Update 63 Preview 1: Deck of Many Curses

[rabidfox]

(I looted a Reaper enchanted Want of Blasting, but it can't be crunched for frags... bummer)

Have so many reaper boosted throwing weapons sitting on a bank alt in hopes that someday I can crunch them.

edit: sidenote on the wand bit... can't apply curses to eternal wands (or least I couldn't on the ones I had on lam)

 

[PersonMan]

The game already has too many sources for loot disappointment.

 

[Kritikal]

Is this a "Deck of 'Fortunes'" or a "Card of 'Fortunes'?" Note I said 'Fortunes,' instead of 'Curses' since this is what these should be named.

If it's a 'Deck,' then make it like re-rolls like for chests. Allow 5 draws from the deck. I say 5 due to Poker (Five Card Draw). This would increase chances for a decent card. You keep drawing (up to 5) if you don't like the card drawn (no going back). On the fifth draw, it's too late; that's the buff you're stuck with. Then the 'Deck' disappears.

If it's a 'Card,' allow it to be drawn before applying the buff. scrape this system.

I think all fortune bonuses should stack regardless.

The problem we, as players, have is that this 'idea' is already on Lamannia, therefore it's a go. Lots of good ideas in this thread. Deaf Ears.

 

[Guntango]

The game already has too many sources for loot disappointment.

There is no such loot system in existence where your prize is both expected and exciting.

 

[CBDunk]

In addition to the effects already stated to be removed I'd think there might be issues with Minor/Major Intuition (depending on how the lower ML impacts effect bonuses) and Unbreakable (e.g. changing armor/shield to silver could be 'unfortunate' for Druids). There may be other effects that I don't know about.

That said, I continue to believe that;
Removing these 'potentially detrimental' effects makes the system less interesting
Trying to code to handle potential conflicts (e.g. different weapon vs non-weapon results for Divine Fortune) makes the system complicated
There will always be too many potentially 'useless' combinations to remove or make conditional
Allowing effects to be replaced solves all problems

 

[Thau of Blackmoore]

the Augment curse did not grant another augment slot on the Heroic Bracers from the flame cleansed fury set this morning

 

[Ratatoskr_Mikew]

Suggestions:
1-Make the curse that is to be applied optional between being either unknown, or known with a 25% chance of being applied

2-Add Curse Of Eccentricity: Runearm charge rate +5%, +2 to runearm DCs, and a big chunky squirrel follows you around

3-Give one of the rings in this pack these properties:

Greater Auto Repair
Insightful Reconstruction Spellpower
Quality Reconstruction Spellpower
Touch Of Immortality (As from Gauntlets Of Immortality from the Fall Of Truth Raid)

 

[PersonMan]

There is no such loot system in existence where your prize is both expected and exciting.

see XP
while not "loot" specifically, it is a reward, also not guaranteed but it follows
effort -> reward
I am sure no one would be demanding we roll on how much XP we gain/lose when completing a quest.

There is an amount of RNG that is nice and exciting and we are already many layers deep.

 

[Guntango]

see XP
while not "loot" specifically, it is a reward, also not guaranteed but it follows
effort -> reward
I am sure no one would be demanding we roll on how much XP we gain/lose when completing a quest.

There is an amount of RNG that is nice and exciting and we are already many layers deep.

You're confusing grind and loot. No one is suggesting we roll on xp. We're talking about stuff that drops in a loot chest by chance.

 

[Ahpuch]

There's a reason people stopped using Dragontouched armor a long, long time ago. It's this. This system is why. The name is also confusing, since these are basically all buffs. What's the curse? Getting bonus ranged power on your 2 handed melee weapon?

Also: Power creep bad.

The curse is using this system?

Hey! There's that Fhrek guy with an opinion!! Get 'im! *cue benny hill music*

Only time that '10k sent xp' curse would be worthwhile is if it was put on an item that was going to be fed in the first place. But whose going to try one of these curses on items they aren't going to use?

Well you could be putting it on a duplicate to see if you can make it better to replace the one you are using.... But that doesn't make it much better.

I don't like the idea of it generating a card similar to a filigree considering some people still know how to d**e and would just abuse this. I think this approach is fraught with the potential of exploitation & benefits end game players of a certain ilk. Good in theory, not so great in application.

If d**pe'ing is a problem then the devs should really be focussing their time on fixing that. THey should not be building decks of anything until that is fixed. It is not an unsolvable problem. It should never be an excuse to ignore a better implementation.

There's a number of effects being removed/replaced/adjusted based on player feedback (as well as technical issues for some). So far, this includes:

• Removing Curse of Stone (weight/sinking)
• Removing the Threat Boost/Reduction elements of all Curses that currently include them
• Removing Curse of Superior Augmentation (Augment Slots, for technical reasons that would eat your augments)
• Removing Curse of the Mythical Blessing (grants a Mythic bonus, as it explodes the entire stacking system)
• Removing Curse of the Deckmaster (the set bonus, as players pointed out the potential impact on items with relatively malleable set bonuses)

These aren't the only changes we're planning on making before next Preview, and we're still talking through other elements of player feedback. Thanks for the feedback so far!

I came to say that this is an improvement but may be insufficient. After having read all the other comments, I don't think that comment is useful because I think this is just a bad idea. This system will irritate people. It can't be saved as is (IMHO of course).

If you add the ability to remove "curses" then this becomes another power creep as getting the best "curses" will be a requirement by power gamers. "Curses" being tied to an RNG, those players will be irritated that they still don't have that +2 to the stat they want and demand a way around the RNG of the system. They will be irritated with the results 95% of the time. Less intense players will find the grind excessive and the fact that builds that they want to emulate include these bonuses irritating. They may use it for rando bennies but that may not make them happy when they think about that thing that they didn't get. People are pitching for a remove/reroll because it seems like an improvement but it is still an improvement on a questionable idea.

If you leave it without ability to re"curse" or remove "curses" it will make this less of a power creep (which is good IMO) but now players will be irritated by the miss rate (of getting what they want). Going for rando bennies should be an improvement over the grind of getting exactly what they want but human nature doesn't work like that. The satisfaction of a minor boost (or worse no boost) will pale in comparison to disappointment that the grind to make the attempt didn't provide what they wanted. This is obvious from the feedback.

Then there is the issue of making gear tetris even worse as new items are introduced because these effects have to be factored in to decisions of gear improvements adding another dimension to a multi dimensional head ache. Players will be irritated when they go for an swap of a set but a couple of "curses" are holding them back.

Knightgf several posts back suggested the deck provide temporary benefits. I think that was on the player but it could work as well as temporary buff on gear. This seems like the most reasonable way to save this idea as it removes some of the power creep from the deck of curses and there will be less irritation at a temporary buff. I have no idea if that kind of change would actually work with the purpose SSG wants to provide this feature though. Is this for fun? Is this to introduce a new grind for power gamers? Is this to sell decurse tools in the store? Without knowing the why, commenting on the what can be at cross purposes.

And the name Deck of Curses is still confusing. ( Unless you really are planning on selling decurse toolkits in the store, then the name is too spot on.)

 

[PersonMan]

My point was "add more RNG" is not a wonder cure for staleness. There are countless ways to add RNG that would be disastrous. There is a degree of RNG (when properly implemented) that is fun and exciting. Looting is a grind: see any LFM "farming for ___"

We already have

1. Did I get named loot,
   b. Is it an item I want,
2. Does it have Mythic Bonus,
   b. Is it T2 Mythic
3. Does it have a Reaper Bonus
   b. is it the type of Bonus I want

There are enough people stuck engaging at 1 because they cannot even get the base item to drop.
The Rune system for raid loot removed 100% reliance on RNG. It is still exciting to have the item drop for you and when you did not get the item you at least made some progress toward it anyway so it is not total disappointment.
Similarly they added the system for adding Reaper Bonus so it not 100% aligning the stars to get a "perfect" item. While people tend to voice feeling the progress to 75 is abysmally slow, it is at least something.

RNG is fine to an extent, but we do not presently need a new layer of it, nor the powercreep it would bring.

 

[Eltronin]

Is this a "Deck of 'Fortunes'" or a "Card of 'Fortunes'?" Note I said 'Fortunes,' instead of 'Curses' since this is what these should be named.

If it's a 'Deck,' then make it like re-rolls like for chests. Allow 5 draws from the deck. I say 5 due to Poker (Five Card Draw). This would increase chances for a decent card. You keep drawing (up to 5) if you don't like the card drawn (no going back). On the fifth draw, it's too late; that's the buff you're stuck with. Then the 'Deck' disappears.

If it's a 'Card,' allow it to be drawn before applying the buff. scrape this system.

I think all fortune bonuses should stack regardless.

The problem we, as players, have is that this 'idea' is already on Lamannia, therefore it's a go. Lots of good ideas in this thread. Deaf Ears.

No reroll. The name has CURSES right in it. Don't go changing an items name just so you can get what you want. The item itself is a random you get what you get item....CURSES.

 

[Aaabbbcccddd]

Is this a "Deck of 'Fortunes'" or a "Card of 'Fortunes'?" Note I said 'Fortunes,' instead of 'Curses' since this is what these should be named.

If it's a 'Deck,' then make it like re-rolls like for chests. Allow 5 draws from the deck. I say 5 due to Poker (Five Card Draw). This would increase chances for a decent card. You keep drawing (up to 5) if you don't like the card drawn (no going back). On the fifth draw, it's too late; that's the buff you're stuck with. Then the 'Deck' disappears.

I like the idea, it's a good middle ground. You don't get screwed if your first roll is bad and you have still only a limited amount of tries. I also kinda fits the gambling style of card games.

 

[Smokewolf]

After reading through much of this and watching Strimtoms video, I'm go to go with a HARD PASS. Not going to gimp my gear trying random rolls and then not be able to remove the offending curse.

The whole idea of this curse / craft process is pretty insulting to those with Veteran gear sets.

-Smoke

 

[Wini]

The Rune system for raid loot removed 100% reliance on RNG.

Runes do not cover everything. I ran 40 skeletons, got 0 tar augments and just had a break after that.

 

[mikarddo]

After reading through much of this and watching Strimtoms video, I'm go to go with a HARD PASS. Not going to gimp my gear trying random rolls and then not be able to remove the offending curse.

The whole idea of this curse / craft process is pretty insulting to those with Veteran gear sets.

-Smoke

Which curse would gimp your gear? After the detrimental ones were removed I dont see any way to make the item worse. Sure, it might not get meaningfully better but it wont get worse - so there is no risk of gimping the item.

 

[popejubal]

No reroll. The name has CURSES right in it. Don't go changing an items name just so you can get what you want. The item itself is a random you get what you get item....CURSES.

And North Korea’s name has “Democratic Republic” in it. It’s pretty clear that these are beneficial modifications in spite of the Curse name.

 

[CBDunk]

Which curse would gimp your gear? After the detrimental ones were removed I dont see any way to make the item worse.

Except the potentially detrimental ones haven't all been removed (e.g. item becomes silver is detrimental on Druid armor).

We also don't know if the results vary in likelihood... there could be some rare curses that we haven't seen yet. So we may not even be able to identify all the issues before the system goes live.

 

[Ratatoskr_Mikew]

Making the effects random but visible so you can choose whether or not to apply it, or creating a way to remove and replace the random effect seem to be the best options to fixing the complaints here. Additionally, you could make it a choice between a removable/replaceable unknown effect and having a 25% chance of applying itself but being a known effect.

 

[Aldbar DDO]

as it stands right now, it indeed is a curse. heaving only one shot at potently getting what you need with odds way less that standard gambling odds and no chance to fix it, is just bad.

however I do have 2 options that I think can work:

Option 1:

- collect all 4 cards (1 of etch) and form a deck
- deck is one time use and will give a random effect
- new effect can override any old effect

this option feels to me the closest to what the original vision was, but without the fetal down sides.
if it would end up like this I might try it out, but not enjoy it much since I relay don't like open end RNG.


Option 2:

- collect 12 of etch card to form a Card Case that starts with only the option to add cards to it
- add any card to the Card Case and unlock a new random effect that can now be selected when using the Card Case with an item
- any effect that you have unlocked in your Card Case is permanently unlocked, properly named and can be freely selected to use with an item
- the more cards you add to the case, the more options you will be abele to select from when using the Card Case

as far as removing effects in Option 2, here are some suggestions:

1) it is permanent. --> not good but at lest you know before you add something what it is you are adding
2) let new effects over ride any old effect. --> no down side, but boring.
3) add a rare remover that will be primarily acquired in the DDO store. --> seems fair.
4) add a random card called 'The Blank Card' that once unlocked will allow you to remove effects from items. --> most entreating, and my favorite

this option should make it so you don't get punished if you don't get what you want, and will also make an incentive to keep on collecting cards and unlocking options in your card case.
in this option it is passible to add way more variations of effects making the systems relevant for way longer.
this can even allow different level effects to have different minimum level so that none of the lesser effects are useless.

I just hope that I'm not to late, and that this post makes it to anyone relevant.