Knock spell

Drunken.dx

Drunken.dx

Well-known member
Planning on doing svirfneblin life (20 wiz) next, and I'm curious if knock is worth using or waste of slot in high heroics/epics.

Can you buff it enough to reliably unlock in epic?

Ir does it scale poorly (I know wands are useless past certain level)
 
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Pineapple

Well-known member
Current running a 20wiz deep gnome and with no investment in it, I've had mixed success in heroics. Random doors and chests while leveling were no issue but some of the more difficult ones I couldn't get (the door in heroic flesh makers being one)

At cap I find it useful enough, still with no investment in it, that I wouldn't swap something else for it
 
Ahpuch

Ahpuch

Well-known member
Knock is limited due to the challenge getting the DC up high enough. It would benefit greatly if it could get Transmutation DC boosts applied. But as it is, better to use a hireling. If Darling can't get it, you are unlikely to knock it.
 
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Blunt Hackett

Well-known member
Ahpuch said:
Knock is limited due to the challenge getting the DC up high enough. It would benefit greatly if it could get Transmutation DC boosts applied. But as it is, better to use a hireling. If Darling can't get it, you are unlikely to knock it.
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I'm surprised how many heroic Frogo can do too. Of course, I have 3 Druid past lives, Augment Summoning, and Improved Augment Summoning, plus I throw a couple buffs on him.
 
Lazuli

Lazuli

Well-known member
Knock should be a spellcraft check, CL+ability bonus is an outdated system before we got spellcraft.

Knock is useful but for chests that do not have very difficult locks. The most difficult locks are impossible to knock. It really should be a spellcraft test, that would put it almost at the level of Open lock, with the right investment.
 
Onyxia2016

Onyxia2016

Well-known member
Lazuli said:
Knock should be a spellcraft check, CL+ability bonus is an outdated system before we got spellcraft.

Knock is useful but for chests that do not have very difficult locks. The most difficult locks are impossible to knock. It really should be a spellcraft test, that would put it almost at the level of Open lock, with the right investment.
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Agreed

Change like this would breath some new life into mostly forgotten spells.
 
S

Speed

Well-known member
It depends on difficulty mode, so you can compare your dc with summary table on wiki (not sure if reaper increases even more): https://ddowiki.com/page/DDO_information_project/Traps_and_locks

Lazuli said:
Knock should be a spellcraft check, CL+ability bonus is an outdated system before we got spellcraft.

Knock is useful but for chests that do not have very difficult locks. The most difficult locks are impossible to knock. It really should be a spellcraft test, that would put it almost at the level of Open lock, with the right investment.
Click to expand...

Spellcraft seems to be too much if we want to keep open lock as feature for specialized classes (not to mention that it is also available with dragonmark, so not only for spellcasters), but transmutation bonus would be nice addition.
 
dur

dur

aka Cybersquirt
Lazuli said:
Knock should be a spellcraft check, CL+ability bonus is an outdated system before we got spellcraft.

Knock is useful but for chests that do not have very difficult locks. The most difficult locks are impossible to knock. It really should be a spellcraft test, that would put it almost at the level of Open lock, with the right investment.
Click to expand...
Agree DC should rise but I'm not familiar enough with the lore.. :p

Haven't got my half-orc high enough to see what Smash Lock (or whatever it's called) does..

*Epic DC's goto 70+ Legendary, IDK
 
Lazuli

Lazuli

Well-known member
Speed said:
It depends on difficulty mode, so you can compare your dc with summary table on wiki (not sure if reaper increases even more): https://ddowiki.com/page/DDO_information_project/Traps_and_locks



Spellcraft seems to be too much if we want to keep open lock as feature for specialized classes (not to mention that it is also available with dragonmark, so not only for spellcasters), but transmutation bonus would be nice addition.
Click to expand...
Knock deserves to be as good as open lock, spellcasting is a feature from some clases too. In PNP knock is better than open lock, i dont ask for to be better than open lock, but yes on par. Dragonmark is a big investement too: feat, racial points and high spellcraft.

Clases who have open lock have a lot of other perks (disable device for example), and in DDO they have borrowed perks of other class. Artis have arcane spells that are from wiz/sorc list, not arti list, for example.

Spells deserve to be good too. And in PNP knock is a lot better. At least deserves to be on par than open lock.
 
Ahpuch

Ahpuch

Well-known member
Onyxia2016 said:
Who's there? Sorry had to say it.

Mixed success on this. Usually not built for transmutation DC's. Finding/Crafting some gear to swap when cast knock helps.
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What gear helps Knock? AFAIK, other than boosting your primary casting ability (Int, cha), nothing helps.
 
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Synalon

Well-known member
If you've properly maxed your casting stat, you should be able to knock almost everything. The only doors I can think that it won't get are the obscenely hard one in House of Death Undone while ERing, and Fleshmaker's in heroics. But trappers struggle with those also.
 
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Enoach

Enoach

Well-known member
There are a few spells that the DCs are not the standard calculation; Dismissal, Banishment and Knock are in this category.

Knock DCs are based upon
1. Caster Level
2. Your Caster's Primary Attribute Modifier

Each Caster Level you gain is a +1 to the DC. Arcane Augmentation can be used to boost your Caster Level See Arcane Augmentation Items
Each additional Primary Attribute Modifier is a +1 to the DC (Or +2 to the attribute)

10th Level
1d20 + 10 CL + 9 mod (22 base stat + 6 item) = 20 - 39
You will be able to get most locks for Base 8 quests at the Elite Difficulty (Level 10) - You may need to roll a few times. See "Traps and Locks" link below.

With Tomes and Arcane Augmentation and Past Lives the numbers get higher.
----------------

One of the main reasons using wands/scrolls of knock are limited is because they are considered cast from the lowest possible.

Scrolls and standard knock wands cast at Caster Level 3, with a 1 modifier (12 attribute is the minimum required for a level 2 spell)
This would result in -> 1d20 + 3, this will get low level chests as long as the lock DC is less than 24

For information on what DC is needed there is this resource on DDO Wiki Traps and Locks

Knock can work through most heroics with some outliers where the DCs are high (many of these have a key which is why they are high). Epics there are more locks that will exceed the Caster's Knock potential, but these are difficult by design and require a dedicated trapper well geared.

My opinion, Knock is worth having if you don't have any other option to open locks.
 
Drunken.dx

Drunken.dx

Well-known member
Forgot to update after my wiz life.

Generaly knock had its uses but even with bit of min maxing when it comes to int stat way to often i had to roll 15+ to unlock.

There were few points of int i could squeeze more but it would not make much of a difference.

If SSG threw knock a bone and made transmutation dc bonuses work with it, it would give major boost to its usefulness.

Overall its nice qol spell when you don't need to spend 500 SP to unlock something because you cant roll over 5.
 
dur

dur

aka Cybersquirt
This is why Bells of Opening are available in the DDo store and rogue hires are only available for plat, uh, after you have proven you are *worthy? (CR21)

*commited to spending more time/points/USD or whatever currency you use.
 
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