Pushing toward Planescape?

R

Ratman

Well-known member
With the releasing the Illithid invasion and some curiously named (astral) dungeons, the time to consider the Gith is perhaps right now.

Weather -yanki or -zerai, I envision a path based racial tree, where one chooses the bonuses of the Githyanki or Githzerai with a common core 1 that branches dependent on which path is chosen.

I see potential in making two iconic FVS’ as Wisdom and Strength are the two paths Gith can go dependent on Y or Z varieties.

Psionics… but not. Wisdom or Strength based SLA’s.

SLA cores such as Misty Step or DD could be common, but Shield (I would make it somewhat better than the spell or other SLA, and perhaps have that be the STR based one with a tiering of that spell in T-1 and ending in T-5) seems like a great choice for a Martial tier. Perhaps adding a Trip to enemies in a small immediate radius or cone in front of you when you first activate the shield or when blocking with the shield activated and maybe some sort of cooldown so it can’t proc constantly.

Command (with upgraded effects, like adding 5% stacking incorporeality when casting it to play on the astral theme) seems like nice choice for some T1-5 treatment.

Upgraded will saves or a free feat like Bullheaded or Discipline seem like another universally useful Gith trait you could put in the tree branches to illuminate their resistance to Mind Flaying and their martial or Mental paths.

Maybe a Favored Enemy: Illithid core component as well, which seems only natural.

Given this is only speculation on my part (though I deeply wish to be proven correct) I think this would be an excellent choice for adding a new racial choice should Planescape occur or not, and most importantly, a chance for some fun, new gameplay & flavor.

I welcome anyone to building further these thoughts on the Gith.
 
Arkat

Arkat

Founder & Super Hero
Good God I hope we're moving toward a Planescape expansion instead of that awful abortion of a setting Spelljammer.

Please, please, please, dear Lord, keep the stupid ass space pirates away!
 
P

PurpleSerpent

Monster Hunter of Moderate Renown
Arkat said:
Good God I hope we're moving toward a Planescape expansion instead of that awful abortion of a setting Spelljammer.

Please, please, please, dear Lord, keep the stupid ass space pirates away!
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I wouldn't worry about it. Neverwinter has the rights to Spelljammer, and DDO very conspicuously avoids doing the same thing as Neverwinter. Hence the complete abandonment of the Cult of the Dragon storyline after Neverwinter announced it was adapting Rise of Tiamat.

I have mixed feelings on Spelljammer myself - elements of it are great fun, but it's always felt like more of a hectic mishmash than a real setting once you get out of a few established areas, and there are some real low points in the mix.

(Space clowns, for example. Must've been dark times, those 90's.)
 
Natashaelle

Natashaelle

Time Bandit
Ratman said:
With the releasing the Illithid invasion and some curiously named (astral) dungeons, the time to consider the Gith is perhaps right now.

Weather -yanki or -zerai, I envision a path based racial tree, where one chooses the bonuses of the Githyanki or Githzerai with a common core 1 that branches dependent on which path is chosen.

I see potential in making two iconic FVS’ as Wisdom and Strength are the two paths Gith can go dependent on Y or Z varieties.

Psionics… but not. Wisdom or Strength based SLA’s.

SLA cores such as Misty Step or DD could be common, but Shield (I would make it somewhat better than the spell or other SLA, and perhaps have that be the STR based one with a tiering of that spell in T-1 and ending in T-5) seems like a great choice for a Martial tier. Perhaps adding a Trip to enemies in a small immediate radius or cone in front of you when you first activate the shield or when blocking with the shield activated and maybe some sort of cooldown so it can’t proc constantly.

Command (with upgraded effects, like adding 5% stacking incorporeality when casting it to play on the astral theme) seems like nice choice for some T1-5 treatment.

Upgraded will saves or a free feat like Bullheaded or Discipline seem like another universally useful Gith trait you could put in the tree branches to illuminate their resistance to Mind Flaying and their martial or Mental paths.

Maybe a Favored Enemy: Illithid core component as well, which seems only natural.

Given this is only speculation on my part (though I deeply wish to be proven correct) I think this would be an excellent choice for adding a new racial choice should Planescape occur or not, and most importantly, a chance for some fun, new gameplay & flavor.

I welcome anyone to building further these thoughts on the Gith.
Click to expand...
I dunno, I think that there was an overreliance on setting versus sandbox from 3E onwards -- 5E has corrected that imbalance to a degree, but to say that "the Planes" are a setting ; instead of a toolbox for game designers and DMs and a sandbox for DMs and players is IMO rather self-defeating.

1E AD&D Manual of the Planes is a brilliant piece of writing, but it was also over-optimistic in terms of how much creativity individual gaming groups were prepared to provide (or even just put up with) in order to make the most of all that it contained.

But as a basic resource and foundation and multiplex template for creating multiple planar/extraplanar settings, it's unbeatable. It really should just be handed out as a free SRD usable by all gaming groups and licensees ; with the understanding that worlds like Eberron also exist with dramatically divergent internal Planar structures (though Eberron is connected with the other DDO worlds via the Astral Plane ; and the Underworld, which the Underdark and the Shadowfell and Dolurrh are all connected to ; whereas Eberron's Ethereal Plane is an isolate attached to Eberron alone).

But what made 1E AD&D Manual of the Planes so wonderful is that it posited the various extraplanar settings as being genuinely alien environments in relation to "normal" AD&D -- just as an example of what this should mean in DDO for instance, it's hard to envision a proper realisation of the Astral Plane without the Fly spell ; even though there are also liminal "hard" places inside it where it shouldn't work.

It should be possible for SSG to use this toolbox to create some genuinely divergent Adventure Packs or Expansion areas, where the rules of how things normally work in DDO would shift into something else in those places.

-- As to the Gith, just reading stuff yesterday makes it clear there's a design flaw in their 1E to 3E era retcon from their OD&D basics. Apart from the Githyanki and Githzerai, it makes no sense that there's no significantly large third group just wantig freedom from and outside of the political struggles, and just happy to have found their freedom. Or even a fourth group of those still enthralled to a lesser or greater degree, or even some cooperating willingly with the Mindflayers.

--

Off-topic, yesterday I discovered the 2E AD&D book Dungeon Master Option - High-Level Campaigns, and despite some misgivings from an initial scan, it really is the only decent official non-OD&D book published about levels 21+ ; notwithstanding the very much fun OTT level 100 AD&D module H4 Throne of Bloodstone.

Things I like most about the High-Level Campaigns book, is its resemblance to how we actually played AD&D levels 20 to 36 in our group ; and that there are some rules in there I wish we'd known about, as they would have made quite a few things easier at the time.

The OD&D and 3E+ approaches of making the Epic (21-30), Legendary (31-40), and Immortal (41-100) tiers somehow extra-special wherein you fight against and/or become gods reminds me of jokes we used to make about groups using the 1E Deities & Demigods as a Monster Manual ... it's just destructive of the game. BTW 1E Manual of the Planes used properly in conjunction with Deities and Demigods fixed that issue, at least for those copies of it not containing the Elric and Cthulhu content ...

--

As to Psionics in DDO, I think the only way to do them justice in DDO as to the powers and abilities would be through the Feats system ; the Psionic Defences should be Passive Stances to toggle between ; Psionic Attacks active Feats. Psionics should need neither a blue bar nor a yellow one, just some Feat cooldowns.
 
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Marshal_Lannes

Marshal_Lannes

Well-known member
If we are doing Planescape, I'd rather have Genasai. I guess there could be an issue of power creep if you had racial trees that gave elemental bonuses to spell casting, for example, all ice druids would suddenly be water Genasai. If care were taken, this is an interesting race, very magical, good appearance, and fits the theme. I'd prefer they not add psionics to the game. It will invariably be overpowered to start then will get nerfed 6 months down the road. Why go through that?
 
Dandonk

Dandonk

This is not the title you're looking for
Memnir said:
Probably the best written RPG of all time.
Click to expand...
I agree. I've played it time and time again since. I'm still completely in love with it. The characters, the humor... everything just works together so well.

Even though BG3 is a great game in its own right, there's just still nothing like PS:T.
 
Dandonk

Dandonk

This is not the title you're looking for
gravisrs said:
I just can't wait to introduce psionic mechanics in DDO.
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I love psionics. I do. I would love them in DDO.

But I think it would be a very large project, and would need some good ideas (mechanics wise) to distinguish it from the spell point system we already have in DDO.

Still, would be awesome. I doubt it'll happen, but I'd love if it did.
 
R

Ratman

Well-known member
Natashaelle said:
I dunno, I think that there was an overreliance on setting versus sandbox from 3E onwards -- 5E has corrected that imbalance to a degree, but to say that "the Planes" are a setting ; instead of a toolbox for game designers and DMs and a sandbox for DMs and players is IMO rather self-defeating.

1E AD&D Manual of the Planes is a brilliant piece of writing, but it was also over-optimistic in terms of how much creativity individual gaming groups were prepared to provide (or even just put up with) in order to make the most of all that it contained.

But as a basic resource and foundation and multiplex template for creating multiple planar/extraplanar settings, it's unbeatable. It really should just be handed out as a free SRD usable by all gaming groups and licensees ; with the understanding that worlds like Eberron also exist with dramatically divergent internal Planar structures (though Eberron is connected with the other DDO worlds via the Astral Plane ; and the Underworld, which the Underdark and the Shadowfell and Dolurrh are all connected to ; whereas Eberron's Ethereal Plane is an isolate attached to Eberron alone).

But what made 1E AD&D Manual of the Planes so wonderful is that it posited the various extraplanar settings as being genuinely alien environments in relation to "normal" AD&D -- just as an example of what this should mean in DDO for instance, it's hard to envision a proper realisation of the Astral Plane without the Fly spell ; even though there are also liminal "hard" places inside it where it shouldn't work.

It should be possible for SSG to use this toolbox to create some genuinely divergent Adventure Packs or Expansion areas, where the rules of how things normally work in DDO would shift into something else in those places.

-- As to the Gith, just reading stuff yesterday makes it clear there's a design flaw in their 1E to 3E era retcon from their OD&D basics. Apart from the Githyanki and Githzerai, it makes no sense that there's no significantly large third group just wantig freedom from and outside of the political struggles, and just happy to have found their freedom. Or even a fourth group of those still enthralled to a lesser or greater degree, or even some cooperating willingly with the Mindflayers.

--

Off-topic, yesterday I discovered the 2E AD&D book Dungeon Master Option - High-Level Campaigns, and despite some misgivings from an initial scan, it really is the only decent official non-OD&D book published about levels 21+ ; notwithstanding the very much fun OTT level 100 AD&D module H4 Throne of Bloodstone.

Things I like most about the High-Level Campaigns book, is its resemblance to how we actually played AD&D levels 20 to 36 in our group ; and that there are some rules in there I wish we'd known about, as they would have made quite a few things easier at the time.

The OD&D and 3E+ approaches of making the Epic (21-30), Legendary (31-40), and Immortal (41-100) tiers somehow extra-special wherein you fight against and/or become gods reminds me of jokes we used to make about groups using the 1E Deities & Demigods as a Monster Manual ... it's just destructive of the game. BTW 1E Manual of the Planes used properly in conjunction with Deities and Demigods fixed that issue, at least for those copies of it not containing the Elric and Cthulhu content ...

--

As to Psionics in DDO, I think the only way to do them justice in DDO as to the powers and abilities would be through the Feats system ; the Psionic Defences should be Passive Stances to toggle between ; Psionic Attacks active Feats. Psionics should need neither a blue bar nor a yellow one, just some Feat cooldowns.
Click to expand...

Dandonk said:
I agree. I've played it time and time again since. I'm still completely in love with it. The characters, the humor... everything just works together so well.

Even though BG3 is a great game in its own right, there's just still nothing like PS:T.
Click to expand...
Torment was absolutely awesome in its day. Some insightful comments here. thanks for the deep thoughts.
 
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