Help me Stay Indeee Pendent

[Tomeraider]

Hi. I haven't posted on the forums, but I've been brewing a few ideas for solo characters for a few years (I enjoy passively grinding things out without being rushed.) I've rarely made it to level 20, but I have all the favor rewards, but my gear is a little mid. I've had a lot of fun with my newest creature, but I've started to struggle while acting out my design. Let me run down everything for you.

My plans:
First life
Starting at 7
Drow
Dark Ap. (Cleric) 14
Monk 3
Dark Ranger3
Dex to hit/damage
Two weapon fighting (TWF)

Drow:
Unlocks Follower of Vulkoor
Spell res.
Auto trap for my lazy bum self
Imbue dice for Dark Apostate shenanigans

Cleric:
Luck domain (Displacement SLA and never failing saving throws again.)
Follower of Vulkoor (Shortswords + cool scorpion buddy.)
Dark Apostate tree (Apostate's Curse + Shadow Surrounding for DPS and avoidances)
War Priest (PPR and a little DPS)

Monk:
Water Stance
Evasion
Ninja spy (Dex to Hit/Damage + AC/dodge.)

Dark Ranger:
Traps
Tempest (Boosts to TWF)
TWF
Dark hunter tree (Doggy and some bonuses to trap finding)

However, here is where I need help. I've tried this build and leveled him up to 11, but I can't get him much further. It feels like enemies just swipe through my avoidances and immunities like they're nothing and his DPS leaves something to be desired (10-20 pierce+ 15-30 evil damage on average)

Cleric 5
Monk 3
Ranger 3

For feats, he has:
Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Whirlwind Strike
Deflect Arrows
Adept of Forms

Here are his current stats (With his normal buffs that last longer than 1 minute and his regular gear.)

Ability Scores	Defenses	Saves	Resistances
Strength 8 (Base 8)	Dodge 20% max 31%	Fortitude +20	PPR 16
Dex 23 (Base 20)	Incorporeality + concealment 5%	Reflex +28	MRR 6
Con 17 (Base 8)	Fortification 166%	Will +24	Energy Resistance 10
Int 23 (Base 16)	AC 53		Spell Resistance 25
Wis 28 (Base 16)	HP 220
Chr 12 (Base 10)	Effective HP 382

I looked it up and they should have a 2/3 chance of hitting me, then an 80% chance, than a 95% chance, then a 95% chance (48.13% chance, if they're sequential. 25.33% if I use the displacement SLA.) I know few monsters will roll lucky, but that's why I have my self-healing. I was thinking I could cast a heal/have a hireling heal me to essentially negate the damage before the next hit landed. This clearly isn't working.

How can I make this character tankier and have more DPS? Item suggestions are welcome, since I'm running pretty basic gear, but I do not have access to the Feywilds/Isle of Dread.

 

[Coffey]

Welcome to the forums!

Are you leveling to 20 or 32? Are you staying at end game?

You are using Short Swords? Not the best for damage.

Where to begin? I have seen many posts on the forums to new players to play a pure class until you are familiar with all the mechanics of DDO.

An enhancement or spell for increasing weapon Critical Threat and Critical Damage Multiplier are must haves for DPS. Clerics have one inherent option at gaining both and thats Holy Sword from War Domain. Holy Sword is not granted until Cleric level 14 so if you have taken 3 Monk and 3 Ranger levels you will have to wait until level 20 to rebuild.

Always take Improved Critical Feat when you have BAB 8 as seen on the lower right of the Character Sheet.

Try to max out your main damage stat taking all level up stats for that as well.

This is all i have time for at the moment.

ddowiki.com is your friend. Search engine anything you want to learn about by entering ddo and the key word you want to learn about and ddowiki usually appears first in the results.

 

[Bizmarkie]

My concern for this build would be how are you going to kill things. It sounds fun but DDO makes it so you can't do everything well. Defense, healing, offense, pick 2. Sacrifice 1.

 

[Onyxia2016]

I would not worry with the dark wolf since you are only taking 3 levels of Dark Ranger. That mean your wolf will be max level 3 and you can get the HP other places.

You are going to be stuck with robes/outfits to remained centered for your monk/ninja spy cores to work. This requires very high dodge and evasion as getting hit will hurt a lot, witch you are already having concerns about.

Counting on hirelings to heal is a risky thing. Their heals will only be 1/2 effective if you opt to use Shadow Shroud, which if you are going for a damage avoidance build it is hard to pass up 100 fortification, 5% conceal and incorporeal and +2 to WIS and CON for 1 AP
Once you get mass inflict spells you can toss one of them out to heal yourself and do some AOE damage to the monsters while in combat.

Find some gear/augments with ghostly/dusk/blurry to pump up your conceal and incorporeal stats.

You can make this work though heroic but past that it will get progressively worse.

 

[saekee]

hmmn...

If you are using short swords then you must use the named ones with expanded threat. I wonder if you will have the bab for IC: piercing by level 12 due to the multiclassing. Do you have the vistani tree by chance? That would make things a lot easier but then it seems you have done follower of vulkoor and kukris/daggers are out.

The best, easy-to-get short sword in the lower levels is the Tiefling Assassin blade ML4 from 3bc wilderness. It will take some farming but it has the solid threat range 15-20. It will even give you dex hit and damage.
You should farm up some good gear right now for the rest of heroics. You can either create on out of ravenloft for a couple of set bonuses, or use some combination from Sands of Menechaturan/Red fens. The easiest would be Red fens raveneye, maybe do the Vulkoor one out of sands (also easy to get--do the bloodstone trinket and the armor out of offering of blood) and assemble an adherent of the mists for ravenloft. You will need to plan it out and it will give you a lot to do. ToEE sets are possible too but a bit tougher to get. A more defensive route for gear would be the Tourney armor out of the sands wilderness.

Ninja spy can give you dex hit and damage with short swords but no need for now with the tiefling blades. It would take a lot of work but Razorend is the other solid short sword and also comes with keen. By then you want the dex hit and damage from ninja spy but note that it is ML 14. Again, a lot of grind to get it but you can level slowly with all the slayers you will be doing...

 

[Coffey]

Tier 5s ~ Up to +25% Maximum HP can be found in Melee Enhancement Trees as of a recent update. Warpriest has +20% up in tier 5 as well as +10% HP down in the level 12 4th Core.

 

[Coffey]

For feats, he has:
Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Whirlwind Strike
Deflect Arrows
Adept of Forms

You recieve TWF feat at Ranger level 2 automatically
BAB 6 you need ITWF
BAB 8 you need IC Piercing
BAB 11 you need GTWF
BAB 1 Precision

I am not sure what your leveling order is so i just listed the feats for the TWF fighting style you need to have in Heroics.

I would switch to Vistani Universal tree so you can continue with Luck Domain as saekee suggested. In tier 5 Grudge Bearer: You gain a +25% Competence bonus to Max Hit Points. It stacks with Warpriests +10% Sacred bonus to maximum HP. There are some great defensive / offensive enhancements and abilities in the VKF Universal tree including a +1 Critical Threat and Multiplier with Daggers at level 12 from the 4th core.

​

 

[Striga]

I would park the character as a mule and play something else. Maybe return when your alts gather some cool gear. And that vistani suggestion above sounds reasonable.

 

[Terpilar]

The Vulkoorim Pendant or the Bloodstone, the shortsword Sting (or a pair of those), the Vulkoorim Dervish Robe all seem to fit thematically and in practicality.
Seems like a flavorful, fun build, I would hang to it, as you progress in cleric levels things will start to click together, and in epics with the right combination of EDs it might still be viable; that could mean a lot of slayers in wilderness areas, or playing some quests under your level or on hard only, though.

 

[saekee]

The Vulkoorim Pendant or the Bloodstone, the shortsword Sting (or a pair of those), the Vulkoorim Dervish Robe all seem to fit thematically and in practicality.
Seems like a flavorful, fun build, I would hang to it, as you progress in cleric levels things will start to click together, and in epics with the right combination of EDs it might still be viable; that could mean a lot of slayers in wilderness areas, or playing some quests under your level or on hard only, though.

Yeah if OP wants to role play a bit here he can spend some time in the Sands and gear up. The Vulkoorim leathers are easy to get with some OOB runs since he can unlock the doors to the optional chests; on the way hit the rare chests and he might pull a Sting; Certainly farm the blood stone.
If using Sting then just do quests with fleshies—avoid undead and toasters. Just do one and then later couple it with a vampiric fury sword. Honestly though I would do the Tourney armor for its defenses.

As a first lifer you will cruise through levels and even just doing slayers can get you to 20. Just TR then although you will need to get mats for a Heart to TR. Take cleric levels from here and you can join groups as a healer and trapper.

 

[C-Dog]

Hi. I haven't posted on the forums,

Welcome to the Forums!

but I've been brewing a few ideas for solo characters for a few years (I enjoy passively grinding things out without being rushed.) I've rarely made it to level 20, but I have all the favor rewards, but my gear is a little mid.

Well, if you've "rarely made it to 20", then your character is missing some of the most powerful Favor Rewards - the +2/5/8 free Tomes of Ability, and also the past-life benefits that come with Reincarnating - PL bonuses, 34/36 pt builds, etc etc.

I've had a lot of fun with my newest creature, but I've started to struggle while acting out my design. Let me run down everything for you.

My plans:
First life
Starting at 7
Drow
Dark Ap. (Cleric) 14
Monk 3
Dark Ranger3
Dex to hit/damage
Two weapon fighting (TWF)

... and welcome to Character building.

It's not as easy as it is in tabletop D&D - in fact, it's not the same at all. You may be aware of this (but I'll repeat it for the benefit of others) - years of experience building characters in tabletop/pen-and-paper D&D will NOT transfer to building a strong character in DDO. It's just not the same - think of it as a new edition, D&D E.6, one w/ diff rules and diff build considerations that you've never seen before.

It takes a LOT of practice, and a lot of trial and errour, to internalize all the moving parts to the point where one can put together a multi-class DDO plan that as strong as something (mostly) pure - and GL making it stronger!

The most important diff - Enhancements. Without understanding how they work, and work with each other and with the different classes, it's very easy to create a build that looks good on paper (or, worse, in your head) but starts to fail around Character Level 7-10 - and, sadly but predictably, that's exactly what you're experiencing! You've grabbed a lot of shiny, low-hanging fruit, but are now finding yourself far from anything truly satisfying - which is what you want going into upper Heroics.


Part of what your build is suffering from is being "backloaded" - if you had a Level 20 build (or even just a Level 15 Iconic) to start with, it might work out, as all the parts are in place. But to level up, even from 7... tougher road to travel, my friend.

Another part has been touched on - you are reaching for a little of everything and getting a lot of nothing. Cut out the bells and whistles, focus on 1 or 2 things that the build can do well, and do that VERY well, and you'll be better off.

Simply put, in the current game, DPS is king. If(!) you can kill a Champ or Reaper or Boss before it can hit you, then you have no need for Defense. Now, this is expecting a lot, and "glass cannon" builds are what they are, but the principle still holds true - you have to kill them before they kill you, because even the best Tank will die without someone else doing the killing. And any "middle ground" that sacrifices significant DPS for something shiny is just as doomed.

But that's, largely, a lesson to be learned and to be applied next life. Let's see about salvaging this one...


By and large, a build gets strong on 2 things: Class special abilities, and Enhancements. And those get stronger as the character grows in Level, typically starting to get into some of the better stuff around Class Level 6-12 or so. Your build is almost Character Level 12, but still hasn't seen one Class Level 6 ability! And that is where he's falling behind.

Let's look at the current split., and your own observation...

Dark Ranger 3:
Tempest (Boosts to TWF)

...his DPS leaves something to be desired (10-20 pierce+ 15-30 evil damage on average)

Largely because you haven't even reached the Core 6 Tempest Enhancement, which adds that great Drow Dex to your Damage! As pointed out above, you also have no bonus to criticals (threat range or multiplier), which is where most killers get a lot of their DPS juice.

Cleric 5 is higher level (and closer to a Core 6), but I'm not seeing a lot of promise any time soon. (War Priest Core 6, +20 PRR, is nice, but won't solve your DPS problems!) And you would not see Cleric 12 until Character Level 18 at the earliest, and I don't think that offers that much either way.

On the other hand, Ranger Core 6 does add Dex to Damage, which will help. And the Tempest Tier 4 & 5 Enhancements have some really tasty DPS improvements (e.g. Growing Storm, Dance of Death, Dual Perfection, etc.). If I were you*, I'd go that way - focus on Ranger from here out, finish as a Ranger 12/Cleric 5/Monk 3.

You recieve TWF feat at Ranger level 2 automatically
BAB 6 you need ITWF
BAB 8 you need IC Piercing
BAB 11 you need GTWF
BAB 1 Precision

I am not sure what your leveling order is so i just listed the feats for the TWF fighting style you need to have in Heroics.

If you stick w/ pure Ranger from here out...

• asap: Swap out Deflect Arrows for Precision, another Monk feat (free via Fred); slot it in a Hotbar and turn it on
• Lvl 12: Improved Crit
• Lvl 14: You'll get ITWF free at Ranger 6
• Lvl 15: take GTWF (you get it free at 19, but that's a looong way away - most Ranger builds would have it at Character Level 11-13)
• Lvl 18: Extend
• Lvl 19: (free GTWF - if you want, you can pay to swap out the Lvl 15 feat, maybe for Empower Healing (or Maximize, if you are never coming close to running short of spell points!) for better Admixtures. YMMV whether the cost is worth it (but someone might be happy to provide the shard free).)

Pure DH will also make your trapping and other Skills happier - Search/Spot/DD/OL maxed, natch. Then get full ranks in UMD and Heal, and spend the rest whereever. (Don't bother with Hide/MS unless you have the points for full ranks in both - let's just say it's not a perfect battle tactic currently, and this build doesn't want to spend Enhancement Points chasing something else.)

Also, consider dumping the short-swords (and any points spent chasing them via Drow) and going dual Scimitars - superior in several ways (and just as "Drow-ish" visually, imo).


Either way, you'll get Ranger 12 @ 20, in time for farming. Do NOT try to go to 30 w/ this monstrosity; go back and get some good gear for your next life, and enjoy!

I would switch to Vistani Universal tree so you can continue with Luck Domain as saekee suggested. In tier 5 Grudge Bearer: You gain a +25% Competence bonus to Max Hit Points. It stacks with Warpriests +10% Sacred bonus to maximum HP. There are some great defensive / offensive enhancements and abilities in the VKF Universal tree including a +1 Critical Threat and Multiplier with Daggers at level 12 from the 4th core.

* IF(!) you have VKF, this is a superior solution. With a Universal Tree, "class level" no longer restricts your Core Enhancements - it's all Character Level, so you're moving right into Core 12, which is a win. Dump the points you spent on Drow Short Swords**, and go daggers/etc, and enjoy.

(** Any "+#" to damage becomes far less meaningful by late Heroics. You want a bonus that will scale up with the rest of your character. So lose the "+1 to damage with Shortswords" and grab something meatier.)

 

[Coffey]

Hey C-Dog great write up! I think this is a role play build that went sideways. OP has attained all the Favor rewards so far on this 1st life character and i am guessing that they want to continue this character to either level 20 or end game. Not sure this is going to be a PL runner at all from the sounds of it. We may never know.

Short Swords can work with Deepwood Stalkers Improved Weapon Finesse: You can use your Dexterity modifier for damage when wielding thrown weapons, and melee weapons with which you can use your Dexterity modifier to hit. (Longbows and Shortbows use your Dexterity modifier by default). The Weapon Finesse feat is NOT required to take this enhancement. Does not apply to crossbows. Does not apply to handwraps when using weapon finesse but will work when used with Basic Ninja Training. Applies to Weapon Finesse weapons if you have that feat, as well as weapons (including handwraps and unarmed) with which you gain Dexterity to hit via enhancements.

I think the easiest way to keep the build alive is to rebuild, switch to Vistani and use daggers until level 20. If OP wants to go to level 32 using Short Swords then War Domain is necessary for descent DPS. The trade off is Luck Domain defenses and a strong tier 5.

I agree that 12 Ranger would be the best for DPS over all.

 

[C-Dog]

Hey C-Dog great write up! I think this is a role play build that went sideways.

Thanks! o7

Roleplay builds (aka "flavor" builds", or "(high) concept" builds) are what they are - sub-optimal, trading off best choices for "fun", however the player defines that for themselves. The problem arises when, as here, the player states "...I've started to struggle... I can't get him much further..."*, as then it is a question of where such concepts as "finishing quests" and "making it to 20" fit into that personal "fun" equation. Which is 100% up the individual - I'm looking at where he is, and where he wants to go, and, for myself, I have doubts he can get there easily without some concept changes. All depends how much "improvement" he wants to endure.

(* or words to that effect - the OP is far, FAR from alone in this problem. Hardly the first, won't be the last. )​

Short swords start at

• d6 Pierce
• Critical threat range 19-20/x2

Scimitars start at

• 1d6 Slash
• Critical threat range 18-20/x2

Short swords can be improved, but so can scimi's, and if things are going badly I'd think the OP wants all the room for improvement they can scrape together. If they can avoid having to spend more AP (and levels!) in Cleric/War Priest, that's all to the good. Altho' Ranger 12 does not offer any game-changing class benefits (+1 ST's, a 2nd Lvl 3 spell), Ranger 12 opens the Core 12 Enhancements to get Tempest Core 12: +1 Crit Multiplier - and Scimi's are crit monsters.

It's not until L20, admittedly, but that makes farming Tokens and any gear that much easier. Better late than never.

All depends how much of a "concept" change they're willing to make.

As for Vistani, I don't see a "rebuild" necessary (as he can easily be Dex-based via Ranger), just an Enhancement respec - unless I'm braincramping on something?

OP has attained all the Favor rewards so far on this 1st life character ...

I had the impression that the various favor rewards were from other, previous characters, and this design is the (1st-life) product of those other efforts...

... I've rarely made it to level 20, but I have all the favor rewards...

... which leaves it unclear. <shrug>

I agree that 12 Ranger would be the best for DPS over all.

a'yup.

 

[saekee]

hey CDog very thoughtful—why I toonwas suggesting the expanded threat shortswords. Too bad kukris are not a favored weapon…
Either way OP you are first life so you will get to 20 fast. Perhaps going ranger from here on is the easiest and you can get Past life: ranger, the best for ranged builds (+2 damage).

there are not many successful short sword builds—despite the success of the Roman Legions and TWF gladiators, the weapon has not translated well to DDO—only the named ones stand out. When I first started playing, I had a drow toon named Saekee (female too) and she used short swords all the time; I collected them for their synergy with ninja spy. My first true DPS weapon was Razorend and I loved it, it seemed so cool.

There is a nice Scimitar out of Menechtarun (Mirage) and if you pair it with one of the right necklaces there you get Windlasher, one of the better heroic melee sets that is tricky to put together.

https://ddowiki.com/page/Named_item_sets

You can do Vulkoor there and windlasher and while farming up all the mats in the wilderness, you will probably level up a couple of times.

EDIT: forget scimitars, they will uncenter you.

 

[Coffey]

As for Vistani, I don't see a "rebuild" necessary (as he can easily be Dex-based via Ranger), just an Enhancement respec - unless I'm braincramping on something?

A Lesser Heart rebuild would make Heroics better for leveling if OP wants to stay the course with 14 levels of Cleric but use VKF for leveling instead. If they are not leveling past Heroics then may as well switch to Vol for favored weapons too.

Largely because you haven't even reached the Core 6 Tempest Enhancement, which adds that great Drow Dex to your Damage!

I think OP has Dex to damage through DWS.

 

[Coffey]

There is a nice Scimitar out of Menechtarun (Mirage) and if you pair it with one of the right necklaces there you get Windlasher, one of the better heroic melee sets that is tricky to put together.
https://ddowiki.com/page/Named_item_sets

Mirage is a great Scimatar to have at level 10.

Whirling Steel Strike with Knights Training and these level 8 Long Swords could help a lot with Tempest DPS too!

 

[saekee]

Mirage is a great Scimatar to have at level 10.

Whirling Steel Strike with Knights Training and these level 8 Long Swords could help a lot with Tempest DPS too!

they won’t get dex to hit and damage with long swords though
edit: I am wrong see below

 

[Coffey]

they won’t get dex to hit and damage with long swords though

I guess im not reading it right then?

Hmm

 

[saekee]

I guess im not reading it right then?

Hmm

No you are right—my mistake—I was thinking deepwood stalker improved weapon finesse.
Ninja spy would work to make them dex hit and damage. The main issue is the number of feats—OP would need to figure out how to swap out a couple to get weapon focis slashing and whirling steel strike, then fit in Knight’s Training. Very doable if he had planned it out from level 1. Whirling Steel Strike needs proficiency in longswords so that needs to be timed with a ranger level in there or cleric/sovereign host I think. Either way, it is doable but there is a lot of backpedaling.

Someone mentioned scimitars and I ran with it but they won’t work—he has 3 monk levels. Hence it is short swords with the solid few named ones we listed, or take out a lot of time delay, dragonshard thingy and Fred to fit in long swords.

 

[saekee]

Thanks! o7

Roleplay builds (aka "flavor" builds", or "(high) concept" builds) are what they are - sub-optimal, trading off best choices for "fun", however the player defines that for themselves. The problem arises when, as here, the player states "...I've started to struggle... I can't get him much further..."*, as then it is a question of where such concepts as "finishing quests" and "making it to 20" fit into that personal "fun" equation. Which is 100% up the individual - I'm looking at where he is, and where he wants to go, and, for myself, I have doubts he can get there easily without some concept changes. All depends how much "improvement" he wants to endure.

(* or words to that effect - the OP is far, FAR from alone in this problem. Hardly the first, won't be the last. )​

Short swords start at

• d6 Pierce
• Critical threat range 19-20/x2

Scimitars start at

• 1d6 Slash
• Critical threat range 18-20/x2

Short swords can be improved, but so can scimi's, and if things are going badly I'd think the OP wants all the room for improvement they can scrape together. If they can avoid having to spend more AP (and levels!) in Cleric/War Priest, that's all to the good. Altho' Ranger 12 does not offer any game-changing class benefits (+1 ST's, a 2nd Lvl 3 spell), Ranger 12 opens the Core 12 Enhancements to get Tempest Core 12: +1 Crit Multiplier - and Scimi's are crit monsters.

It's not until L20, admittedly, but that makes farming Tokens and any gear that much easier. Better late than never.

All depends how much of a "concept" change they're willing to make.

As for Vistani, I don't see a "rebuild" necessary (as he can easily be Dex-based via Ranger), just an Enhancement respec - unless I'm braincramping on something?


I had the impression that the various favor rewards were from other, previous characters, and this design is the (1st-life) product of those other efforts...

... which leaves it unclear. <shrug>


a'yup.

we got carried away here—the scimitars will uncenter him!