So Did the Changes to Tumbling make the Tumble spell and potions utterly useless now?

[Col Kurtz]

Yeah Thanks all you Metroid/Sonic Rolie Olie Polies!

I dont sit and watch videos of DDO streamers very often, but I caught one w Strim from months ago recently... Tumbleina'd all way to the dungeon, and through it. Unless dev's run with players, I would assume the streamers that were doing it is where they got a whiff of what the forum was babbling about in reference to tumble

 

[Mindos]

So it's his fault, again? Wasn't there something else that he got nerfed? Besides the light beams killing.

 

[PurpleSerpent]

So Did the Changes to Tumbling make the Tumble spell and potions utterly useless now?
I've used Tumble potions since the changes and they seem to be more a legacy item now that does absolutely nothing. If I'm wrong, please clarify and enlighten me as to why one would use the Tumble spell or Potions since they don't grant you any extra ability to tumble since you need hard spent points now to increase your number of tumbles......

Ranks in Tumble from the spell or potion will still decrease damage you take from falling, and increase the distance you move when you tumble, so they're actually pretty similar in function to what they did before the U66 tumble changes. It's just that since Tumbling itself is somewhat less useful now, the bonuses don't help as much.

 

[cursedblessedone]

Note to streamers if you find a useful feature please don't make videos to get something nerfed that us none Metroidian Sonicies end up being effected from your all going all Rollie Ollie Pollie on the game world.............

 

[Serasam]

So it's his fault, again? Wasn't there something else that he got nerfed? Besides the light beams killing.

Sonic Blast

 

[dur]

Tumbling grants Reflex save bonus. However, I am not sure if it's equal to your Tumble rank or the total Tumble score. If it's the score, then pots/spells do have a use.

It grants Reflex save bonus of your Tumble score, not rank. So if you have 100 Tumble score, you get +100 Reflex. So Tumble boosts definitely still give a bonus.

J1NG

Really? That's something, I guess.

Its far more useful for getting through traps, since you know exactly where they are and when to start tumbling. Tumbling through them with a huge bonus to Reflex is a good way to make sure you always save for half damage.

It's useful if you have enough charges (or can tick a second off in yer head, exactly, while yer getting bashed by something..) still too used to old tumble n getting my arse handed to me (and (n) not liking it, at all. ) I hope they're not done "tweaking it."

So it's his fault, again? Wasn't there something else that he got nerfed? Besides the light beams killing.

Tumble was hammered because of EXPLOIT @ EPIC. **--which is dead, btw.. and/or the experiment went horribly awry and it cannot be undone.




You know, "spaghetti code?"

 

[dur]

Note to streamers if you find a useful feature please don't make videos to get something nerfed that us none Metroidian Sonicies end up being effected from your all going all Rollie Ollie Pollie on the game world.............

That was just the final egg-in-face moment. Check older quest vids n you'll see they zoom w/o exploit. Just good, old-fashioned, tactics.

People/Gamers will ALWAYS find a way to go faster. SSG hammered tumble into whatever it is now n I fear what they hammer next. But yeah, I wish they'd keep some things to themselves.

 

[PraetorPlato]

Really? That's something, I guess.


It's useful if you have enough charges (or can tick a second off in yer head, exactly, while yer getting bashed by something..) still too used to old tumble n getting my arse handed to me (and (n) not liking it, at all. ) I hope they're not done "tweaking it."


Tumble was hammered because of EXPLOIT @ EPIC. **--which is dead, btw.. and/or the experiment went horribly awry and it cannot be undone.




You know, "spaghetti code?"

Tumble was changed because starting from level ...2? 5? idk, very low. you could hit horse speeds in quest through the extremely complicated exploit of "when possible after tumbling, tumble again". By mid-heroics, you could comfortably exceed horse speed. By cap, you could hit the equivalent of 300% move speed. Devs thought this was too fast for players to move.

 

[dur]

No.

*Well, partly. Biggest was exploit n that wasn't it.
**n that takes investment. and?

 

[droid327]

Tumble was changed because starting from level ...2? 5? idk, very low. you could hit horse speeds in quest through the extremely complicated exploit of "when possible after tumbling, tumble again". By mid-heroics, you could comfortably exceed horse speed. By cap, you could hit the equivalent of 300% move speed. Devs thought this was too fast for players to move.

You were not exceeding horse speeds unless you had Leap on top of Tumble, plus high Tumble

 

[PraetorPlato]

You were not exceeding horse speeds unless you had Leap on top of Tumble, plus high Tumble

nah, with 36 tumble I was abt 10% faster (clocked from corner of pyramid across house K bridge to same endpoint) with tumble than horse.

 

[cursedblessedone]

Yeah, I really wish they'd reduce the return rate for the tumbles cause I find when I needed a tumble the most, I am stuck F'ed standing trying to block and often dying when the old tumble kept me alive and I was never one to do the stupid sonic roll I feel punished for others using.......

 

[seph1roth5]

Ranks in Tumble from the spell or potion will still decrease damage you take from falling, and increase the distance you move when you tumble, so they're actually pretty similar in function to what they did before the U66 tumble changes. It's just that since Tumbling itself is somewhat less useful now, the bonuses don't help as much.

Actually it looks like tumble isn't doing it's job of preventing falling damage at ALL right now. I took a ~20' fall the other day on someone with 50+ tumble and they took like...30 damage.

 

[Col Kurtz]

Actually it looks like tumble isn't doing it's job of preventing falling damage at ALL right now. I took a ~20' fall the other day on someone with 50+ tumble and they took like...30 damage.

easy fix>Don't Fall

 

[J1NG]

Actually it looks like tumble isn't doing it's job of preventing falling damage at ALL right now. I took a ~20' fall the other day on someone with 50+ tumble and they took like...30 damage.

Are you able to provide more information on this, as I and others have tested and found it works as before. Were you at medium or heavily encumbered state? How far did you fall (Where from to where?) What class makeup was your character that experienced the damage? Which server was you playing on where you experienced this?

J1NG

 

[_fully_carroted_]

good design imho.

No.

The design is bad because it was done reactively, that is without planning. The only mistake was that instead of reverting until they could create a better version of tumble, they created something on extremely short notice with minimal planning/QA effort.

You could choose to design the system so that hard points are required (same as for bards with perform) but that requires careful design work, just as the other major changes did (e.g. charges, cooldown, interaction with other systems, etc)

 

[dur]

u67 took care of 'falling damage' for me.

 

[ChaoticDrivel]

No.

The design is bad because it was done reactively, that is without planning. The only mistake was that instead of reverting until they could create a better version of tumble, they created something on extremely short notice with minimal planning/QA effort.

You could choose to design the system so that hard points are required (same as for bards with perform) but that requires careful design work, just as the other major changes did (e.g. charges, cooldown, interaction with other systems, etc)

Game design is an iterative process - particularly for an MMO that still lives and breathes. This necessarily entails "reactive" adjustments on a regular basis. This, in and of itself, isn't "bad". In fact, it's a very good thing. Otherwise we would be stuck with undesirable gameplay for a prolonged period of time.

Reverting to a previous version of a system each time you don't get it quite right, becomes unwieldy fairly quickly. You are also asserting that this previous incarnation of Tumble was superior. But many players - as well as the devs(it would seem) - hold a different view.

I can't speak to how much/little planning went on behind the scenes, or done by their QA team, as I just don't know. And it would be presumptuous of me. Perhaps you can elucidate us, if you do know.

 

[_fully_carroted_]

Game design is an iterative process - particularly for an MMO that still lives and breathes. This necessarily entails "reactive" adjustments on a regular basis. This, in and of itself, isn't "bad". In fact, it's a very good thing. Otherwise we would be stuck with undesirable gameplay for a prolonged period of time.

Some of what you're saying here is ironic regarding DDO. Iterative? Yes, of course... but the players' collective memory of major changes across DDO's life is not about iteration. More like "massive changes that break groups of builds that stay broken for many years".

Reactive? Balance changes are reactive, yes. And we've seen many of those. But there are plenty of dead zones in the game's skill trees, and entirely dead trees that stay dead for years.

Undesirable gameplay for a prolonged period of time? Well... yes. That is precisely what shows up. How long were throwers gone from the game after balance changes? How long was Shiradi just... not useful?

Reverting to a previous version of a system each time you don't get it quite right, becomes unwieldy fairly quickly. You are also asserting that this previous incarnation of Tumble was superior. But many players - as well as the devs(it would seem) - hold a different view.

I'm not asserting that the previous version was superior. That's a reading comprehension failure, or possibly just a strawman. Take your pick. Here's the quote; feel free to tell me where I asserted that the original system was superior:

...instead of reverting until they could create a better version of tumble, they created something on extremely short notice...

The old version was stable, well-understood, and didn't require any design effort. It didn't break the game, either. It would have been quite reasonable to say "We want to fix tumble, so next lamannia will include iteration on tumble" while reverting the heavily-abused experimental version.

I can't speak to how much/little planning went on behind the scenes, or done by their QA team, as I just don't know. And it would be presumptuous of me. Perhaps you can elucidate us, if you do know.

Perhaps I can be presumptuous and say "clearly not enough".

As a quick reminder of a couple of big ones, it came out with no UI, and it broke a variety of enhancements and ED skills. Hard to rely on buffs you gain by tumbling when you can only tumble every 12 seconds in a long fight.

Then the UI came out... and it's a grey rectangle with some green dots. You are not gonna sit there and say "gee, it's not obvious if they put much planning into this".

 

[Maxxus Thull]

Just putting this out there. In my several years of playing DDO on and off, I have yet to utilize tumble in ANY benefitting way.
All I saw it as was a summersault and backflip show off. This whole tumble update has absolute ZERO impact on my game. If someone was indeed abusing the tumble mechanics in a way that it was not intended, then yes this change was needed. We don't need "Metas" that are a thing if they were a bug or something.
Also, just wondering, other than fall damage, what is anyone actually using the skill for?