Change to Dungeon Alert

[Denis Iron]

Long time ago I played DDO beta and I liked it - I read dialogues, completed optional and find traps. Now I know all traps location, all hidden doors and so on. I play only to get RXP and some favor. It was not a problem, if the game was RPG, but it became Counter-Strike like. I login, jump into party, get RXP and move to next quest. Why? Because DDO was RPG, but now its not. Most of the quests does not have life-logic. Why do we need to kill all? Why we cannot bluff, diplo or sneak? There are some quests where we have to do it, but most quests we HAVE TO rush and kill. Last lives I don't even take disarm - I have evasion. I don't need open lock - I DONT NEED loot from locked chests or locked doors.

You can add unlockable door and ONE random mob, who have the key and the problem with RA will be solved, but this still force us to kill most mobs...

 

[Kimbere]

This is a simple 2 Step Solution:

#1 and most important: Please, please, please convert all current XP pots into "per quest completion" and not timed. You have no idea how much positive change this one simple change can make. (i.e. more support for new players due to less zerging, less lag, more groups on the LFM)

This change wouldn't change anything regarding zerging. It would be a nice QoL perk for non-zergers though.

A zerger's xp/min goal isn't caused by running XP pots. XP pots are just a resource that assists in the pursuit of the actual goal, which is to level/cap/tr as fast as possible.

Completions/min boils down to to xp/min, thus xp/min would still be the goal. The only difference might be that zergers would factor in completions/min as a variable in their overall xp/min calculations.

Xp/min will still be the real goal because, at it's most basic level, the goal is to complete the leveling process as fast as possible. That goal is usually motivated by one of two things:

1. The player dislikes the leveling grind and non-cap gameplay, so they zerg to cap as fast as possible to get back to end-game content.
2. The player wants to complete the 3242234543 available past lives sometime this decade, so they zerg to cap as fast as possible for the next TR.

 

[MSC]

The simple conclusion is, if the DA system is a problem and has been a problem for the servers. Remove it. Problem solved. Figure out other ways to milk people for a little more money than trying to make them waste time and buy more potions v

The DA system isn't what is causing the issue, the issue is the 20+ aggro'd mobs realtime three dimensional pathing calculations all trying to catch up to and attack the player.

The DA system seems to be made to penalize aggro'ing so many mobs that puts undo stress on the server with pathing calculations.

 

[Phoenicis]

Simple solution to the 'my pot is ticking down' issue.

Stop selling pots. Period.

Never going to happen because the pots are a major source of income for SSG.

Not sure changing them to # of xp awards doesn't have some unintended side effect that I can't think of at the moment.

 

[you may call me.....Tim]

I do not think there is going to be one fix for this issue but I think 2 things that would show immediate results with the smallest amount of effort would be:
1. Limit DA to levels of the Dungeon (normal +4 like reaper) - this would eliminate the issue for "above-level" people doing favor runs. the DA here is pretty useless and has little to no impact on higher-level characters, but this would remove their added DA resource consumption from the equation.
2. Remove DA from wilderness areas entirely - this was fine back in the day when everyone was walking everywhere, but it is too easy to pop on your mount and outrun stuff, the mobs eventually reset so this mechanic is no longer a factor in wilderness zones and it is merely an annoyance to get hit and dismounted, nothing more.

I think the resource consumption caused by these two examples would be the easiest to eliminate from the equation and may even bring the consumption down to a manageable or negligent amount of the overall LAG issue. If not it at least reduces the impact range of any DA changes that will be made in the future.

<personal request>
Personally I zerg a lot of the event quests, so if you could do me a solid and remove it from events, that would be appreciated as well.
</personal request>

 

[axel15810]

I do wonder if like others mentioned if this is just a temporary spike due to people running the new revamped Droaam stuff. Super easy to alert in a few of them. Minotaur quest especially, so many mobs.

I don't know how much it would help but pots not being timed based would be nice. They do encourage zerging to get the best XP/dollar. Plus I've always disliked them being time based, it feels constraining.

 

[Thumbed_Servant]

The idea is simple: Kill the monsters as you encounter them whether in a dungeon/quest or in the wilderness zones. If you cannot kill them, if it is too difficult for you...try a lower difficulty level or try a lower level area. Overloading the servers by running past the monster and thus generating more monster AI threads on the server is bad for the health of the game. For those who want to rush the game as fast as is possible it just became a little less fast and I can't feel that that is a bad thing.

 

[Qeistalan]

Final solution to Dungeon Alert: GIT GUUD.

Here endeth the lesson.

 

[Cordovan]

I do not think there is going to be one fix for this issue but I think 2 things that would show immediate results with the smallest amount of effort would be:
1. Limit DA to levels of the Dungeon (normal +4 like reaper) - this would eliminate the issue for "above-level" people doing favor runs. the DA here is pretty useless and has little to no impact on higher-level characters, but this would remove their added DA resource consumption from the equation.
2. Remove DA from wilderness areas entirely - this was fine back in the day when everyone was walking everywhere, but it is too easy to pop on your mount and outrun stuff, the mobs eventually reset so this mechanic is no longer a factor in wilderness zones and it is merely an annoyance to get hit and dismounted, nothing more.

I think the resource consumption caused by these two examples would be the easiest to eliminate from the equation and may even bring the consumption down to a manageable or negligent amount of the overall LAG issue. If not it at least reduces the impact range of any DA changes that will be made in the future.

<personal request>
Personally I zerg a lot of the event quests, so if you could do me a solid and remove it from events, that would be appreciated as well.
</personal request>

The issue with your suggestion is that "DA resource consumption" has basically nothing to do with the game performance degradation taking place. Think of it like a light bulb, the "lag" is the electricity and DA is the light. The light is happening because of the electricity, not the other way around. The Dungeon Alert system is simply a warning system about an issue taking place. The alerting system has no or basically no impact on game performance, but the behavior that causes it to activate does.

 

[Eoin]

Could be evil and...

• Completion with yellow alert, no bravery bonus.
• Completion with orange alert, no bravery bonus and no first time bonus.
• Completion with red alert, no bravery bonus, no first time bonus, no named items, and no tokens of 12.

That should cut down on a lot of zerging. Probably need some end fights adjusted.

 

[rabidfox]

It's amazing how many people suggest punative methods to reducing zerging to the point where it would likely drive off many players from the game.

 

[rish57]

New forums, same fixes.

 

[you may call me.....Tim]

The issue with your suggestion is that "DA resource consumption" has basically nothing to do with the game performance degradation taking place. Think of it like a light bulb, the "lag" is the electricity and DA is the light. The light is happening because of the electricity, not the other way around. The Dungeon Alert system is simply a warning system about an issue taking place. The alerting system has no or basically no impact on game performance, but the behavior that causes it to activate does.

Well if I understand that correctly, you guys have a much bigger problem on your hands. That behavior has always been in the game and over time it has been somewhat, if even inadvertently, been encouraged by game changes and dynamics. This is a huge problem, i look forward to see what you guys come up with to solve it. Also if the Dungeon Alert is a non factor as you say then maybe titling the thread "Change to Dungeon Alert" was not appropriate as envisioned.

This game has always had it's resource issues and as you guys fix one the next one becomes prominent like peeling the layers of an onion. This is obviously a very resource intensive game and the operating resource margin for stability is apparently a small window as the player base is just not that large. I think containerization of resources to instances is something that needs to be looked at, at least then when people want to zerg and aggro a bunch of mobs it will only affect their instanced resources, not the entire server.

I still stand by my 2 suggestions, if not from a resource consumption concern, call it a playability enhancement, if i am riding my mount out to Chains of Flames, i do not need a "light" to tell me i aggroed a bunch of mobs.

 

[Zuldar]

Adding a penalty is not going to go over well with the player base. It would be better to offer some incentive to avoid DA, offer an increased named loot chance based on kills. Say 5% for aggression, 10% for onslaught, 15% for conquest; doesn't have to be those exact numbers but in general a bigger chance based on kills. A group going for conquest to get the maximum bonus is less likely to have a lot of random mobs active and thus less DA.

To be fair though for those who play sneakily add similar bonuses for discreet and devious since that also avoids too much DA.

Won't be a perfect system since many quests lack good named loot, but it's certainly a good starting point.

 

[jotmon]

Port players to a pocket dimension battle room equipped with a rez shrine along with all the aggro'd mobs when they hit Red DA.
Exit portal opens when they are all dead.

 

[Careall]

Me: "Hireling. Take two steps and pull that lever." *turns around to look at the gate*

!RED DUNGEON ALERT!

Me: "What?!" *Looks at map and hireling halfway through the dungeon dragging every mob right back to me."

 

[Careall]

Adding a penalty is not going to go over well with the player base. It would be better to offer some incentive to avoid DA, offer an increased named loot chance based on kills. Say 5% for aggression, 10% for onslaught, 15% for conquest; doesn't have to be those exact numbers but in general a bigger chance based on kills. A group going for conquest to get the maximum bonus is less likely to have a lot of random mobs active and thus less DA.

To be fair though for those who play sneakily add similar bonuses for discreet and devious since that also avoids too much DA.

Won't be a perfect system since many quests lack good named loot, but it's certainly a good starting point.

Bonus xp for not causing an alert, less for green, less for yellow, and no bonus for red.

 

[Belnavar]

Just don't turn DDO into a game of thinning down minions too much, I'd play Path of Exile if that was what I enjoyed. DDO is great because the goal of a quest is to meet the quest objective; the monsters only try to prevent the players from doing that and killing all monsters is not a goal in itself. That truly is what makes the game good compared to others.

100% this.

 

[D's / Iron & Mortanis/Kin]

How about the Dungeon Alert doesn't go away until the quest ends.... This way it only triggers once... and Mobs in the Dungeon are now more aware and don't lose their DA bonses... This way it's only 1 time per quest

 

[Batman]

That's exactly the thing I want us to be mindful of. Generally speaking DDO encounters aren't always about how many minions you can clear which is what makes it special and fun and D&D-like. I don't want that aspect to change, so our approach has to still feel right by that.

I would like to say that, at least for Reaper players, it kinda is.

The entire reason for doing Reapers is because the combat becomes much more difficult and thus the quests become more of a challenge. The combat portion is the end all be all in this instance, not the ability to exploit every non-targettable cliff/jumping off point/short-cut/bypass to make past-lifing that much easier.

I think the problem is the only "real" way to make content harder/slow players down is to make the combat harder. I mean... isn't that the entire purpose/reason that DA exists in the first place?