Orchid Blossom 172k Crit after Update

H

Hobgoblin

Less Nerfy Nerfy more fixy fixy
Being serious here, from a couple of other threads, what it says the caster level is not actually correct
 
M

mikarddo

Well-known member
Here are the actual numbers I am getting (using my fire sorc).

I took off all my gear and turned off all stances / epl / whatever.
Base = 13.5 x 38 = 513 (or maybe 13.5 x 26 = 351)
Multipliers: mp = 1.82 and fp = 4.23
Total non-crit should be 513 x 1.82 x 4.23 = 3949 (with 38 cl) or 2702 (with 26 cl).
I am getting 5.4k non-crits, so it seems it could be 26 cl and another x2 for some reason I cannot figure out.

I then added all my gear.
Base is still 351 (assuming cl 26)
Multiplies are: mp=1.97, fp = 8.32 and force crit mult = 2.45
Total non-crits should be 351 x 1.97 x 8.32 = 5061
Total crits should be 5061 x 2.45 = 12401
I am getting 11k non-crits and 29k crits, so I am missing more than a factor 2 here.

Bed time for. I cannot seem to crack this one for now. I foresee a nerf pretty soon though.
 
Desirdes

Desirdes

Well-known member
mikarddo said:
Here are the actual numbers I am getting (using my fire sorc).

I took off all my gear and turned off all stances / epl / whatever.
Base = 13.5 x 38 = 513 (or maybe 13.5 x 26 = 351)
Multipliers: mp = 1.82 and fp = 4.23
Total non-crit should be 513 x 1.82 x 4.23 = 3949 (with 38 cl) or 2702 (with 26 cl).
I am getting 5.4k non-crits, so it seems it could be 26 cl and another x2 for some reason I cannot figure out.

I then added all my gear.
Base is still 351 (assuming cl 26)
Multiplies are: mp=1.97, fp = 8.32 and force crit mult = 2.45
Total non-crits should be 351 x 1.97 x 8.32 = 5061
Total crits should be 5061 x 2.45 = 12401
I am getting 11k non-crits and 29k crits, so I am missing more than a factor 2 here.

Bed time for. I cannot seem to crack this one for now. I foresee a nerf pretty soon though.
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I think I see why your math seemed off. If you accidentally did 197 mp -> 1.97 and 832 fp -> 8.32 it would be wrong as those need to be 1 higher each.
My math assuming that and it being based on character level rather than caster levels comes to 13.5*32*2.97*9.32 = 11.9k non-crit and and 13.5*32*2.97*9.32*2.45 = 29.3k crit which matches your in game numbers.
 
M

mikarddo

Well-known member
Desirdes said:
I think I see why your math seemed off. If you accidentally did 197 mp -> 1.97 and 832 fp -> 8.32 it would be wrong as those need to be 1 higher each.
My math assuming that and it being based on character level rather than caster levels comes to 13.5*32*2.97*9.32 = 11.9k non-crit and and 13.5*32*2.97*9.32*2.45 = 29.3k crit which matches your in game numbers.
Click to expand...

I didnt. My sorc has 97 mp and 732 force spell power. It could be 32 though for character level as you mention. That certainly helps some.

Interesting, how your suggestion would match the numbers seen though, but it does not fit the "no-gear" case well, so it is probably just coincidental.
 
Desirdes

Desirdes

Well-known member
mikarddo said:
I didnt. My sorc has 97 mp and 732 force spell power. It could be 32 though for character level as you mention. That certainly helps some.
Click to expand...
Hm in that case I wonder what is giving it that extra kick. My dream is one day they give us an option to get an 'advanced combat log' that includes full breakdown of bonuses taken into account for calculations. Heck that would even make it easier to players themselves to narrow down bugs related to calculations.
EDIT - I wonder if it is treating it as a 20 mcl spell but then there is an override to change it to use character level but the 20 caster levels are still in play even if it no longer takes mcl boosts like what we get every other epic/legend level.
This would end up being around 13.5*(32 + 20)*1.97*8.32*2.45 = 28.19k average crit being able to hit as high as 33.4k on max roll.

Alternatively it could be mcl based and rolling it twice for 13.5*(26+26) which leads to exact same numbers. I think the likelihood of applying caster levels twice due to some code typo could be the issue.
 
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Desirdes

Desirdes

Well-known member
Desirdes said:
Hm in that case I wonder what is giving it that extra kick. My dream is one day they give us an option to get an 'advanced combat log' that includes full breakdown of bonuses taken into account for calculations. Heck that would even make it easier to players themselves to narrow down bugs related to calculations.
EDIT - I wonder if it is treating it as a 20 mcl spell but then there is an override to change it to use character level but the 20 caster levels are still in play even if it no longer takes mcl boosts like what we get every other epic/legend level.
This would end up being around 13.5*(32 + 20)*1.97*8.32*2.45 = 28.19k average crit being able to hit as high as 33.4k on max roll.

Alternatively it could be mcl based and rolling it twice for 13.5*(26+26) which leads to exact same numbers. I think the likelihood of applying caster levels twice due to some code typo could be the issue.
Click to expand...
Nevermind my schizo talk I think I realized the simplest explanation. Either it is scaling with double mp/rp even though it does not state it, or the double damage on certain targets is being applied to everything instead.
 
Buddha5440

Buddha5440

Well-known member
Titanreaper23 said:
The scary thing is, it can be used in PVP It bypasses Spell Absorb, it bypasses saves everything ... but force absorption does reduce its damage
Click to expand...
What percentage of DDO players do you think actually participate in PvP? I'd guess maybe 1-5% (5% being an absurdly high possibility).
 
Buddha5440

Buddha5440

Well-known member
Titanreaper23 said:
Doesnt mean you have a say for 100% of the population, some may do ...just not on your server
Click to expand...
What made you think I thought I was speaking for 100%??? I asked a question and gave my guess as to the answer. I didn't say anything like 'As everyone knows' or the like. Also I play on all servers at times to get more free points when new content comes out.
 
Drunken.dx

Drunken.dx

Well-known member
Hmmmm...

After all the complaints here I expected every build to struggle with quests on normal, and here we have opposite...

I'm only half sarcastic, every time SSG nerfs something and buffs something else we ignore buffs and focus on the nerfs.

I really need to TR back to archer to see how hunt's end works now.
 
Mystra

Mystra

Goddess of Magic
U66 is basically a gift to archers oit there. Everyone else to varying degrees got nerfed with the "buffs" beng head-fakes that most veterans of the game instantly saw as gimmicks.
 
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