U62 Preview 2 Active Attacks Rebalance

[Monkey_Archer]

Chains are not OP, the problem is most melee is pathetic, under cooked, and to make it work you have to put one level FVS + one level warlock and a ton of APS into Vistani to get MP and be relevant. So, the elephant in the room are not the chains or Adrenaline, is the poor general balance for the other classes attacks. And, of course, they shall fix that, so every melee, more or less, could cover a DPS roleplay in raids/reaper withouth cheesing their ways out.

Depends on your perspective I guess... Chains allow melees to do what casters were doing before the r10 nerf (and still can if we're being honest), ie. delete entire groups with a few button presses. I would argue that this is just one of many ways to trivialize what was intended to be the hardest difficulty setting.

I've long argued that overpowered AOE abilities (chains or otherwise) would be less problematic if monsters actually had enough hp to survive the burst. There is a massive gameplay difference between being able to burst kill everything vs having to deal with surviving mobs while your abilities are on cooldown.

I really don't like the idea that buffs alone solves the problem. Its essentially an impossible task to fix everything and will only result in powercreep and more unintended synergies that further trivialize the game.

Minor buffs like they have been doing are great, but the easiest solution is just nerf the overpowered stuff. The diplomatic solution would be to buff monster hp or release higher difficulty settings.

 

[Mordenkainen]

Depends on your perspective I guess... Chains allow melees to do what casters were doing before the r10 nerf (and still can if we're being honest), ie. delete entire groups with a few button presses. I would argue that this is just one of many ways to trivialize what was intended to be the hardest difficulty setting.

I've long argued that overpowered AOE abilities (chains or otherwise) would be less problematic if monsters actually had enough hp to survive the burst. There is a massive gameplay difference between being able to burst kill everything vs having to deal with surviving mobs while your abilities are on cooldown.

I really don't like the idea that buffs alone solves the problem. Its essentially an impossible task to fix everything and will only result in powercreep and more unintended synergies that further trivialize the game.

Minor buffs like they have been doing are great, but the easiest solution is just nerf the overpowered stuff. The diplomatic solution would be to buff monster hp or release higher difficulty settings.

I gave the solution to this. Create a zone for AoE wherein the further the monster is outside the "eye of the AoE spell" the less damage it does. That way you can actually buff caster damage without trivalizing the entire game.

Melees are fine after these changes exactly because all of their "delete" abilities are geared toward a single target and then it goes on coolddown. The reason why casters are just GOnZo OP is because they have this same attribute but it affects the entire room.

Again...,

Direct, Primary Effects
The main direct, primary effect to humans from an explosion is the sudden increase in pressure that occurs as a blast wave passes. It can cause injury to pressure sensitive human organs, such as ears and lungs.

Indirect Effect
The explosion wind following a blast can carry persons away, causing injury as a result of their falling, tumbling over, or colliding with obstacles. This effect is referred to as a tertiary effect. Effects are described, together with criteria to calculate the probable degree of lethality.

Tertiary Effects
Air particles in a blast wave have a certain velocity which, in general, flow in the same direction as the propagation of the blast wave. This explosion wind can sweep people away, carry them for some distance, and throw them against obstacles. Upright people are most vulnerable (Figure C-2B). No lethal injuries are likely to be incurred as a person tumbles and slides along the surface, but upon collision with an obstacle, consequences may be deadly. Such consequences depend upon velocity at impact, the hardness and shape of the obstacle, and the portion of the body involved in the collision. Table C-2 gives injury criteria. (references Bowen, J. G., E. R. Fletcher, and D. R. Richmond. 1968. Estimate of man’s tolerance to the direct effects of air blast. Lovelace Foundation for Medical Education and Research. Albuquerque, NM.)

From Guidelines for Evaluating the Characteristics of Vapor Cloud Explosions, Flash Fires, and BLEVEs by Center for Chemical Process Safety Copyright © 1994 American Institute of Chemical Engineers.

 

[Ahpuch]

There is no chains nerf... its getting a small buff instead of a large one.

I think it is a small nerf on greater chains and buff on the base chains. I am not certain that 10% is as good as 5W. You would need in the neighborhood of 200 bonus damage to even out I think with 5W. There are a lot of factrors but rough math: 10% x 200 = 20 = 5 x 4 avg weapon dmg.

 

[Monkey_Archer]

I think it is a small nerf on greater chains and buff on the base chains. I am not certain that 10% is as good as 5W. You would need in the neighborhood of 200 bonus damage to even out I think with 5W. There are a lot of factrors but rough math: 10% x 200 = 20 = 5 x 4 avg weapon dmg.

Greater chains is 3[w], the 5[w] is for drifting lotus which is definitely getting nerfed at those numbers.
10% is generally comparable to 3[w] at higher levels, but like all these changes will be a small nerf in heroics.

 

[Ahpuch]

Greater chains is 3[w], the 5[w] is for drifting lotus which is definitely getting nerfed at those numbers.
10% is generally comparable to 3[w] at higher levels, but like all these changes will be a small nerf in heroics.

You are correct. I was misremembering my W multipliers. So yeah, what you said.

 

[Kitty2Meow]

• Attacks that hit multiple times have had their bonus damage set lower to compensate for their multi-hit status.
  
  • This pretty much only affects two things: Drifting Lotus and the set of Shadar-Kai's Spiked Chain attacks. Each of these are set to 10% bonus damage.

Torc,
For the Drifting Lotus, since this is received to be a nerf, would you consider changing the bonus damage to 25% at least and lower the AP cost for the Drifting Lotus from 3AP (3/3) to 2AP (1/1) ?

 

[seph1roth5]

I definitely would love if epic strikes were all just 2dp for max level, isntead of 1/1/1

 

[Lotoc]

Drifting Lotus could definitely stand to be cheaper, GMOF is a very expensive tree.
Interestingly the first point of Orchid Blossom is exactly the same as the second and third, the only difference in the description is the Ki generation except you actually gain the full amount with 1 point.

 

[Kitty2Meow]

• Attacks that had a high W scale for their level and are AOEs have been adjusted to appropriate values
  
  • Example: Cleave, Great Cleave, and their associated Exalted versions in Knight of the Chalice are now 10% damage for regular and 20% for the great cleave versions.

Torc,
In addition, since both the Cleave AoEs now are increased to 10% for regular and 20% for the greater; please really consider increasing the Drifting Lotus bonus damage to 25% at least and lower the AP cost for the Drifting Lotus from 3AP (3/3) to 2AP (1/1) ? Lowering the CD to 12s would be greatly appreciated as well.

Nevertheless, in order to use Drifting Lotus, one needs to wear clothing (less PRR and MRR), and must be centered with ki weapon (limited selections); there are already lots of trade-off, it is not too much to ask for a 2nd review for the bonus and AP cost.

 

[nenetteblackmoor]

I dislike the term 'balance adjustment.'
That's because balance adjustment in DDO is about flattening everything, not adjusting for roleplay classes.

There are barbarians who can heal, fighters mimicking ray hands, those who deal significant damage with small weapons, and wizards swinging weapons too.

The distinctions between classes are disappearing, and it's becoming increasingly flattened.
Classes are now nothing more than flavor.

 

[Shear-buckler]

I dislike the term 'balance adjustment.'
That's because balance adjustment in DDO is about flattening everything, not adjusting for roleplay classes.

There are barbarians who can heal, fighters mimicking ray hands, those who deal significant damage with small weapons, and wizards swinging weapons too.

The distinctions between classes are disappearing, and it's becoming increasingly flattened.
Classes are now nothing more than flavor.

To be fair, this is what people are asking for.

 

[Mordenkainen]

I dislike the term 'balance adjustment.'
That's because balance adjustment in DDO is about flattening everything, not adjusting for roleplay classes.

There are barbarians who can heal, fighters mimicking ray hands, those who deal significant damage with small weapons, and wizards swinging weapons too.

The distinctions between classes are disappearing, and it's becoming increasingly flattened.
Classes are now nothing more than flavor.

There aren't really classes in this game as there are more playstyles.

Namely, melee, ranged, and caster which are categories that determine your gameplay abilities in this action combat game.

 

[CBDunk]

There aren't really classes in this game as there are more playstyles.

Namely, melee, ranged, and caster which are categories that determine your gameplay abilities in this action combat game.

Tank, DPS, Crowd Control, and/or Instakill) :]

There are different ways to categorize things, and those categories can be combined in different ways (e.g. caster crowd control tank). Class can play a significant role in determining which of these categories a particular build falls into, or almost no role at all (e.g. Inquisitive builds that all but ignore the 'base class').

 

[Mordenkainen]

Tank, DPS, Crowd Control, and/or Instakill) :]

There are different ways to categorize things, and those categories can be combined in different ways (e.g. caster crowd control tank). Class can play a significant role in determining which of these categories a particular build falls into, or almost no role at all (e.g. Inquisitive builds that all but ignore the 'base class').

This is true. I just like to categorize by how you do damage as that is paramount in the type of game DDO is (aka a room-by-room action MMO).

 

[Tilomere]

Adrenaline  should be the highest dps epic strike. It's single target, single attack, with only a 4s single target CC and costs 9 AP. Plus it actually requires a tiny bit of coordination that many players dont want to do

Maybe they should look at making the gameplay of hunts end/adrenaline more to people liking if they are going to push it on everyone as the only dps strikes to use.