as needed. This is my typical set up though. I have put curses on everything but didn’t get anything super useful besides +1 Att/Dam on my armor.

So 5pc Dino, 4pc Winter, 3pc Devils Dance.
I’m very excited for the new HP Aug set, and I’ll be doing a little swaperoo
Direbear -> Lindals
Pendant of the sky -> Raptor Neck
Add HP set Augs to Eyes/Neck/Trinket


Filigrees are (all rares):
2x Soulweaver/Splendid 2 Con
1x Soulweaver Pos Power
1x Splendid Pos Power
2x Grandfathers/Snakebite 2 Con
2x Touch of Grace/Purity 20 Hamp
1x Touch of Grace 10 Hamp
5x Dread (MP, MP, Tactics, Str, PRR)

I use 1 swap with 5xSanctified Fervor and 5xProwess, and another swap with Max Charisma filis along with an alchemical Charisma shield with Festive Charisma and Litany (since swapping breaks my dino set) slotted for trance. I'm at 86 Charisma with my trance gear. I don't bother swapping artifacts, don't really use yugo pots, and I only have a +12 Charisma Augment so could potentially go to 96, but that's a lot of work for 2 extra Att/Dam.

Feats:
Power Attack
THF Line
Imp. Crit Slashing
Quicken
Toughness
Overwhelming Crit
DS
Epic Toughness
Perfect THF
Epic DR
Deific Warding
Epic Fortitude
Scion of Celestia
Shield Mastery Specialty

Abilities and Skills:
Max Con, rest in Str and Charisma.
Max Heal and Intim, whatever for the rest (UMD, Jump, Tumble)

AP set up:

Whaaaaat…? Axe and Board and not a single point in Vanguard?!? Yep. For my purposes KotC is better, great DPS tree and gets me 60 Hamp. Like I said before, you need all the extra APs or you lose something good. TYWA lets me go Con primary and still keep a decent Damage Mod. I need to be able to cast so I prefer going heavy into Defender than trying to rage from Fury. Only 9 Action boosts so in most raids I’ll use both haste and power boost. Everyone knows Divine Sacrifice is a short cooldown +1 Crit multi attack, but the temp SP are actually super useful for stretching your blue bar out through longer raids. Renewal and Trance become free and Prayer gets way cheaper.

ED set up:

For a while I was switching between this layout and an LD T5, Fury T4, EA T3 set up that was a bit higher damage. But this set up works just fine and I kept running out of plat switching all my points every day. EA wings are something I really just can’t live without and the passive heal aura hits me for 2-3k. Renewal tics for 1.4k and wings heal for about 1.5k. LoH are a full heal in lower diffs (6.9k outside reaper), but don’t regenerate so tend to be for emergencies or helping other people out.

With the crappy Crit rage on a Daxe, Adren and Fury moment do a lot of the heavy lifting for DPS. Having Boulders Might and Exalted Smite means I always have a +2 Crit multi attack ready and can keep using Adren during the epic moment.

DPS is decent. The screenshot below is from an LH Fires solo run I did, so just self buffs and debuffs. With a full raid party of buffs and debuffs I’ve seen Adren Crits hit 175k.

So yeah, that’s about it. Works great for r10 questing and can pull its weight for kills and boss DPS. And since it’s fully capable of Tanking, Healing, and has some DPS that’s means it’s pretty good for soloing or short-manning raids. You can see some of the stuff I’ve done here:

https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/short-man-shortmans.3534/

I love the idea, I've been actually contemplating this for a while. What stopped me was the EIGHTEEN (18) racial points

 

[Col Kurtz]

is there a Base melee power breakdown some one can link? /non buffed/ I think im around 245, at lvl 32 ...without the 3 piece Vecna set (but farming that chain seems like a waste of time except for nibbling a few reaper points and the saga reward..barely see any named drops)

 

[Grunndi]

Ooof… umm I def can’t give that exact breakdown off the top of my head. I’ll take a look after work. But it’s basically Set bonuses, ED cores, KotC stuff, THF line, Filligrees, rem tome, reaper tree, MP augment, and myth/reap bonuses