SlayerOfDungeons
Well-known member
I have a character build that would be best using 3 different enhancement trees. Can this be done??
How many advancement trees can 1 character effectively use?
- Thread starter SlayerOfDungeons
- Start date
Misadventure
Killing everybody on Hardcore with pleasure.
1 tier 5 capstone
1 tier 5 + tier 2
1 tier 4 + tier 3
2 tier 3 + 1 tier 2
4 tier 2
7 tier 1
SlayerOfDungeons
Well-known member
Thank You very much for the reply.
Misadventure
Killing everybody on Hardcore with pleasure.
Basically its playing around with 80ish points, how you spread it around is another story.
The higher the tier the more you must invest to unlock, the problem is its never enough.
SlayerOfDungeons
Well-known member
You're right about it not being enough. It's better to multiclass to get what I want, except no it isn't.
I'm darned if I do and darned if I don't. So I guess I'm going to have to just be subpar at everything just because the game says so.
Feels bad.
I'm darned if I do and darned if I don't. So I guess I'm going to have to just be subpar at everything just because the game says so.
Feels bad.
Buddha5440
Well-known member
Yeah, in DDO, much like D&D, you can't be a master of everything you want, you have to pick and choose what your strengths are going to be... It's not the game's fault.
Misadventure
Killing everybody on Hardcore with pleasure.
Well d&d has always been like that, I always wondered how many points people like Elminster have.
SlayerOfDungeons
Well-known member
Yeah, I get that I need to pick and choose. It's just gonna take a long time to figure this out and I was hoping to play tonight with this build.
But... I'll figure out something. I'm sure I can make this work in my favor.
Thanks for the help everyone! I really appreciate it.
But... I'll figure out something. I'm sure I can make this work in my favor.
Thanks for the help everyone! I really appreciate it.
Misadventure
Killing everybody on Hardcore with pleasure.
Well you can always reset it, it just cost money... In game money, not real money.
Enoach
Well-known member
Considerations
1. If wanting a Capstone in a tree that is a minimum 41 points
2. If wanting a Tier 5 ability in a tree that is a minimum 31 points (32 if it is a two point item)
If capstone in 1 tree and tier 5 in another you spend at a minimum 72/73 points leaving 8/7 points in a third tree
Now there are Universal Tree points that can help if a universal tree is in the mix.
A point if one of the Trees is a Racial Tree there is the Racial PL (3x) and Racial Enhancement Tome to help fill those, which could free points to be used in other trees.
So, knowing the abilities you want in a tree and what trees are available, does the 80 points Fit?
1. If wanting a Capstone in a tree that is a minimum 41 points
2. If wanting a Tier 5 ability in a tree that is a minimum 31 points (32 if it is a two point item)
If capstone in 1 tree and tier 5 in another you spend at a minimum 72/73 points leaving 8/7 points in a third tree
Now there are Universal Tree points that can help if a universal tree is in the mix.
A point if one of the Trees is a Racial Tree there is the Racial PL (3x) and Racial Enhancement Tome to help fill those, which could free points to be used in other trees.
So, knowing the abilities you want in a tree and what trees are available, does the 80 points Fit?
PurpleSerpent
Monster Hunter of Moderate Renown
It's possible to build perfectly viable characters without tomes using 2 or even 3 enhancement trees as long as you don't spread your points too widely. You're best off shooting for a capstone in one tree and splitting the leftover points between the others. You might even want to put a couple of points into your racial tree, if you don't have any Racial Points from Past Lives. Using more than three class enhancement trees is probably a bad idea.
One other thing - some trees have extra bonuses for each Core Ability unlocked in that tree, or each Action Point spent in that tree. These can be quite powerful, so bear them in mind.
(And don't worry about the reset cost - it's a tiny amount of platinum once you've picked up a few levels.)
FaustianBargain
Well-known member
It’s 100% possible to have a viable and fun character with APs spread across multiple trees from a few classes. As mentioned, a lot of the power in the enhancement trees is backloaded though. The first 5 or 10 points you spend in a tree generally don’t have much impact after low levels, but those abilities that are gated at 20 or 30 points spent or at 12 or 18 class levels are very powerful. So you always have to consider the opportunity cost of what you could get with more focus in a single tree.
You do want to be careful when picking enhancements from different trees to be sure they’ll stack. Sometimes they’re locked out (you can’t take divine might and know the angles for instance), but not always and it’s a pain troubleshooting why your PRR or critical range aren’t as high as you thought they should be.
You do want to be careful when picking enhancements from different trees to be sure they’ll stack. Sometimes they’re locked out (you can’t take divine might and know the angles for instance), but not always and it’s a pain troubleshooting why your PRR or critical range aren’t as high as you thought they should be.
Archest
Well-known member
I would say it depends on what the gain is compared to the loss from the main class trees . Multiclassing is problematic in that you need to stay on top of the primary reason why you multi classed.
for instance rogue disable and search skills need to be maxed yet you only get 6 skill points when you take a wizard level.
it take 4 to keep them maxed. leaving 2 for wiz skills... as well the more rogue levels, the lower your maximum castor will be in higher level quests so you need to compensate for dc levels against higher dc monsters. but you have 2 levels in rogue so you can use a bunch or rogue skill points to teir 2 in any of the rogue trees. add sneak attack or hit die to staff ( if you use a staff) and the mechanics as well to aid in keeping up the disable and search skills.
for instance rogue disable and search skills need to be maxed yet you only get 6 skill points when you take a wizard level.
it take 4 to keep them maxed. leaving 2 for wiz skills... as well the more rogue levels, the lower your maximum castor will be in higher level quests so you need to compensate for dc levels against higher dc monsters. but you have 2 levels in rogue so you can use a bunch or rogue skill points to teir 2 in any of the rogue trees. add sneak attack or hit die to staff ( if you use a staff) and the mechanics as well to aid in keeping up the disable and search skills.
My current project is a first life Drow Fighter 12 / Rogue 8 is spread across 4 heroic trees, none in the racial.
Majority of points 37 in Kensei, 23 points in Stalwart, 13 points in Assassin for poison imbue and 3 tiers of extra SA dice, 7 points into Mechanic for +skills in the first tier. The reason I sprung for the extra SA dice is because it brings me up to 20d6 SA dice once I throw Shadowdancer tree and Scion of the Ethereal Plane on top. Which adds to the un-typed damage of the Shadow Strike faux-imbue. Before level 23 those points in Assassin were in Mechanic.
And similarly my epic enhancement trees are majority in Shadowdancer, like 12 points into Unyielding Sentinel for 3 cores / resistances / minor healing, and 7 points into Draconic Incarnation for 1 core / max Draconic Perception and max Dragonhide in the first tier. Which gives me nice chunky adds to the saves, no fails on rolling a 1 on fortitude, and big amounts of spot/search/etc. Will say that I used the wand/scroll mastery in Mechanic for heroics early on but reset out of using it once I got the version Shadowdancer has. (They don't stack...)
And effectively I can solo without even a henchman on EH for things like walk-up quests three levels above my character. Reaper though I definitely want a party around simply because the jump in enemy offense values is so high.
With that said, generally a pure class build will want to confine itself mostly to two heroic trees because of the sheer power of cores at the bottom. My wide point spread in the heroic trees on the multi-class build is functional because of how Shadowdancer ties everything together. And in mid heroics that character was mostly in Kensei and Mechanic.
Majority of points 37 in Kensei, 23 points in Stalwart, 13 points in Assassin for poison imbue and 3 tiers of extra SA dice, 7 points into Mechanic for +skills in the first tier. The reason I sprung for the extra SA dice is because it brings me up to 20d6 SA dice once I throw Shadowdancer tree and Scion of the Ethereal Plane on top. Which adds to the un-typed damage of the Shadow Strike faux-imbue. Before level 23 those points in Assassin were in Mechanic.
And similarly my epic enhancement trees are majority in Shadowdancer, like 12 points into Unyielding Sentinel for 3 cores / resistances / minor healing, and 7 points into Draconic Incarnation for 1 core / max Draconic Perception and max Dragonhide in the first tier. Which gives me nice chunky adds to the saves, no fails on rolling a 1 on fortitude, and big amounts of spot/search/etc. Will say that I used the wand/scroll mastery in Mechanic for heroics early on but reset out of using it once I got the version Shadowdancer has. (They don't stack...)
And effectively I can solo without even a henchman on EH for things like walk-up quests three levels above my character. Reaper though I definitely want a party around simply because the jump in enemy offense values is so high.
With that said, generally a pure class build will want to confine itself mostly to two heroic trees because of the sheer power of cores at the bottom. My wide point spread in the heroic trees on the multi-class build is functional because of how Shadowdancer ties everything together. And in mid heroics that character was mostly in Kensei and Mechanic.
Chiefvisigoth
Active member
It seems like a pretty good mix. Not sure if you are aware of the DDOBuilder program that Matrim has out there. It is a good tool for playing around with builds. It can be downloaded here https://github.com/Maetrim/DDOBuilder/releases
If you want some further explanation on its use I suggest going to Youtube and just type in search DDOBuilder. It will give you a few videos on how it works.
If you want some further explanation on its use I suggest going to Youtube and just type in search DDOBuilder. It will give you a few videos on how it works.
ForeverZero
Well-known member
Honestly builds are so diverse even if youre not the best, you can still be pretty close to it. I utilize 5 trees typically around there for most my builds. Its a balancing act. You need to learn what works and what doesnt. Its not what most people want to do or learn. So most people just stick to pures. Which in and of itself is fine. Theyre usually pretty good at something. But knowing what can be tossed out and getting better benefits elsewhere is another story.
Archest
Well-known member
Rogue 7 Wizard 7 and Ranger 6
Sneak attack to hit +26
Sneak attack damage +29
23d6 sneak attack dice
(many shot , shot on the run ..
Horizon walker tree
Improved shield (+10 PRR)
Improved mage armor +10% AC
Bleed them out melee and bleed the weak ranged
melee power 88
Ranged power 138
73% chance for double shot
9% double strike
dark hunter - deep woods stalker -horizon walker -assassin - eldritch knight - mechanic
+79 disable device
+95 search ( Elf keen senses 1 of 3)
+6 action boost
28 points adventurer. 1st life.
Sneak attack to hit +26
Sneak attack damage +29
23d6 sneak attack dice
(many shot , shot on the run ..
Horizon walker tree
Improved shield (+10 PRR)
Improved mage armor +10% AC
Bleed them out melee and bleed the weak ranged
melee power 88
Ranged power 138
73% chance for double shot
9% double strike
dark hunter - deep woods stalker -horizon walker -assassin - eldritch knight - mechanic
+79 disable device
+95 search ( Elf keen senses 1 of 3)
+6 action boost
28 points adventurer. 1st life.
Buddha5440
Well-known member
Agreed on the first part about diversity and balancing...Firmly disagree on the second part about "people just stick to pures.".
The first thing you need to decide is...which tree do you want tier 5 in (means a minimum of 30+ AP, up to 41 for some)? After that, you're looking at how many levels you need in another class to access whatever enhancement (ie. Rng lv 6 for "Sniper Shot" is almost a must if you are a ranged multi with Ranger.).
The_Apocalypse
Well-known member
I think it is a maximum of 6 Class-based/Universal and 1 Racial trees.