How about a softcore server?
- Thread starter PaleFox
- Start date
calouscaine
Grouchy Vet
I'm not sure what's challenging about it, I just ran a pure wiz on hc up through level 24 doing everything on elite with no re-runs. I guess the difficult part of your proposal would be doing it on normal due to the lower xp, but it can still be done just fine with very little challenge.I see that my softcore mechanics are too challenging for the crowd on this board.
Def gonna happen now.
Any first life character should be able to tank through pretty much any quest on normal with no problem, and if you do every single one (almost), then you will have more than enough xp to progress level wise with ease.
By the time one is done with korthos and boarderlands you should have enough xp for level 5 or 6, by the time you're done with the harbor around 8, market 12, and that doesn't even touch the houses or other areas.
PyrotechRick
Well-known member
So I've reflected on this idea. I think the largely negative reaction to the OP's proposal is that they have included some fairly arbitrary changes that are clearly their preference but without really explaining what they hope these changes will achieve. It's not clear for example what restricting all dungeons to normal or preventing multiclassing is supposed to achieve.
What I think a "softcore" server could achieve is to allow everyone to play on a much more even footing. Just like the hardcore serves do but without permadeath. There are lots of threads on the forums about the disparity between a new player and a player with multiple past lives, gear farmed over those lives, lots of Reaper points etc. A softcore server could serve as a casual or introductory server. There could be restrictions in place to limit the accumulation of power by reincarnations and twinking with gear farmed by higher level alts. Perhaps reincarnation is disabled and all bound to account items are now bound to character. There could be a free transfers off of the server, as per hardcore, so that players can move on when they reach cap if they want to start the reincarnation grind.
So I think there is some merit in a softcore server, I just think that any changes to the gameplay experience need to be directed purely towards creating that feeling of everyone starting off equal that Hardcore has rather than making sweeping changes to the way experience is earned or how characters are built and leveled up.
What I think a "softcore" server could achieve is to allow everyone to play on a much more even footing. Just like the hardcore serves do but without permadeath. There are lots of threads on the forums about the disparity between a new player and a player with multiple past lives, gear farmed over those lives, lots of Reaper points etc. A softcore server could serve as a casual or introductory server. There could be restrictions in place to limit the accumulation of power by reincarnations and twinking with gear farmed by higher level alts. Perhaps reincarnation is disabled and all bound to account items are now bound to character. There could be a free transfers off of the server, as per hardcore, so that players can move on when they reach cap if they want to start the reincarnation grind.
So I think there is some merit in a softcore server, I just think that any changes to the gameplay experience need to be directed purely towards creating that feeling of everyone starting off equal that Hardcore has rather than making sweeping changes to the way experience is earned or how characters are built and leveled up.
vryxnr
Well-known member
Softcore is what I call the normal non-hardcore servers.
As for the OP restrictions... that... seems to me like... a mode for people who can't make even basic decisions? No trainers or fred? So you have no agency over your build other than choosing the race, class and path on creation.
Normal only no repeats... that sounds like the next step up from watching someone else play instead of playing yourself, and the person you're watching is just doing a showcase of quests instead of anything challenging or impressive. It's a super easy tour of the game with no challenge* and no agency over your character.
* the only challenge would be if you chose a crappy path and your loot rng is bad, Inferno of the Damned if you do not have the correct spells, never got scrolls, or don't have the umd to use them if you did get them, and thus have to bait the enemies to light and extinguish the torches for you. Until you get to cap, then I guess the challenge would be doing those raids (once each only) with crap gear on crap builds.
As for the OP restrictions... that... seems to me like... a mode for people who can't make even basic decisions? No trainers or fred? So you have no agency over your build other than choosing the race, class and path on creation.
Normal only no repeats... that sounds like the next step up from watching someone else play instead of playing yourself, and the person you're watching is just doing a showcase of quests instead of anything challenging or impressive. It's a super easy tour of the game with no challenge* and no agency over your character.
* the only challenge would be if you chose a crappy path and your loot rng is bad, Inferno of the Damned if you do not have the correct spells, never got scrolls, or don't have the umd to use them if you did get them, and thus have to bait the enemies to light and extinguish the torches for you. Until you get to cap, then I guess the challenge would be doing those raids (once each only) with crap gear on crap builds.
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GamerTagRoid
New member
I like PyrotechRick's idea. One server that a lot of things are disabled or character based instead of account, the difficulty would have to be ramped up a bit I think though. Something that actually points towards grouping, staying together as a group unless a point in the dungeon requires a split to solve a puzzle... HC doesn't do it. I've tried playing two different HC seasons now. I'm a F2P account, just grabbed a couple of adventure packs this season (Tangleroot and Catacombs, if I remember right), but was doing everything solo on Normal. I've gone into groups, told them I'm slow and might not know the dungeon and to please don't leave me behind. Nope. Get left behind, get caught in a mob of... well, mobs... Dead. HC in my opinion does not promote a grouping experience. Heck regular servers don't promote grouping, not with people who have tons of past lives, gear from expansions which is LARGELY better than anything a F2P account can wrangle... Just kind of makes me really wonder why do I play?
calouscaine
Grouchy Vet
That's pretty bad, next hc season hit me up. You can join me and my guildies for dungeons, we don't zerg and won't leave you behind. Heck, if you're on cannith we'll even help you farm gear.
On a side note, the op obviously hasn't attempted to farm gear and is unaware of the abysmal drop rates for named items. So, they must want everyone to wear rng gear only on the server they propose, meaning that once you get into upper levels you're done. Everything will most likely end you with ease.
liosliante
Well-known member
Are the people posting messages like this because the server is down?
PaleFox
Well-known member
Ok, let me explain a bit further as to why normal only and why no reruns.
There are two limiting factors here, one some of guessed already, eg the lower xp for running normal.
Hence why I added being able to rerun explorer zones.
That was mainly for being able to get to quests, but maybe I should add no rares/slayers.
I'd expect to see some weird mechanic happening here for those level ranges where there isn't enough xp to go around.
While on other levels, a lot of quests are skipped because you have leveled past them.
Second is the way lower chance for getting a named item.
So you'd either reroll three times while you have the chance to do so.
Which at 20% chance is kinda on you if you decide to do so.
Maybe I should add that you can only enter quests at your level or that are of a higher level.
No saga rewards either then?
The no-multiclassing is just there for being able to auto level up once you have enough xp to do so.
But maybe you should just be auto ported to market and not be able to enter a quest without leveling up first?
There are two limiting factors here, one some of guessed already, eg the lower xp for running normal.
Hence why I added being able to rerun explorer zones.
That was mainly for being able to get to quests, but maybe I should add no rares/slayers.
I'd expect to see some weird mechanic happening here for those level ranges where there isn't enough xp to go around.
While on other levels, a lot of quests are skipped because you have leveled past them.
Second is the way lower chance for getting a named item.
So you'd either reroll three times while you have the chance to do so.
Which at 20% chance is kinda on you if you decide to do so.
Maybe I should add that you can only enter quests at your level or that are of a higher level.
No saga rewards either then?
The no-multiclassing is just there for being able to auto level up once you have enough xp to do so.
But maybe you should just be auto ported to market and not be able to enter a quest without leveling up first?
PyrotechRick
Well-known member
Maybe I'm being dumb but I still don't get what those changes are aiming to achieve. I get that limiting quests to only normal and only being run once massively reduces the XP available but I'm not clear what playstyle that is supposed to promote? It makes grouping harder because it severely limits the choice of quests any one character can do. It risks people who don't have paid for content getting stuck at certain levels. It makes it harder for players who are unfamiliar with the game to find quests they can do. it is probably going to increase zerging. I just don't get how this improves the game experience.
calouscaine
Grouchy Vet
The thing with re-rerolling is it costs money. The basic average is 10 shards = $1 give or take, so you are telling people to blow a bunch of money on a low percentage rigged gambling operation with a less than 10% chance of getting something semi decent. And that's a 10% per roll, it doesn't go up with each roll, so you're actually looking at less than a 10% chance with the loss of money on top of it. The chance supposedly goes up with difficulty, but to be honest with over a decade and a half playing this game the difficulty setting has never improved my chances at getting anything named, nor have the majority of potions. The only thing that I've noted that works in raising loot drops are the elixirs of discovery (gold dice roll at $1.50 a pop for a less than 10% chance to get one), or the treasure maps which rarely drop in three barrel.
While this is great for SSG boosting their wallets, it's bad for people in todays poor economy, and it's a poor business tactic which has been looked down upon via many gamers and even banned in the eu.
That aside, heroic slayers are garbage xp wise and there are no real drops from them other than the occasional collectable, I know this because I actually did them once and a few hundred xp isn't going to do anything for you when you have to kill hundreds to thousands of monsters to get it. Epic slayers were much better done on this front.
All that said, you can play the way you described on a normal or hard core server with out the need for special coding, time, effort, or cost of production on the developer side. Minus the auto leveling of course. So there's no need for a completely re-coded server just for this, it wouldn't be cost effective and most likely couldn't pay for itself. Not to mention, every new update would have to have it's own special code to tailor to this as well.
The Narc
Well-known member
You hit the nail on the head here, rerolling is gambling and addictive and it costs families real money.
As a side note.
You will never be able to prove that they dont look at certain accounts and lower the drop rates on an account by account basis, or just ensure that the forst two rolls dont give anything to ensure the full cash in. Purely speculative but human nature is human nature and we have seen plenty of givith and takith away in DDO.
Svirfneblin
Well-known member
If the rewards were Ottos boxes then everyone would play it.
rabidfox
The People's Champion
So zero challenge and everyone is a single class build. Multiclassing and the wild incredible builds that players can make it is what sets DDO appart from other newer games. Without multiclassing and customizing at trainers, DDO would just be a forgettable generic game. You're literally asking them to remove the thing that makes DDO highly replayable and unique.
eshadowbringer
Well-known member
Actually I think you can select a "path" on most of the main classes.
What is it you want? More of a roleplay server?
I don't think the culture of DDO in its current state would support that. I can see the appeal though! The game is more fun for me when I can go all in on the immersion aspect. I is so easy to get caught up in the meta and steamroll through content over and over again.
I don't think this is the answer, but I can appreciate where you are coming from.
eshadowbringer
Well-known member
To be fair, it's not quite the same as being on a server where everyone else also just started.
calouscaine
Grouchy Vet
I wouldn't mind a rp specific server, but I think you're right about the community not being there for it.
eshadowbringer
Well-known member
ROFL got my +1 I just figured this out!
PaleFox
Well-known member
Yeah, that's probably also why the whole step-xxx is such a popular theme on the hardcore server.
Back on topic.
The underlaying reason why normal and why no reruns is fairly simple.
To get a more acceptable baseline of race/class performance.
Mind you, not to measure each against each other but to measure each against themselves.
And weed out true stuck spots in the leveling process and find those moments where the quest/environment is to hazardous.
calouscaine
Grouchy Vet
There are some pretty large discrepancies in difficulty between old content and new, though. . .I think checking it all and redoing it/updating it would make the older dungeons more difficult at lower levels than it perhaps needs to be?
For example, a level three harbor/market quest it vastly easier than something in salt marsh. At least that's what I noticed when farming favor on hc this season. I'm not sure if I'd say it needs to be updated or not though. There's a nice back and forth between having to focus more and being able to relax in a dungeon between the two. I wouldn't want the new content to get too easy either. But the content was more or less designed for two different games given the time between development.
PaleFox
Well-known member
Exactly, but without hard measurements from something like a softcore server everything we write down here is just anecdotal and nothing to rely on. The baseline should be normal at level and scale the game from there.
But what we have now as a baseline is Elite from HC, Reaper from normal servers, both with highly twinked out characters and on normal servers with a vast amount of past lives.
Btw, from my perspective any group of characters should be able to complete a normal quest at level. Should be able to recover between fights and should only fail because of sheer unluck, rushing, no team play or just plain stupid behavior.
If well played and characters still die on this softcore then a quest should be put up for review or possibly some other game mechanic.
Another nice catch is that a normal only mode means that it is way more friendly for new players.