U66 Preview 2: Tumble Changes

[Kyrr]

So if you have 95 dex you can perma-meld?

Yeah, this is possibly a bit overkill and would adjust the meta.

 

[VinoeWhines]

Any word on Preview 3

 

[Elminster]

Any word on Preview 3

There is no preview 3.

 

[Zvdegor]

There is no preview 3.

But hotfixes

 

[karthunk]

There is no preview 3.

Wait... so this is basically the finished product?

 

[Ahpuch]

Wait... so this is basically the finished product?

Gawd No. There will be some extra nerfs adjustments thrown in without feedback. At least one of those last minute changes will require a hot fix if this holds to tradition.

 

[Kritikal]

Gawd No. There will be some extra nerfs adjustments thrown in without feedback. At least one of those last minute changes will require a hot fix if this holds to tradition.

Wait... so this is basically the finished product?

For the most part, YES, this update is finished. No more Lamannias. Please see Ahpuch's quote. Possibly some stealth nerfs will be added.

 

[Elminster]

If you're going to nerf more, just come out and say it... we're all going to find out anyway.

But who knows, no more nerfs? stealth or not

 

[dur]

Howdy all! With Update 66 we're going to be adjusting the gameplay flow and mechanical benefits of Tumbling.

Design Philosophy​

So, to begin - Tumble was never meant to replace your standard methods of locomotion. Tumble is instead meant to allow characters to react to telegraphed damage or traps to escape from certain doom. However, thanks to our efforts to making tumbling more reactive and more fun, we inadvertently introduced specific scenarios in which a character tumbling can generate a pretty impressive (if unintended) amount of land speed.

Our first attempt at fixing this problem was to simply remove the experimental controls, locking players to the old Tumble flow. That being said, after noodling on it as a team, we realized that while this might solve the locomotion problem, it made tumbling less reactive AND didn't do anything to actually help Tumble be relevant in combat. To that end, we think we've come up with a solution that preserves the active nature of Tumble, prevents players from using it to generate too much speed, AND lets them use it to prevent damage on their own terms.

Tumble Charges​

First thing's first - Experimental Tumble Controls has been re-enabled for this preview. Assuming nothing seriously explodes, we expect it to stay enabled going forward.

Tumbling is now limited by charges. If you don't have at least one Tumble charge, you cannot tumble. By default, you have 2 maximum Tumble charges, and one Tumble charge returns every 8 seconds.

Certain feats and abilities can boost your maximum Tumble charges and quicken their rate of return. For this preview, the following abilities have been adjusted:

• Thief-Acrobat's 3rd core, Tumbler, now grants +1 maximum Tumble charge.
• The Mobility feat now grants +1 maximum Tumble charge.

You may view your Tumble charges by holding your Block key, default left shift. Each green pip displayed represents one Tumble charge.

Tumble Benefits​

Tumble now grants you defensive benefits during part of the tumble animation. These bonuses only apply if you are actually tumbling - the shuffle half-step won't trigger these bonuses.

For this preview, Tumbling now grants the following:

• 95% uncapped dodge for 1 second.
• A bonus to Reflex saving throws equal to your Tumble skill for 1 second.

Note that these bonuses apply to you from the moment you begin your Tumble, regardless of how long the animation takes to complete.

We hope very much that these changes further encourage players to actively tumble to dodge large attacks or dangerous traps, and look forward to your passionate feedback!

LOL cheers, bud. I'm getting there but, OMG this is a big change. You DID change a method of [secondary] locomotion.. for me, anyway.

Why did charges needed to be added to tumble? I understand something, something EPIC. EPIC!

Why nerf Tumble at Heroic? To put points in Tumble is a SIGNIFICANT investment. +1, blah, blah, EPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dur]

I'm glad you found a middle ground, though I still think the "land speed" it could achieve, if unintended, was actually positive

I hope, once you establish Tumble back to what you think it should be as a mechanic, that you'll reconsider adding in some other "turbo button" mechanic to allow you to achieve out-of-combat move speeds equivalent to what Tumble provided, as a QOL mechanic available to every player

I think 2 charges @ 8 secs might be a bit restrictive, at first. Dont see why you couldnt be a bit more liberal with them, like 4 @ 6 secs or something

Did they, though?

 

[dur]

The Tumble changes are reasonable. Good job finding a common ground.

I hope the pips are a placeholder. Those are annoying to look at.

That's all you care about are the pips?

 

[dur]

Moar Skill = More Fun;

AWESOME CHANGES!

is that sarcasm?

 

[Elminster]

is that sarcasm?

no but in practice it needs to be upped to 2 secs

 

[VinoeWhines]

While Tumble is being worked on, another flip of movement would be to somersault feather fall from being de-activated on shield block, to instead be activated on shield block.
Jumping around trying to escape a mobs Cleave has you floating like a balloon and with the constant lag at times, causes you to get hit in mid air and see your soul stone ten feet behind you.
Having Featherfall activate on shield block would be in line with intuitive defensive theme action button press. If not shield block then maybe its own hot button.

 

[VinoeWhines]

Raise Tumble to three charges, Thief Acrobats have an easier go as is, with DEX base as a skill. That way everyone could at least have three tries at it. Sometimes one Tumble goes off inadvertantly in pre combat and only leaves you with one left, when you could of used one more to stay relevant in group and not be backpack fodder.
I'm sure even more so in Heroics.

 

[VinoeWhines]

 

[dur]

heya, thanks for that. I see no one wants to talk about this anymore. This is a nerf/ban/demolisher all-in-one. thanks for effing us folks that played with tumble as IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN

not sure how to take that video but the tumble changes REEK.

 

[dur]

Howdy all! With Update 66 we're going to be adjusting the gameplay flow and mechanical benefits of Tumbling.

Design Philosophy​

So, to begin - Tumble was never meant to replace your standard methods of locomotion. Tumble is instead meant to allow characters to react to telegraphed damage or traps to escape from certain doom.

Really? Tumble was a form of locomotion though.. on/from DAY ONE, Uninterrupted. Mmm.. I still remember that GRRL tumbling around me.

Who told you that "tumble is instead meant to allow characters to react to telegraphed damage or traps to escape from certain doom?" I thought that's what Rogues were for?

*I would really like to talk about this. IDK about expl.. :x but you changed how a core skill functions, perhaps with unintended consequesces.. fall damage, for example.

 

[dur]

Raise Tumble to three charges, Thief Acrobats have an easier go as is, with DEX base as a skill. That way everyone could at least have three tries at it. Sometimes one Tumble goes off inadvertantly in pre combat and only leaves you with one left, when you could of used one more to stay relevant in group and not be backpack fodder.
I'm sure even more so in Heroics.

The current sys should not allow for more than1 charge unless yer tumble skill is high enough. No tumble for you.

 

[VinoeWhines]

Martial classes should probably get the most bonus' to Tumble since they are at Melee Range on Combat. Archer/Throwers as well and Casters can invest in it too if they want to build on it as well.

Assassin/Thief Acrobat and Ninja Monk should be highest in ROI's(Return On Investment) in special effects/attacks.
Barbarians should maybe get to do Bludgeoning Damage on roll maybe to lesser degree Fighter as well. Like how certain Boss fights do at end fight.