dur
aka Cybersquirt
Take that and shove it. As many have said it's the thing that keeps live game alive n always changing.
On top of classes n races, there's mixin' it up. Go play WoW if you don't like it, or whatever.
LOL way to start a fight..
SSG: Time to reel in 18/1/1 builds
- Thread starter TavernBrawler
- Start date
On top of classes n races, there's mixin' it up. Go play WoW if you don't like it, or whatever.
LOL way to start a fight..
Svirfneblin
Well-known member
No.
But capstones can use a buff to make them more effective and desirable.
But capstones can use a buff to make them more effective and desirable.
I will never understand why if someone takes the time.makes a build that works and they are having fun with it, people have to cry over it.Take that and shove it. As many have said it's the thing that keeps live game alive n always changing.
On top of classes n races, there's mixin' it up. Go play WoW if you don't like it, or whatever.
LOL way to start a fight..
More than half of the people I would CONSERVATIVELY guess think that it's always about the build and not the player.
About 15 years ago, people would see me play my cleric/tank build (The Rummby Build). They would try to play it and fail miserably. It's not always the car, alot of times it's the driver.
When we see someone cry about a build type in forums (in this case 18/1/1), it's not that the build is necessarily overpowered. It's usually that since they can't succeed with a build while others can, they want it nerfed.
Everyone has access to the same.builds.
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dur
aka Cybersquirt
To try and start a forum war o' course :cheers: or a revolution. ? Who knows these days, but after the tumble bs, I'm all in on Crafting.
J1NG
I can do things others can't...
I personally don't see a direct issue with 18/1/1 or other variant builds.
However, as with @Svirfneblin I do agree that given how SSG devs have previously gone with the mantra that "hard choices" should be made (including in character design choices), in far too many cases, the current Capstones are a far cry from being a "hard choice" when compared with going with other class splits, even as little as 1 level of something else just for the low hanging fruit there. So there is clearly something lacking with the Capstones as they are now.
Most Capstones are just +2 Dual Stat, or +4 Single Stat, and a little something else. But more often than not that extra little something else barely stands out in the world that is available for character design now in DDO. Especially once you factor in gear from Epics and onwards where it basically makes having a Capstone a moot point in many cases.
Whilst many forumers might be seeing the attack on the 18/1/1 split and it's variants, you cannot deny that many Capstones are not performing as they should; acting as something that is viable to aim for rather than go with a split that gives as much benefit or even more to your build. Rather than simply being a pat on the head for staying single class.
Adjustments to Capstones are definitely needed.
J1NG
However, as with @Svirfneblin I do agree that given how SSG devs have previously gone with the mantra that "hard choices" should be made (including in character design choices), in far too many cases, the current Capstones are a far cry from being a "hard choice" when compared with going with other class splits, even as little as 1 level of something else just for the low hanging fruit there. So there is clearly something lacking with the Capstones as they are now.
Most Capstones are just +2 Dual Stat, or +4 Single Stat, and a little something else. But more often than not that extra little something else barely stands out in the world that is available for character design now in DDO. Especially once you factor in gear from Epics and onwards where it basically makes having a Capstone a moot point in many cases.
Whilst many forumers might be seeing the attack on the 18/1/1 split and it's variants, you cannot deny that many Capstones are not performing as they should; acting as something that is viable to aim for rather than go with a split that gives as much benefit or even more to your build. Rather than simply being a pat on the head for staying single class.
Adjustments to Capstones are definitely needed.
J1NG
I get what the OP is saying and I agree to an extent. My solution would be:
Give melee bards a trance. Melee bard deserves a trance as much as FVS or CLR. Maybe make it a T4 or something.
Give Sacred Fist a CHR trance (same, maybe make it T4 so you can't splash Sacred Fist for evasion AND Divine Might).
Also, I'd love to see Falconer's trance moved to like T2 OR T3 so it didn't take so long to get to.
Also, if maybe you don't want Warchanter given a trance, maybe make their rage improve at Core 4, 5, 6?
I used to think rage was "Barbarian only" but Dragon Lord has changed my mind. I've yet to play Dragon Lord, but players I respect a lot on the Forums and in game seem to love it and I don't want it nerfed.
Give melee bards a trance. Melee bard deserves a trance as much as FVS or CLR. Maybe make it a T4 or something.
Give Sacred Fist a CHR trance (same, maybe make it T4 so you can't splash Sacred Fist for evasion AND Divine Might).
Also, I'd love to see Falconer's trance moved to like T2 OR T3 so it didn't take so long to get to.
Also, if maybe you don't want Warchanter given a trance, maybe make their rage improve at Core 4, 5, 6?
I used to think rage was "Barbarian only" but Dragon Lord has changed my mind. I've yet to play Dragon Lord, but players I respect a lot on the Forums and in game seem to love it and I don't want it nerfed.
Discount Gandalf
Active member
I'm very confused as to what you mean with regard to an 18/1/1 multiclass character having no place in D&D. Are you talking about the xp penalty for having such a wide gap, just arguing its not good, or am I missing something else? Plus, this game jumped the shark a long time ago with respect to it respecting the 3.5 D&D rules it is based on so can we really complain about anything related to that anymore?
droid327
Well-known member
Melee bards...nah, if you're a pure Bard WC or Swash then you're not really DPS, you're DPS/DC caster hybrid because you're probably also deep in Spellsinger and using your full Bard caster levels. If you want to build pure DPS then you're probably /5 DLord and then you have your trance. The lack of crit +range or +mult enhancements is a far bigger issue than the lack of trance for them.
Fist does really need a melee trance, that's far more of a handcuff to /1 FvS
I think Cleric really needs a CHA/WIS selector like FvS too...which makes the Falconry trance less of an issue, since that's really just for Shintao Monks then and they likely have the AP to spare (only one good tree)
Oh one other way to improve capstones:
A class that is a "hybrid" caster, which to me is one that doesn't have Level 9 spells...
Give then access to a spell they normally wouldn't get.
Spell Singer Bard currently gets Wail of the Banshee and Heal at level 20
Maybe if Paladin got Heal or Cure mass wounds of some sort.
What if Ranger got Regenerate or Rising Fury at level 20 as part of a capstone.
Maybe Arcotechnician could get Eladar's Electric Surge at Capstone
A class that is a "hybrid" caster, which to me is one that doesn't have Level 9 spells...
Give then access to a spell they normally wouldn't get.
Spell Singer Bard currently gets Wail of the Banshee and Heal at level 20
Maybe if Paladin got Heal or Cure mass wounds of some sort.
What if Ranger got Regenerate or Rising Fury at level 20 as part of a capstone.
Maybe Arcotechnician could get Eladar's Electric Surge at Capstone
PraetorPlato
Well-known member
Some capstones are really good, the rest are not quite there.
KoTC, Shintao, Henshin StalDef, SacDef, Savant, PM, Assassin are all in solid spots. Probably some more I'm missing.
dur
aka Cybersquirt
Yeah, for your bene
Thanks for the answer none-the-less.
J1NG
I can do things others can't...
I'm aware
But the issue is, how many of those is out of how many Capstones in total that one would be aiming for? ~8? Out of ~60 Capstones? That's a very small percentage of Capstones.
J1NG
PraetorPlato
Well-known member
Yeah, that's fair. A fair number of trees are kind of not worthwhile, but it's like 50/50 out of good trees (for instance, ravager capstone is not the thing making barb ravager 20 awkward, Ninja Spy capstone is totally fine, etc.)I'm aware
But the issue is, how many of those is out of how many Capstones in total that one would be aiming for? 8? Out of 60 Capstones? That's a very small percentage of Capstones.
J1NG
droid327
Well-known member
I dont think L4-max classes really count as "casters" like L6-max do, to warrant having capstone spells
Arcanotech could get Thunderstroke as a capstone though, sure. Their current capstone is hot garbage and Stormsinger gets it in their spellbook already. Eladar's is already pretty obsolete by L20.
Warlock gets TtS and Energy Drain. Those could probably be updated to something a little more enticing
dur
aka Cybersquirt
Is called "options."
One thing DDO prides itself on is it's build variety. If they amp up capstone, won't we just see everyone being single classed?
Kinda borring.
Full disclosure: I play both single and dual class toons. I see advantages and disadvantages with both.