So Did the Changes to Tumbling make the Tumble spell and potions utterly useless now?

[cursedblessedone]

So Did the Changes to Tumbling make the Tumble spell and potions utterly useless now?
I've used Tumble potions since the changes and they seem to be more a legacy item now that does absolutely nothing. If I'm wrong, please clarify and enlighten me as to why one would use the Tumble spell or Potions since they don't grant you any extra ability to tumble since you need hard spent points now to increase your number of tumbles......

 

[ChaoticDrivel]

I get why they did it this way, and I agree with it. Actually training one's skill is where the extra charges come from, and it makes sense:

Giving someone more flexibility or athleticism magically, doesn't automatically give them the same technical prowess of an aerialist.
It rewards people who invest in it, while still allowing those who do not do so, to have some tumbling capabilities.

Tumble potions and scrolls should still buff your skill, which in turn, should still reduce falling damage to a greater degree. The Reaver's Fate raid is one place where this comes in handy.

 

[Vua]

I get why they did it this way, and I agree with it. Actually training one's skill is where the extra charges come from, and it makes sense:

Giving someone more flexibility or athleticism magically, doesn't automatically give them the same technical prowess of an aerialist.
It rewards people who invest in it, while still allowing those who do not do so, to have some tumbling capabilities.

Tumble potions and scrolls should still buff your skill, which in turn, should still reduce falling damage to a greater degree. The Reaver's Fate raid is one place where this comes in handy.

How do you know magic doesn't grant the technical prowess temporarily? Don't try to apply the real world to fantasy games.

 

[ChaoticDrivel]

How do you know magic doesn't grant the technical prowess temporarily? Don't try to apply the real world to fantasy games.

I don't know this for sure. But I assumed as much(for this specific case), since this is what the devs were going for when they designed it like this. And I think it's a fine compromise. Rewarding those who actually train the skills, instead of getting it from easy to acquire buffs, is good design imho.

If extra ranks(whether trained or buffed) gave a slightly larger tumbling distance - that could be cool too.

There's still work to be done for the Tumbling UI. But also for Thief Acrobat, and abilities like "Cloak of Night" from Palemaster, before we're in a satisfying place, with regards to Tumble.

 

[droid327]

The spell might still be enough to push you from the shorter somersault animation to the bigger diving roll animation. That'd definitely make your Tumbles more effective, even if it didnt give you more charges

 

[Ptalon]

People abused something in an unforeseen way.
People complained.
Devs decided to change it.
The change is horrible and hurts everyone who has ever tumbled.

 

[cursedblessedone]

Yeah Thanks all you Metroid/Sonic Rolie Olie Polies!

 

[Discount Gandalf]

The spell is too weak, it needs buffing. Not worth the spell slot as it is.

 

[seph1roth5]

They should beef up the tumble spell, make it recharge tumbles 1 sec faster or something.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

The spell might still be enough to push you from the shorter somersault animation to the bigger diving roll animation. That'd definitely make your Tumbles more effective, even if it didnt give you more charges

This. It still has situational utility.

 

[cursedblessedone]

That be a satisfactory change to the spell, aside from the altered animations you get for crazy high tumble skill, if it also made the timer recharge faster say 1 second faster every ten ranks? or every 3 or 4 levels

 

[Zvdegor]

They should beef up the tumble spell, make it recharge tumbles 1 sec faster or something.

Well if we go down this road, tons of spells could be upgraded for the same reason.

Just to mention a few:

• Natural Armos bonus spells
• Resistance boost spells
• Temp HP spells

Lots of these spells beg for modernisation and level scaling

 

[Striga]

Tumbling grants Reflex save bonus. However, I am not sure if it's equal to your Tumble rank or the total Tumble score. If it's the score, then pots/spells do have a use.

 

[J1NG]

Tumbling grants Reflex save bonus. However, I am not sure if it's equal to your Tumble rank or the total Tumble score. If it's the score, then pots/spells do have a use.

It grants Reflex save bonus of your Tumble score, not rank. So if you have 100 Tumble score, you get +100 Reflex. So Tumble boosts definitely still give a bonus.

J1NG

 

[Shardrena]

Note that Tumble only gives such reflex save boosts during it's animation. Or at least, that's how it worked last time I messed with using tumble.

 

[J1NG]

Note that Tumble only gives such reflex save boosts during it's animation. Or at least, that's how it worked last time I messed with using tumble.

Tests suggest it lasts 1 second on activation. But everyone's Tumble completes at a different rate depending on how high your Tumble score is. With a high enough Tumble, you could basically complete the animation and the buffs persist after until the 1s is up.

J1NG

 

[Shardrena]

Without frame perfect timing on when to tumble, I can't imagine a 1 second duration buff to reflex saves is all that useful. By the time you consciously know to dodge and have started tumbling, the reflex save has probably already occurred. Or it occurs after the buff expires.

That's one reason I concluded Tumble was a pointless skill to invest skill points and feats towards back in the day. The AC and Reflex Save boosts were too inconsistent to be useful. Meaning it was mostly good for moving a little faster in shallow water that hinders movement, or dodging a giant's overhead smash. Of the two, dodging the overhead smash was less annoying and more useful, but also didn't actually require investing in the skill at all to do.

 

[J1NG]

You don't need perfect timing for this new Tumble.

Each time you Tumble, the Reflex bonus is refreshed anew by 1s. This means that with 3 Tumble charges, you effectively had 2-3s worth of bonus Reflex whilst the Tumble happens, and given there is no longer a pause, you can just keep Tumbling through and keep that bonus throughout that series of Tumbles. And with higher Tumble scores, you can complete your Tumble animation sooner and thus trigger your next Tumble to keep the Reflex bonus up as you Tumble onwards (whilst lower score ones might have trouble finishing the animation before the buff runs out).

So any Tumble bonus most definitely can help with the use of Tumble.

J1NG

 

[Ptalon]

Apparently tumbling was overpowered.

 

[droid327]

Without frame perfect timing on when to tumble, I can't imagine a 1 second duration buff to reflex saves is all that useful. By the time you consciously know to dodge and have started tumbling, the reflex save has probably already occurred. Or it occurs after the buff expires.

Its far more useful for getting through traps, since you know exactly where they are and when to start tumbling. Tumbling through them with a huge bonus to Reflex is a good way to make sure you always save for half damage.