That ISN'T what the link you provided actually shows.
For example, it has fewer total level 20 instances than levels 17-19. On the other hand, it shows ZERO level 28 instances... so I'm not sure how accurate it is.
Lamannia Update 60 Preview 2 - New Update 61 Quests
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That ISN'T what the link you provided actually shows.
For example, it has fewer total level 20 instances than levels 17-19. On the other hand, it shows ZERO level 28 instances... so I'm not sure how accurate it is.
Sweyn
Well-known member
I failed to explain before that I am only talking about heroics. Epic quests/levels are completely different and the "base quest +2 discussion" does not apply in epics.
This got me thinking. I'm a huge math/statistics nerd and will be the first to admit spotty data. I decided to tally up total number of instances per level, as well as identify what quests weren't accounted for. Here's my takeaways on ddoaudit.com:
Quest instance data is incomplete. Specifically, it's missing all F2P quests and a few other P2P quests. Can we trust the numbers at face value? No, I will concede that, however I don't think the data is entirely useless either. If we can't use it on a quantitative level, what about a qualitative level? Spotty data, if consistently spotty, can still be used to look at big picture trends.
Looking at level 1-16:
Average number of instances per level: 152,576
Standard deviation: 58,045
There is undoubtedly a drastic drop in instances ran at the 17-19 level. Even if we can't trust these numbers quantitatively, the fact that these three levels differ from the average by over 2 standard deviations raises a question and requires an investigation.
Total number of instances:
Level 1: 201,406
Level 2: 28,377
Level 3: 272,075
Level 4: 136,177
Level 5: 237,843
Level 6: 130,249
Level 7: 215,644
Level 8: 107,950
Level 9: 92,374
Level 10: 124,616
Level 11: 115,796
Level 12: 128,778
Level 13: 140,385
Level 14: 178,386
Level 15: 178,507
Level 16: 152,658
Level 17: 47,420
Level 18: 25,965
Level 19: 18,930
Number of quests not accounted for per level:
Level 1: 10 (Korthos)
Level 2: 18 (F2P quests)
Level 3: 15 (F2P quests, Tangleroot, a few Catacombs)
Level 4: 11 (F2P quests, Tangleroot, Last quest in Catacombs,
Level 5: 10 (F2P quests, Tangleroot, Frosty Reception, Brood of Flame, )
Level 6: 15 (F2P quests, Sorrowdusk, Tangleroot)
Level 7: 11 (F2P quests, Free Delera, Sorrowdusk, Tangleroot, Grey Garl)
Level 8: 13 (F2P quests, Sorrowdusk, 2 TOEE quests, Level 8 IOD quest)
Level 9: 10 (F2P quest, Threnal, Sorrowdusk, VoN4)
Level 10: 9 (F2P quests, Threnal, Invitation to Dinner)
Level 11: 5 (F2P quests, Raven at the Door)
Level 12: 5 (F2P quests)
Level 13: 2 (F2P quests)
Level 14: 2 (Tower of Frost, Crucible)
Level 15: 7 (F2P quests, Missing)
Level 16: 6 (LoD chain, Mask of Deception, Growing Pains)
Level 17: 1 (Good Intentions)
Level 18: 2 (In the Demon's Den, Kill 10 Rats)
Level 19: 3 (Murder by Night, The Riddle, What Goes Up)
Again, even if we can't trust these numbers at face value, there remains an undeniable abnormality in the level 17-19 range.
So what can we take away:
On a holistic level, quests in the 17-19 level range are the least ran heroic quests in the game. This is consistent with the low numbers of level 19 players online at any given time and the rare LFM postings for these quests.
Even if you disagree with my recommendation to have quests be played at their base level, you cannot dispute that the combination of:
1. Running quests 2 levels below character level
2. Banking XP to level up 2 levels at once
leads to players potentially running quests 4 levels below them (i.e. getting to level 20 on a level 16 quest).
The above statement is indisputable. You can receive full XP for a quest while being 1 XP away from 4 levels above that quest.
What is not indisputable is whether or not my recommendation will be better for the game. What is not indisputable is what is the best way to get people to run more 17-19 level content. I think my idea will be good for the game, but I'm willing to hear arguments on why it's not.
However, I am no longer going to debate whether or not level 17-19 is a dead zone; if people still think these quests are ran at the same frequency as other quests in the game, no amount of logic or numbers will convince them otherwise.
Falkor
Well-known member
Thanks for those numbers, it is a start. Interpreting the data is the next step. And that is if the data itself, is accurate.
I'm not convinced that when it is showing those quest levels that its showing those QUESTS at level. I'm thinking its showing people AT THAT LEVEL, playing quests.
19 has the lowest amount because people bank that CHARACTER LEVEL. It doesn't necessarily mean they aren't running level 19 quests. They aren't running quests when they are level 19.
A very important distinction.
I'm not convinced that when it is showing those quest levels that its showing those QUESTS at level. I'm thinking its showing people AT THAT LEVEL, playing quests.
19 has the lowest amount because people bank that CHARACTER LEVEL. It doesn't necessarily mean they aren't running level 19 quests. They aren't running quests when they are level 19.
A very important distinction.
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I believe this is the correct interpretation. I know that storm horns gets run pretty regularly. The problem is a lot of the 17+ quests are either difficult for their level, trash exp, or both. Its kind of like how mines of tethyamar basically doesn't get run, it's way overtuned for crap xp.
As for his hard-core gripe, hard-core is an entirely different playstyle. People play at the max over level because to not do so is foolish when the penalties are that high.
seph1roth5
Well-known member
I would run the what goes up chain more if the trek there wasn't ginormous. It's near impossible to join a group in progress, even if I knew how to get there (and I don't heh).
Vox
Well-known member
Yes however that is no suprise to anyone familiar with this game.
Consider that 20 was cap for a long time, and content like Devils of Shavarath & old epics were endgame, apparently designed to be challenging content for players to get their teeth into.
Then cap was raised and *way* more xp was added to the game & xp requirements were reduced, and quick progression incentives to build more and more past lives were introduced, so the more challenging grindy quest of course get skipped by preference and this appears to be incentivised by the add-ons & changes made by the dev team.
Honestly, I probably wouldn't mind if they gave at base level questing max xp, even if just to provide a change of scenery in the TR train. But it has to be worth it and make sense.
Being a student gopher and fighting basic enemies makes zero sense when you've just finished stopping a Daelkyr invasion, a lich ascending to godhood, the god figure of the warforged from rampaging through Xendrick, a powered up pit fiend, and a storm giant lich.
Aelonwy is correct.
Lazuli
Well-known member
Devs already made that change when reaper came out, and many players hated it deeply. It is not good to force people. You can actually play at base level if you want.
It would be much better received if a base 19 quest was heroic only on normal and designed as epic on hard/elite/reaper. That would make it immediately popular, as his hard/elite/reaper xp would be competitive, and honestly, we need more epic than heroic quests.
Why does a pack have to be heroic/legendary anyway? Why not create some epic/legendary packs? Think outside the box a bit, devs. Make the lv 20/legendary pack.
Oliphant
Well-known member
Level 17, 18, 19 quests should have better XP than they do as people don't really need to ever play them. They are harder than 16s. The 18 and 19 become not worth playing when people hit cap. More xp here would entice people to play these in heroics and epics. Would be nice as a high heroic to be enticed by the 18s with some better xp. Would be nice in low epics to consider 18s on Elite for *decent* epic xp. Fixing this xp pocket would be great because this is the weird nexus where level 32 buddies can play with level 18 buddies without total destruction of the xp for the 18s.
Uppsy
Well-known member
I completely disagree. Shavarath and Cannith have some of the best xp (IQ I agree with though)
Uppsy
Well-known member
The issue really lies that there’s just that much xp already that you don’t actually need to do much more after Sharn. Even less if you’ve banked up sagas. For me personally I really enjoy Reavers Refuge and Shavarath. I usually cap in Reavers Refuge so don’t get to move on to Shavarath. However people are saying that some of these quests have the worst xp when in reality this is quite the opposite, the only main quests with poor xp for their level is IQ/Dreaming Dark. With the new expansion quests being at the high end of heroics it is likely they will be not ran due to it being unnecessary as people may have capped already or do other stuff.
rabidfox
The People's Champion
I hope they drop the update soon or someone let me know if it's going to be a month or something so I can cut my losses waiting to TR
Given lam3 next week, it'll be at least 2 weeks.
Yes, but people could also run the new stuff INSTEAD of Sharn. Having a variety of choices at any given level is a good thing.
We also need to consider the other side of the cap. There are very few quests in the levels 20-25 range. Thus, running level 18 quests on Elite/Reaper may be a viable option for getting started on Epic levels... rather than finishing off Heroic.
People could run Reavers refuge, druid or high road INSTEAD of Sharn, and guess what, they are not doing them. They usually skip Tethyamar as well, and that chain is lvl 15. People will do quests for easy, fast xp, and sharn + cogs gives extra saga xp too. Mix it with Litany and Missing, and bammm, you are lvl 20.
And if you do heroic stuff on epic level for xp, you are a nooooob. Just do Spies R1, EE, EH, take lvl 21 and go to Underdark (from LOD to Demonweb), mix it with some good xp quests like VON 3, Wizking, OOB and you will be 25 in a couple of hours.
Ahpuch
Well-known member
And people will when they first come out. And then they will run what ever is optimal after that first time. With these new quests being level 18 and Sharn having great Saga XP I doubt that these new quests will fit the bill.
SSG should really get rid of this hard XP shift at level 20 and make the XP curve be continuous from 1 to 32. That goes for both quest XP and banking XP. If you can bank a level for 18 heroic levels there is no reason that I can see that you shouldn't be able to at level 19. They have made a start by getting rid of the reaper lockout for level 20s so they must see the issue.
Now they just need to make sure the XP for these new quests is competitive with level 20s and people will run these when they hit 20. If they get rid of the hard XP stop at level 20 and let one get XP as level 19 then people will run them as 19s as well. So while players may be unlikely to replace Sharn with these new quests they will run them if the XP/min is not atrocious like other level 18 and 19s.
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