@Torc: Some topics regarding quest EXP and optionals

lppmor

Well-known member
I just did the Vecna Unleashed quest.
I got around 17,000 exp from doing the quest, then I decided to try the optionals that require pressing some levers, etc.
  • (Optional) Slay Controlled Nightmare — Bonus (10%): Heroic Epic
  • (Optional) Defeat the Necromancy Professor — Bonus (10%): Heroic Epic
Extra steps to take:
- You have to press a few extra levers (that are actually easy to find, but whatever).
- You have to go back to quest entrance.
- You have to kill some more monsters (maybe you'll have to rest one more time) and spend more time inside the quest.

Reward: 600 exp for each optional.

So, my point is: (@Torc)

I understand the devs want to incentivize players to not rush the content, to try to pursue Conquest bonus by killing eveything, and so.
And I totally agree with that, I'm actually the first one to want to have a whole experience with the quests.
(for example, I always do ALL optionals on Tear of Dhakaan, that quest optionals are amazing and rewarding)
BUT...
600 exp ?? Seriously? On top of 17,000 exp for rushing the quest?

That's exactly the problem with optionals. Make them rewarding and people will do them.
 

Fhrek

One Badge of Honor achieved
ALL optionals on Tear of Dhakaan
Tears is pretty nice exemple how to do optionals right. Another quests I like to do the optionals is Total Chaos (KotB) and Invitation for Dinner (RL).
In both those quest the optionals synchronize well, keep the quests fluid and give nice exp.

Don't understand why most optionals throughout the game are so bad designed, give no desirable gear and give crap exp.
 

misterski

Well-known member
That's not even the worst of it. Optionals have permanent diminishing returns. So each time you complete an optional objective, the XP reward goes down for the next time you complete the objective until it reaches zero. TR does not reset this.
 

Titus Ovid

Mover and Shaker
TR does not reset this? Why do I still get xp for optionals I have done over 13 years now?

There was a longer discussion about optional xps recently. I asked Steelsar the other day, if there was a general concept for optionals and I am paraphrasing here: No and they get neglected because of datelines. At least that is what he experiences. (I need to find it on the discord again).

Cheers,
Titus
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
TR does not reset this? Why do I still get xp for optionals I have done over 13 years now?
I assume they meant epic reincarnation doesn't reset it; which isn't actually a TR. But for those doing the 20 back to cap grind, it's a shame they can't reset the optional XP on ERs.
 

Ahpuch

Well-known member
Optionals XP need a serious rethink but that won't be a quick fix. If they do a systems change to affect optionals across the board it will make those quests with good optionals way too good. If they changes them adhoc it is a lot of quests to change.

Since they are based on base XP without all the bonus % they come out way to low in most cases. If they give a bigger chunk to compete with first time bonus XP then they will be too high for subsequent runs (will they though? I am not certain but that is the concern). They may also be concerned about bumping up the optionals % on new content as that will make the problem harder to deal with if they decide to do something system wide.

They really need to do a change on how optional XP works (e.g. award them on completion with the % multipliers, make them a multiplier on quest bonuses, etc) but that is work they will likely never have time for. In absence of that work they should make the minimum for any optional going forward 25% and bump that up even higher for ones that take significant effort. 100% should not be off the table since that is only 100% of base XP.
 

Ahpuch

Well-known member
I assume they meant epic reincarnation doesn't reset it; which isn't actually a TR. But for those doing the 20 back to cap grind, it's a shame they can't reset the optional XP on ERs.

Because they made the optional XP attractive for a couple of quests they became very nice once the first time bonuses were gone. Since you can get them without completing the quest you could pick the XP up quickly. But it really was just a couple of quests where they were "a problem" yet they nerfed them across the board.

They should have looked at why they had to cap it and fixed the issue instead of the symptom (how often can we say that?). While your idea has merit it would continue the trend of addressing the symptom rather than the issue.
 

Titus Ovid

Mover and Shaker
Yep, the handling of Wiz King was a total overreaction in my eyes. I am still shaking my head over this decision.

Cheers,
Titus
 

Finngon

Member
Yep, the handling of Wiz King was a total overreaction in my eyes. I am still shaking my head over this decision.

Cheers,
Titus
Yeah this is my take as well. It was such an overreaction to a non-issue personally. (Something that could've been done with just a simple optional XP nerf to Wiz-King if it was really out of control - in exchange for many other quests' optional XP getting a big boost)

It just screwed a lot of the quests over for now reason, like Devil Assault.
 

Tesrali (sam-u-r-eye)

Well-known member
Ah yes. The timeless quest for "balance" that disregards "fun." Killing optionals to stop people macroing them in Crucible when eventually the right fix was made: award the XP only at the end of the quest. Make it chunky and proportional.

<3
 

droid327

Well-known member
Yeah I've been scratching my head about the Optional XP change for a long time now...

They claim they want to incentivize players not to just zerg quests....to play it through, clear the mobs, do the optionals. They claimed the optional XP decay change was intended to protect optionals from being exploitatively farmed, so that they could significantly increase the XP for optionals.

Yet the game they've given us does the opposite. Optional XP is paltry, which just encourages zerging, and the decay mechanic disincentivizes it even more. And new quest design shows zero intention to increase optional XP payouts compared to pre-decay. The best quests for optionals remain ones that are years old - more than a decade, sometimes. VoN3 is probably one of the best examples of how optionals should be done right. Tear. Lines of Supply/Breaking the Ranks. Overgrowth is a nice design too since it rewards you for doing the quest more effectively. Pretty much nothing in the "modern era" since Ravenloft. They should be plentiful and generous, and balanced against an R1 completion with all non-optional bonuses (ie around 400% base XP).

Really, "non optional" optionals that dont require deviation from the zerg line should be around 20% base. Optionals that require a little deviation should be like 40%. Optionals that require significant added time should be 60-80%. +10% for ones that dont always appear.
 
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