Mindos
CHAOTIC EVIL
This one?
How much more is it giving?
How do you gear your PM?
- Thread starter Timmius
- Start date
How much more is it giving?
I do find at least in R10 and the newer content the DC's do matter, not that you could not get by with less. On Vencna quests it is noticeable.
I am pretty happy with my setup, it's a little light on defense but augments make up most of the difference.
Like you say many ways to go about it. I ran esoteric set for a very long time prior to this setup.
I posted a rough build because the gear you use is highly dependent on what spells you are using and how you configure and play the build. The fact I like to use Acid/Sonic because it is not easily resisted and has very few immune mobs plays into what gear I do.
I also like to layer crowd control, web is a great spell that catches mobs that other spells miss, very few mobs make it through web + mass hold + greater color spray + BoGW + Greater shout. So I don't use fire spells.
I also like to layer crowd control, web is a great spell that catches mobs that other spells miss, very few mobs make it through web + mass hold + greater color spray + BoGW + Greater shout. So I don't use fire spells.
Lazuli
Well-known member
Yeah, yours is a good set up. At the moment I have no DC problems with my current set up, and I am also happy with it. I could improve it, but right now it's not worth it. Reaper shards don't exactly fall from the sky. The drop of reaper items is very low and I have no guarantees of being able to replace them before myth drannor.
I have significantly more hps and sp than you, but since I don't always have the luxury of a group and only a lot, I need them. I can't allow a doom to kill me with one blow, I won't have anyone to rescue me.
Last edited:
Lazuli
Well-known member
Double. It may not seem like much, but there are few sources of exceptional spell power and critical, and that makes it still a competitive robe.
Yeah, I don't solo above R6 so for me it is fine. I agree not much use in farming anything now. I have enough frags for two items but don't want to burn them with the cap going up.
For SP since I use the Primal mantle it is a huge difference.
Lazuli
Well-known member
Yes, if you don't do solo above r6, more hps are not necessary. I made a set in Excel like yours, I compared the pros and cons of changing, but it didn't really make sense to me because I would have to lower the difficulty of playing alone.
With Leg chrono I did see the possibility of changing, but seeing that myth drannor being so close... nah. I have shards for three or four items, but when myth drannor arrives I will want to equip not only my main, but my main alt. There's really no point in changing now. Devs should lower the cost on reaper fragments, it is too high for the low drop.
The only mantle that suits my way of playing is the draconic, because it is activated with any spell. The PA is quite limited by requiring specific spells in its activation. I have tried it several times, but although I love its spell points, in terms of dps the draconic is more effective, due to its universal activation. It works great with druid tho.
PA's upgraded thorn spell is amazing when you solo tho.
Yea I have ran Draconic many times as well its a good option. I find with Carrion swarm, Acid Well, Shard Storm and arcane tempest at least on the boss fights I can get a lot of procs which is mostly what matters anyway. The poison is often resisted, but Acid/Force at least mostly work on everything.
I miss some sort of wings from Draconic more than anything. That is the worst thing with my setup. It is why I can't give up sprint boost from falconry, otherwise I would probably use PM + Archmage + Fedyark and give up 1 DC overall.
I could switch out Magus for EA I guess but it doesn't really fit in with the rest of the build at all.
Fisto Mk I
Well-known member
I hesitated whether to answer, risking our good (as it seems to me) established relations, but your patronizing tone woke the beast in me... 
Arguable again. It's provide +2 unique atacking to all Alchemical bonus to your primary stat and enough versatile to provide some nice benefits. Personally, i use Crystal Light Shield with T1 Impulse +148, Kinetic Lore +22%, T2 Alchemical Intelligence +2 and T3 Alchemical Water Attunement, Orange slot (i have +6 Necro from other piece of gear, and Water Attunement still 2nd best from all). Other T3 ability still appealing: Spell Penetration +9, Purple slot; Improved Cold Augmentation IX, Purple slot (some peoples run in Magus ED instead DI); Necromancy Focus +6, Green slot (green slot is very rare at weapon/shield slot).
IoD weapon/orb/shield provide second proc buff/debuff and another part for Dread set. I think here is valid choice between LAC and IoD option.
Unconvincing, my friend, unconvincing.
Suuuure...
Well, let's see: you designated your build as IK/CC bot primary and nuker secondary, right?
So, as IK/CC you need Illusion, Necro, Enchantment and Conjuration DC. As nuker you need Evocation DC also. It's mean... wait, i count... right, 10 aug slot, 5 mandatory for unique +2 Enhancement bonuses from GH augments, right?
Seems too many wasted augment slots for me personally...
Lol, see above!
If seriously, what so crucially provide +1 Int to you, hmm? In better case, it's +1DС and chunk of spellpoints, and you say repeating you don't care about only +1DC. In reality, you even don't lose this +1DC because hagstone provide +3 Insight DC bonus to Spellmastery and you currently use only +2.
Yea, i don't value spellpoints as you. I good trader and have enough AS to buying as many elixir as i need... and reaper mana bubbles do life much mush easier.
Do you know what's especially funny? You are now giving me the same arguments that I myself made in dialogue with Kalibano in her thread.
Arguable again. It's provide +2 unique atacking to all Alchemical bonus to your primary stat and enough versatile to provide some nice benefits. Personally, i use Crystal Light Shield with T1 Impulse +148, Kinetic Lore +22%, T2 Alchemical Intelligence +2 and T3 Alchemical Water Attunement, Orange slot (i have +6 Necro from other piece of gear, and Water Attunement still 2nd best from all). Other T3 ability still appealing: Spell Penetration +9, Purple slot; Improved Cold Augmentation IX, Purple slot (some peoples run in Magus ED instead DI); Necromancy Focus +6, Green slot (green slot is very rare at weapon/shield slot).
IoD weapon/orb/shield provide second proc buff/debuff and another part for Dread set. I think here is valid choice between LAC and IoD option.
+2 Alc Int is not big deal, but +1 Int from IoD artifact is big? You'll decide whether it's important or not.
As i say many times, all builds that don't used 2 weapon slot i personally consider as voluntary gimped. In addition, this is only 1DC more, comparing with LAC. So no, no tnx. 8)
Lol, i'm too lazy and really use Leg Affirmation on main hand... but we all know it's only swappable option for all caster builds that used AoE DoT.
Unconvincing, my friend, unconvincing.
Suuuure...
Well, let's see: you designated your build as IK/CC bot primary and nuker secondary, right?
So, as IK/CC you need Illusion, Necro, Enchantment and Conjuration DC. As nuker you need Evocation DC also. It's mean... wait, i count... right, 10 aug slot, 5 mandatory for unique +2 Enhancement bonuses from GH augments, right?
Seems too many wasted augment slots for me personally...
Well... I'm say it many time before, i repeat it again: personally, i consider Red Dragon-something Armor as BiS. So for me all other option seems as suboptimal. Moreover, if you can get bonuses you get from your armor/set from other sources. DiM sources is very limited, other bonuses you get - not. 8)
Hmm... and you say you don't need bonus attunement DoT from LAC and DiM from armor slot? Hmm...
Here our opinions completely coincide!
Yeah, and you didn't convince me.
For get DiM if no other option available? Sure.
Lol, see above!
If seriously, what so crucially provide +1 Int to you, hmm? In better case, it's +1DС and chunk of spellpoints, and you say repeating you don't care about only +1DC. In reality, you even don't lose this +1DC because hagstone provide +3 Insight DC bonus to Spellmastery and you currently use only +2.
Yes (if for dread you mean Dreadkeeper. If you mean Dread Isle's Curse - i prefer Leg Abishai Chrono set).
Patronizing tone is not the best way to engage in dialogue. Just imagine I'm in the game as much as you are and know as much as you can. And that I fully understand what and why you are using. I'm talk about Ender set just because i wanna show that even fully LGS set is outdated and gimped. LGS still good and usable for you? It's good, here no universal perfect set for all players.
Now elitist approach? It seems that you yourself do not consider your above arguments convincing enough if you find it necessary to use this approach in a dialogue with me.
Yea, i don't value spellpoints as you. I good trader and have enough AS to buying as many elixir as i need... and reaper mana bubbles do life much mush easier.
It's why you need Red Dragonhide Armor... if you wanna... 8)
Do you know what's especially funny? You are now giving me the same arguments that I myself made in dialogue with Kalibano in her thread.
I'll think about it...
Lazuli
Well-known member
Part by part.I hesitated whether to answer, risking our good (as it seems to me) established relations, but your patronizing tone woke the beast in me...
Arguable again. It's provide +2 unique atacking to all Alchemical bonus to your primary stat and enough versatile to provide some nice benefits. Personally, i use Crystal Light Shield with T1 Impulse +148, Kinetic Lore +22%, T2 Alchemical Intelligence +2 and T3 Alchemical Water Attunement, Orange slot (i have +6 Necro from other piece of gear, and Water Attunement still 2nd best from all). Other T3 ability still appealing: Spell Penetration +9, Purple slot; Improved Cold Augmentation IX, Purple slot (some peoples run in Magus ED instead DI); Necromancy Focus +6, Green slot (green slot is very rare at weapon/shield slot).
IoD weapon/orb/shield provide second proc buff/debuff and another part for Dread set. I think here is valid choice between LAC and IoD option.
+2 Alc Int is not big deal, but +1 Int from IoD artifact is big? You'll decide whether it's important or not.
As i say many times, all builds that don't used 2 weapon slot i personally consider as voluntary gimped. In addition, this is only 1DC more, comparing with LAC. So no, no tnx. 8)
Lol, i'm too lazy and really use Leg Affirmation on main hand... but we all know it's only swappable option for all caster builds that used AoE DoT.
Unconvincing, my friend, unconvincing.
Suuuure...
Well, let's see: you designated your build as IK/CC bot primary and nuker secondary, right?
So, as IK/CC you need Illusion, Necro, Enchantment and Conjuration DC. As nuker you need Evocation DC also. It's mean... wait, i count... right, 10 aug slot, 5 mandatory for unique +2 Enhancement bonuses from GH augments, right?
Seems too many wasted augment slots for me personally...
Well... I'm say it many time before, i repeat it again: personally, i consider Red Dragon-something Armor as BiS. So for me all other option seems as suboptimal. Moreover, if you can get bonuses you get from your armor/set from other sources. DiM sources is very limited, other bonuses you get - not. 8)
Hmm... and you say you don't need bonus attunement DoT from LAC and DiM from armor slot? Hmm...
Here our opinions completely coincide!
Yeah, and you didn't convince me.
For get DiM if no other option available? Sure.
Lol, see above!
If seriously, what so crucially provide +1 Int to you, hmm? In better case, it's +1DС and chunk of spellpoints, and you say repeating you don't care about only +1DC. In reality, you even don't lose this +1DC because hagstone provide +3 Insight DC bonus to Spellmastery and you currently use only +2.
Yes (if for dread you mean Dreadkeeper. If you mean Dread Isle's Curse - i prefer Leg Abishai Chrono set).
Patronizing tone is not the best way to engage in dialogue. Just imagine I'm in the game as much as you are and know as much as you can. And that I fully understand what and why you are using. I'm talk about Ender set just because i wanna show that even fully LGS set is outdated and gimped. LGS still good and usable for you? It's good, here no universal perfect set for all players.
Now elitist approach? It seems that you yourself do not consider your above arguments convincing enough if you find it necessary to use this approach in a dialogue with me.
Yea, i don't value spellpoints as you. I good trader and have enough AS to buying as many elixir as i need... and reaper mana bubbles do life much mush easier.
It's why you need Red Dragonhide Armor... if you wanna... 8)
Do you know what's especially funny? You are now giving me the same arguments that I myself made in dialogue with Kalibano in her thread.
I'll think about it...
It's not about +2 alch int vs +1 int of the artifact, it's about the overall benefit you have with each thing. We are weighing having a +2 to alchemical int (+1 DC) vs a +2 to all the DC of an IoD staff. In terms of DC, the IoD staff wins, because one more point to DC and it also allows you to have Leg affirmation, which I honestly prefer as a defensive buff to a shield on a wizard (and that is if you are competent with the shield). If you are willing to give up that DC, having two IoD weapons allows you to carry a series of debuffs and the leg affirmation that increase your efficiency A LOT, and if you are in a group, also the efficiency of the group.
Have you noticed in raids how you do much more damage than normal? That's because people use debuffs like the ones I told you and stack them on the bosses. IoD weapons at the moment are BIS for casters because they have stats which you can’t find in another end game weapon. There are things that are better or worse depending on the way you play. But IoD weapons currently leave alchemical in the dust, which also only work for offhand. Alchemical has its point if you really want a shield, but in general IoD weapons have made alchemical obsolete.
That said, LGS salt is still better than IoD weapons, because its salt effect is much better than IoD, which is nerfed or bugged.
The IoD artifact is better than the wrath one because it gives you bonuses that you can't get elsewhere. The only real good bonus from wrath is +3 insightful mastery, but you can get that on non-artifacts. 15 intelligence right now can only be obtained in IoD and I think in Vecna as well. IoD has the advantage that it is craftable, and you can add really good things, like critical damage or sacred spell DC, which can be found in very few items, or you can simply add stats that you haven't been able to fit elsewhere..
Fisto, I am a firm defender of bringing wizards who know how to do more than just CC and installkills. You read me, so you've seen how much I've argued that wizards should have spell damage, less than dedicated nukers, but enough for solo and contributing. But Driping in magma isn't that amazing. It's something that's fine if you can fit it into the gear, but not something you have to give up other stats for. If you want dots, the draconic mantle gives you one, and the meltfang from IoD weapons is a good dot too. I have both.
When I build my gear, I do so by fitting all the bonuses I need. A dot is something accessory that is nice when you have it, not a necessary stat. You need defensive stats, you need DC stats, you need spell damage stats. A gear dot is accessory, an extra. So when you tell me that my choice of robe is incorrect because I am blocking myself from using red dragon, that is not true for my playstyle. Exceptional spellpower and crit, and also combined in a set that has many useful stats, they are difficult to get, but an extra dot doesn't help me much. It is possible that I will change the set in the future, because there are other alternatives, but not for the red dragon armor. For me it's not worth it. If it goes well for you, great.
You don't need +6 DC in every single school, Fisto. Spell mastery gives you +5, I reserve that +6 for the most important ones. That said, between this and the GH DC augments they eat up a lot of my augment slots, yes.
Every wizard values having spell points, but depending on how you play you will need more or less. You don't need 7K spell points if you are playing in groups or on low difficulty, because you won't spend them. But if you play alone on high difficulty, with less than 6K you will not have enough to finish the quest. There you do much less damage and the enemies have much more life. That's why I value the LGS set, which are two well-used items because they give me that and other things. And when I say that you don't value them because you don't need that many spell points but I do value them because it's something I need, it's not a criticism of you. It's not being condescending. It's a fact that we play differently, Fisto. You don't play high reaper, I do. And none of that makes one better or worse than the other.
And I remind you that you were the one who made fun of LGS items being useful. Do you find it strange that I tell you that although you don't value those stats, I do value them?
I'm not really trying to convince you, I'm not interested in you or anyone else changing their gear. I have explained what things work for me, and why. I have pointed out that the efficiency of the gear set up depends on each person's playstyle. And that's it. If you like your set up, great. I can tell you that if I used what you said I wouldn't be able to do the things I do now, but I don't want you to change the way you play. This is a game, play as you like the most.
I don't know, Fisto, you're laughing at my choices, but I solo high reaper with my wizard. I know something about this, don't you think? Instead of making fun of me, how about you analyze my arguments? I don't mean to have any patronizing tone with you, and if you've felt that way, I apologize, but do you realize that you've been laughing at my comments from the beginning? But I also have no reason to be angry with you, I don't think there is any reason to.
Last edited:
I think there are some interesting points in this thread (legendary affirmation is awesome!), but one thing I wanted to mention: a lot of the gear guides I see are assuming you are manipulating the filigree stacking on your weapon and artifact, which gives you a lot more breathing room in the DC department. Even more so if you have the +2 int raid filigrees.