Total Past Life Benefits

[h46av8r]

Hi Folks,

Given we have new forums, a new epic destiny, and a new archetype since this was first posted, I thought I'd update this post: https://forums-old.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/538469-Total-Past-Life-Benefits. As before, here is a list of all the PASSIVE benefits you get from having all 189 past life feats. No active stances included. It does include the class and racial completionist feats since those are both now auto-granted once you earn them. This time I AM including in the skills total the bonus you get from the related additional ability score but I did NOT include impact of those ability score bonuses and skills to HPs, AC, Saves, Spell DCs, Spellpower, Spell Points, etc. since that starts to get a little complicated, e.g. depends on feat selection, casting class, etc. Hope this is helpful!

Ability Scores:
( Bonus shown after the ability )
5 Strength (2)
8 Dexterity (4)
6 Constitution (3)
6 Intelligence (3)
6 Wisdom (3)
7 Charisma (3)

Action Points:
14 Racial Enhancements
10 Epic Destiny Points: 6 from Epic PLs + 4 copies of Epic Completionist

Skills:
( Showing total with contribution from PL feats and from ability bonus after )
9 Balance (5 4)
7 Bluff (4 3)
7 Concentration (4 3)
8 Diplomacy (5 3)
10 Disable Device (7 3)
8 Haggle (5 3)
8 Heal (5 3)
8 Hide (4 4)
8 Intimidate (5 3)
6 Jump (4 2)
7 Listen (4 3)
9 Move Silently (5 4)
8 Open Lock (4 4)
7 Perform (4 3)
11 Repair (8 3)
11 Search (8 3)
12 Spellcraft (9 3)
9 Spot (6 3)
6 Swim (4 2)
9 Tumble (5 4)
11 UMD (8 3)

Defensive:
66 HP (at level 1, increasing by 48 for every 10 levels, plus 36 at level 20 from permanent fate points, up to 246 at level 30)
30 AC (at level 1, increasing by 15 for every 10 levels, up to 75 at level 30)
3 Saves
45 PRR
21 MRR
3% Dodge
15% Fortification
15% Elemental Absorption
6 Elemental Resistance
45% Positive Healing Amplification
15% Negative Amplification
9 Saves vs Traps
6 Saves vs Enchantments and Illusions

Spells:
180 Spell Points (+18 at level 20 from 18 permanent fate points)
24 Positive Spell Power
15 Fire, Lightning, Sonic, Acid, Poison, Negative Spell Power
3 Evocation, Conjuration, Illusion, Transmutation DCs
9 Spell Penetration

Melee / Ranged:
3 Attack
3 Damage
3 Melee Damage
3 Sneak Attack
6 Sneak Attack Damage
6 Ranged Damage
3 Tactical DCs

Other:
3 Breath DCs
6 Wand DCs
3 Extra Bard Songs
3 Extra Turns
6 Caster Levels for Turning
6 Summons and Hireling Abilities

 

[Konsumer]

That's ten years of work for a casual player using no boxes.

 

[Jummby]

Hi Folks,

Given we have new forums, a new epic destiny, and a new archetype since this was first posted, I thought I'd update this post: https://forums-old.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/538469-Total-Past-Life-Benefits. As before, here is a list of all the PASSIVE benefits you get from having all 189 past life feats. No active stances included. It does include the class and racial completionist feats since those are both now auto-granted once you earn them. This time I AM including in the skills total the bonus you get from the related additional ability score but I did NOT include impact of those ability score bonuses and skills to HPs, AC, Saves, Spell DCs, Spellpower, Spell Points, etc. since that starts to get a little complicated, e.g. depends on feat selection, casting class, etc. Hope this is helpful!

Ability Scores:
( Bonus shown after the ability )
5 Strength (2)
8 Dexterity (4)
6 Constitution (3)
6 Intelligence (3)
6 Wisdom (3)
7 Charisma (3)

Action Points:
14 Racial Enhancements
10 Epic Destiny Points: 6 from Epic PLs + 4 copies of Epic Completionist

Skills:
( Showing total with contribution from PL feats and from ability bonus after )
9 Balance (5 4)
7 Bluff (4 3)
7 Concentration (4 3)
8 Diplomacy (5 3)
10 Disable Device (7 3)
8 Haggle (5 3)
8 Heal (5 3)
8 Hide (4 4)
8 Intimidate (5 3)
6 Jump (4 2)
7 Listen (4 3)
9 Move Silently (5 4)
8 Open Lock (4 4)
7 Perform (4 3)
11 Repair (8 3)
11 Search (8 3)
12 Spellcraft (9 3)
9 Spot (6 3)
6 Swim (4 2)
9 Tumble (5 4)
11 UMD (8 3)

Defensive:
66 HP (at level 1, increasing by 48 for every 10 levels, plus 36 at level 20 from permanent fate points, up to 246 at level 30)
30 AC (at level 1, increasing by 15 for every 10 levels, up to 75 at level 30)
3 Saves
45 PRR
21 MRR
3% Dodge
15% Fortification
15% Elemental Absorption
6 Elemental Resistance
45% Positive Healing Amplification
15% Negative Amplification
9 Saves vs Traps
6 Saves vs Enchantments and Illusions

Spells:
180 Spell Points (+18 at level 20 from 18 permanent fate points)
24 Positive Spell Power
15 Fire, Lightning, Sonic, Acid, Poison, Negative Spell Power
3 Evocation, Conjuration, Illusion, Transmutation DCs
9 Spell Penetration

Melee / Ranged:
3 Attack
3 Damage
3 Melee Damage
3 Sneak Attack
6 Sneak Attack Damage
6 Ranged Damage
3 Tactical DCs

Other:
3 Breath DCs
6 Wand DCs
3 Extra Bard Songs
3 Extra Turns
6 Caster Levels for Turning
6 Summons and Hireling Abilities

Looking at that list really puts things into perspective.

YES, we have some amazing guildies that make great 1st life builds to fill roles on raids done on reaper. I know many others that make very effective toons outside of guild without a million lives, as well.

That amount of bonuses is insane though. I can't see why any new player would bother with the game sadly with that amount of catching up to do on thier main toons.

 

[Fhrek]

Buckle up for the crowd saying "Past Lives don't matter"...

Yes, a new player/new or alt character can do everything in the game. But... when there is a cumulative progression gated by 10 years of gameplay (or thousands of $$$), it became kind ludicrous not ask yourself if worth invest in a game you will have no chance to use the full potencial of a character like we can in another games out there.

Is insane the amount of passive bonus past lives gives, which is awesome... but could be a bit front loaded in some areas (Racial enhancement tree points) or easy to get (True Reincarnation giving Racial + Class PL at once).

 

[Nickodeamous]

Past Lives do help for sure. (some more than others). Do you need them all? absolutely not to be effective. Is it nice to have that extra defense so you don't die? for sure!

As somebody that has been working on 2 toons for a long time, I learned the art of "doubling up"...way too late after I did it the "long way" on my main. What I mean by this, is that on my main I tended to do a PL here and there, but never did full runs from 1-30. I did 1-20 alot and then did 1-30, followed by 20-30 ETRs forever.

If I had to do it all over again, I would follow the "double up method below" where I essentially get all 189 PLs by running 1-30, 15-30, and 1-20. (see chart below for efficiencies)

You can do it in 108 runs (which sounds astronomical, and it is...thousands of hours) Below is an estimated time on purely robotically running through the leveling.

Factors not included (but not limited to)

• using XP pots/ slayer pots
• staying at cap to raid/run reapers
• learning curve of quests and efficiencies
• buddy boosts/soloing vs. grouping (below assumes mostly grouping)
• down time just chilling with friends
• I'm sure there is something I am missing...

all this aside, you could double this time EASILY. At one hour a day playtime, you would finish all the lives in about 10 years. (excluding any new grind they add). I play more than 1 hour a day on average. to put it in perspective, I have spent about 4 years on my alt now and have 150 or so past lives. I pretty much don't stay at cap ever with him as I leave my main there. I also invest in pots and this helps to get through lives quicker. To me, I have other things to do with family and friends, so saving time getting my past lives is time I can spend with them.

Anyway, this was alot. Thanks for listing all the bonuses! (again, we don't need them all to have a great time and be part of a great game!)

Total runs	runs	epic	racial	heroic	iconic	archetype	lives gained	average time	total hours
1 to 30	54	54	42	12			108	25	2,700
15 to 30	27	0	0	27	27		54	10	540
1 to 20	27			6		21	27	15	405
Total	108	54	42	45	27	21	189	21.7	3,645

Thanks,
Nic

 

[Konsumer]

Past Lives do help for sure. (some more than others). Do you need them all? absolutely not to be effective. Is it nice to have that extra defense so you don't die? for sure!

As somebody that has been working on 2 toons for a long time, I learned the art of "doubling up"...way too late after I did it the "long way" on my main. What I mean by this, is that on my main I tended to do a PL here and there, but never did full runs from 1-30. I did 1-20 alot and then did 1-30, followed by 20-30 ETRs forever.

If I had to do it all over again, I would follow the "double up method below" where I essentially get all 189 PLs by running 1-30, 15-30, and 1-20. (see chart below for efficiencies)

You can do it in 108 runs (which sounds astronomical, and it is...thousands of hours) Below is an estimated time on purely robotically running through the leveling.

Factors not included (but not limited to)

• using XP pots/ slayer pots
• staying at cap to raid/run reapers
• learning curve of quests and efficiencies
• buddy boosts/soloing vs. grouping (below assumes mostly grouping)
• down time just chilling with friends
• I'm sure there is something I am missing...

all this aside, you could double this time EASILY. At one hour a day playtime, you would finish all the lives in about 10 years. (excluding any new grind they add). I play more than 1 hour a day on average. to put it in perspective, I have spent about 4 years on my alt now and have 150 or so past lives. I pretty much don't stay at cap ever with him as I leave my main there. I also invest in pots and this helps to get through lives quicker. To me, I have other things to do with family and friends, so saving time getting my past lives is time I can spend with them.

Anyway, this was alot. Thanks for listing all the bonuses! (again, we don't need them all to have a great time and be part of a great game!)

Total runs	runs	epic	racial	heroic	iconic	archetype	lives gained	average time	total hours
1 to 30	54	54	42	12			108	25	2,700
15 to 30	27	0	0	27	27		54	10	540
1 to 20	27			6		21	27	15	405
Total	108	54	42	45	27	21	189	21.7	3,645

Thanks,
Nic

10 years... 5 if you play two hours a day which is a lot. 1 year and $10,000 cash if you box your way through. 8 months if you write a macro and magically find 189 boxes laying around.

 

[saekee]

doublestrike: Martial EPL 3x for 9%
aasimar 3x for 6%.
That is a huge 15% increase. (9+20- 2(10)+7-1)

 

[Weaponalpha]

10 years... 5 if you play two hours a day which is a lot. 1 year and $10,000 cash if you box your way through. 8 months if you write a macro and magically find 189 boxes laying around.

If it takes 5, 10 or 20 years who cares? What else are you going to waste, I mean spend your time on? I just accumulate pls as I play different builds for fun. Fun. You know? That thing games are meant to be about? I plan on using that free +20 heart we got ages ago after I use a +1 I got from a gold roll ages ago along with an alignment change which I will be forced to use may pts earned from VIP that I horde like loot to lesser my Bladeforge into a pure Barb. Why? Because why not? I'll sit at cap for about 3 days and get annoyed that even though I'm Chaotic Neutral I still am vulnerable to Quell effects and then get bored and tr into who knows what. Probably a caster since I'll be sick of hitting things with a stick.

 

[AbyssalMage]

After watching more than one person in the past week knock out 3xdragonlord lives I realize I "flower sniff" way too much.

 

[RTN]

Looking at that list really puts things into perspective.

That amount of bonuses is insane though. I can't see why any new player would bother with the game sadly with that amount of catching up to do on thier main toons.

People don't necessarily have to be at absolute peak performance to get enjoyment. I've kept a toon at endgame and play in reaper pugs and non-reaper raids that has maybe two heroic past lives and about the same in epic lives. It does just fine. I made it ranged to be more survivable. I have guildies that stepped away from the game for years and came back. They're enjoying the game of slowly adding past lives. Someone that absolutely must play at the highest level is also someone likely to grind hard to get there. The real danger is someone new trying to jump into a reaper pug, especially if they're melee. Until you get 21 reaper pts and get the extra hp, that can definitely be rough.

 

[rabidfox]

The fun is when someone on HC does more difficult content with a 1st lifer without dying over 3 months than some people do on their total completionist. At least past lives give nice long term goals and some nice carrot to tempt people to run the game over and over and over and over and over and...

 

[Konsumer]

If it takes 5, 10 or 20 years who cares? What else are you going to waste, I mean spend your time on? I just accumulate pls as I play different builds for fun. Fun. You know? That thing games are meant to be about? I plan on using that free +20 heart we got ages ago after I use a +1 I got from a gold roll ages ago along with an alignment change which I will be forced to use may pts earned from VIP that I horde like loot to lesser my Bladeforge into a pure Barb. Why? Because why not? I'll sit at cap for about 3 days and get annoyed that even though I'm Chaotic Neutral I still am vulnerable to Quell effects and then get bored and tr into who knows what. Probably a caster since I'll be sick of hitting things with a stick.

Last month, after a decade and a half of playing, I achieved heroic completionist. Who cares? Well, I did.

 

[Kyrr]

Last month, after a decade and a half of playing, I achieved heroic completionist. Who cares? Well, I did.

I applaud your achievement, it's no easy task.

 

[voenixa121]

The problem is not really the bonuses, its when the game gets balanced for people who have them all. Ever notice how every new quest gets harder and harder?

 

[Silverfox]

The problem is not really the bonuses, its when the game gets balanced for people who have them all. Ever notice how every new quest gets harder and harder?

Yet every hardcore season on first life characters all of the quests are completed by multiple players.

 

[Reaped and Ravaged]

 

[voenixa121]

Yet every hardcore season on first life characters all of the quests are completed by multiple players.

So what? Doesn't change the fact that it gets more and more annoying and less and less fun if you don't have the nerve to grind out those PLs. I wish people would stop using hardcore as proof for basically all arguments.
Of course it's all completable. But then you might have to lower difficulty or it takes longer or is just more annoying. It's a lot more fun to run gianthold than vecna or iod. Even with the puzzles and back and forth. And least you won't get swarmed by mobs of high-health enemies with unebatable saves around every corner. Even between ravenloft and sharn there is a huge difference in difficulty.

 

[Silverfox]

So what? Doesn't change the fact that it gets more and more annoying and less and less fun if you don't have the nerve to grind out those PLs. I wish people would stop using hardcore as proof for basically all arguments.
Of course it's all completable. But then you might have to lower difficulty or it takes longer or is just more annoying. It's a lot more fun to run gianthold than vecna or iod. Even with the puzzles and back and forth. And least you won't get swarmed by mobs of high-health enemies with unebatable saves around every corner. Even between ravenloft and sharn there is a huge difference in difficulty.

Hardcore proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that all quests are complete-able by well built first life characters and certainly not full groups in most cases. Thus the game is not balanced around full past life characters.

 

[Toede]

Yet every hardcore season on first life characters all of the quests are completed by multiple players.

The problem with trying to use this as some kind of example is that it was done by old guard veterans who have literally run this content for years, including years of reaper seasons. It's not like it was some newbie who had never heard of DDO in his or her life.

I used to run elite as PD back when elite was the end game, gear was nothing like it was today, and suggesting something like hardcore would have got you canceled by the playerbase. Is it possible to do hard content in garbo gear and underleveled? Yeah it is. It's hard, but it can be done. So what? That is not the experience that the average player ever wants. There's a reason this game is a dying husk of a corpse. It needs to stop catering to a subset of a subset of gamers. Or at least it needed to. Pretty sure that ship has long since passed at this point.

Problem is, unless you want to solo, you have no choice but to participate in reaper and that means past lives. And nobody is catching up in any reasonable time frame without getting extorted by SSG. People take one look and nope right out. They have no desire to jump on this perverse hampster wheel.

 

[Reaped and Ravaged]

99% quests being completed by EXPERIENCED players on 1st life does not mean the game is in a good place. This game population has to resemble the demographic projection chart of Japan at this point and SSG really should find friendlier ways to create paying customers