New VIP Loyalty Reward Plan ... Thoughts ?

[Aelonwy]

I look at the bang for your buck. , You could spend 100 bucks for the entire year of DDO.

TLDR ~$241 dollars of value.


For each month I am not listing all the item in the VIP bag, just the most expensive, or try to give something a value.

Non-Double Bonus points

Rough price $1.00 per 75 points

Get the easy one out of the way first. DDO Points.

VIP already get 500 points a month times a year... + 6000 DDO point. (6500 / 75) ~ $87 dollars


First Time Sign up

5 shared bank spaces ( 10 shared is 1000 points, so half is ) ~ 500 DDO Points

1- Month
Bonus +500 DDO Points


2- Month
Bag of Many Things
Ethereal Rest Shrine Statuette ~ 700 DDO Points

I would say the Omni Dust because you used to get 50 dust for 50 points.. so 2500 dust is 2500 points... But they are not selling it any more for some reason, but it is in the Trunk you can buy for 3700 DDO points but you get so many other things in that Trunk.. So I am just going with what I can find on the DDO store right now and that is.. Ethereal Rest Shrine Statuette


(Technically the Flawless Siberys Dragonshard (Feat swap token) is most expensive because you can only buy Flawed Siberys Dragonshard from the DDO Store and that is 60 DDO points per.. costs 1,000,000 Flawed Siberys Dragonshard to make one Flawless Siberys Dragonshard so 1 million x 60 DDO points is 60,000,000 ddo points or $800,000 dollars!!!!! )



3- Month
Bonus Character Slot ~ 625 DDO Points

4- Month

+10% Item Durability Ward ~ Worthless No DDO Point Value

This is a pointless gift.

5- Month
Bag of Many Things
Ethereal Rest Shrine Statuette ~ 700 DDO Points

6- Month
Lightning Storm Trail ~ 2500 DDO Points

Based on most expensive mount you can buy in DDO store right now.

7- Month
VIP Artisan’s Advantage~ Worthless to 160 DDO points
+10% to Crafting XP. In addition, each time you click a Collectible node you get a chance to gain a Crafting Material Token

I feel this is worthless because how many people sit around and craft nonstop for a year or however long you plan to be a VIP. You can buy 100% potion stack of 10 for DDO 160 points.

8- Month
Greater VIP Bag of Many Things

Lesser Heart of Wood ~2500 DDO Points

9- Month
VIP Discovery Boost ~ Worthless to 300 DDO Points


Get a +1% increased chance of named loot dropping for your characters in chests that stacks with Elixirs of Discovery.

Just using 10 poitions of the greater treasure +15 to rolls for loot. I dont know what 1% increase chance will be.
According to DDO wiki Running Elite quest gives you 33% chance already, every reaper + is another 1% supposedly if its still accurate.
The potions are supposedly 5% boost. So ... ya.. hard to give value to this.. Want 1 % just run 1 reaper higher than you normally do Run R2 instead of R1

10- Month
Bag of Many Things
Ethereal Rest Shrine Statuette ~ 700 DDO Points

11- Month
5 shared bank spaces ( 10 shared is 1000 points, so half is ) ~ 500 DDO Points


12- Month
Storm Cloud Rider Mount ~2500 DDO Points.

Total Sum of Points ~ 11,685 DDO Points or about $155 dollars of value. PLUS dont forget the DDO points you already get 6000 and 500 points $86 Dollars of Value

So my very very rough estimate of the package is about ~$241 dollars of value. For the price of 99 dollar Full year VIP SUB.


Disclaimer... I know its very subjective. Its hard to give value to the new mount, and the lightning cosmetic. Its hard to put accurate prices on those because its first time seeing it in the game when it comes. So the COOL FACTOR gives them more value, buts its subjective value.

My biggest issue with this is, claiming the stuff. If you pay them 100 dollars up front, and you dont log in for whatever reason. Maybe you had to run your kids to the Moon and you dont plan to be back for about 6 months. You 100% should be getting those items regardless.
You paid for it, you should better get it. This is something that I feel really needs to change, else its another Vaseline image picture I will put up.
They have the ability to do it, so do it.

Other issue is, the Shared bank space. My biggest beef with SSG is the lack of empathy for bank space. They create all this content and new items, but we have no where to put it. 30 mules is unnaceptable. Logging in and out for hours each day moving gear is unnaccptable.
Also what happens if you let your VIP run out and you lose those 10 shares bank spaces? Where do those items go? Im guessing they just stay there, you can withdraw only until you get back down to your non vip shared bank amount? Im guessing that is what it would be.

There is a serious issue with your valuations - many of the things you put a value on you will not OWN when the sub ends unlike items you actually purchase.

The Shared Bank spaces for instance you will only have access to while you are an active VIP. The same for the extra character slot.
The same for both cosmetics. You are renting these items not gaining permanent access as if you made a purchase.

Only months 1, 2, 5, 8, and 10 are giving you bonuses that are permanent even after the sub lapses and are therefor comparable to purchases.

 

[dur]

Missed the Onyx Panther

And Dragon Lord on F2P

I've spent way too much money on this game to walk away over this. Crafting.. Tumble.. Feh!

 

[Cmecu]

There is a serious issue with your valuations - many of the things you put a value on you will not OWN when the sub ends unlike items you actually purchase.

The Shared Bank spaces for instance you will only have access to while you are an active VIP. The same for the extra character slot.
The same for both cosmetics. You are renting these items not gaining permanent access as if you made a purchase.

Only months 1, 2, 5, 8, and 10 are giving you bonuses that are permanent even after the sub lapses and are therefor comparable to purchases.

WHich is why at the bottom I said its a very subjective value to give. Its hard to put value on it. I put value on how much the things actually cost to get. Even though buying those things like bank space are permanent when you buy them, while the VIP package is a more RENT your space deal.. regardless its based off of if your a VIP person.

 

[Aelonwy]

WHich is why at the bottom I said its a very subjective value to give. Its hard to put value on it. I put value on how much the things actually cost to get. Even though buying those things like bank space are permanent when you buy them, while the VIP package is a more RENT your space deal.. regardless its based off of if your a VIP person.

No I get that value is subjective. But its not subjective whether you own it after paying for it or not. How can the Cloud have the same value as a purchased mount that I can use forever after? A character slot that I own has actual value, one that I only have access to while subbing is a rented perk that simply doesn't have the same value. So YMMV but putting the same point value on it and then converting that to a dollar value is very misleading.

 

[dur]

No I get that value is subjective. But its not subjective whether you own it after paying for it or not. How can the Cloud have the same value as a purchased mount that I can use forever after? A character slot that I own has actual value, one that I only have access to while subbing is a rented perk that simply doesn't have the same value. So YMMV but putting the same point value on it and then converting that to a dollar value is very misleading.

Purchasing an item is now different. Why did I have to upgrade (with USD) my Saltmarsh Pak (bought via points) to use that fuggin' VIP Coupon? And concurrently unlocked teleporting? It's a gimmick. It started a while ago. I understand the frustration but... how much is a monthly sub now? Can u buy month-month still?

 

[Smokewolf]

I look at the bang for your buck. , You could spend 100 bucks for the entire year of DDO.

TLDR ~$241 dollars of value.


For each month I am not listing all the item in the VIP bag, just the most expensive, or try to give something a value.

Non-Double Bonus points

Rough price $1.00 per 75 points

Get the easy one out of the way first. DDO Points.

VIP already get 500 points a month times a year... + 6000 DDO point. (6500 / 75) ~ $87 dollars


First Time Sign up

5 shared bank spaces ( 10 shared is 1000 points, so half is ) ~ 500 DDO Points

1- Month
Bonus +500 DDO Points


2- Month
Bag of Many Things
Ethereal Rest Shrine Statuette ~ 700 DDO Points

I would say the Omni Dust because you used to get 50 dust for 50 points.. so 2500 dust is 2500 points... But they are not selling it any more for some reason, but it is in the Trunk you can buy for 3700 DDO points but you get so many other things in that Trunk.. So I am just going with what I can find on the DDO store right now and that is.. Ethereal Rest Shrine Statuette


(Technically the Flawless Siberys Dragonshard (Feat swap token) is most expensive because you can only buy Flawed Siberys Dragonshard from the DDO Store and that is 60 DDO points per.. costs 1,000,000 Flawed Siberys Dragonshard to make one Flawless Siberys Dragonshard so 1 million x 60 DDO points is 60,000,000 ddo points or $800,000 dollars!!!!! )



3- Month
Bonus Character Slot ~ 625 DDO Points

4- Month

+10% Item Durability Ward ~ Worthless No DDO Point Value

This is a pointless gift.

5- Month
Bag of Many Things
Ethereal Rest Shrine Statuette ~ 700 DDO Points

6- Month
Lightning Storm Trail ~ 2500 DDO Points

Based on most expensive mount you can buy in DDO store right now.

7- Month
VIP Artisan’s Advantage~ Worthless to 160 DDO points
+10% to Crafting XP. In addition, each time you click a Collectible node you get a chance to gain a Crafting Material Token

I feel this is worthless because how many people sit around and craft nonstop for a year or however long you plan to be a VIP. You can buy 100% potion stack of 10 for DDO 160 points.

8- Month
Greater VIP Bag of Many Things

Lesser Heart of Wood ~2500 DDO Points

9- Month
VIP Discovery Boost ~ Worthless to 300 DDO Points


Get a +1% increased chance of named loot dropping for your characters in chests that stacks with Elixirs of Discovery.

Just using 10 poitions of the greater treasure +15 to rolls for loot. I dont know what 1% increase chance will be.
According to DDO wiki Running Elite quest gives you 33% chance already, every reaper + is another 1% supposedly if its still accurate.
The potions are supposedly 5% boost. So ... ya.. hard to give value to this.. Want 1 % just run 1 reaper higher than you normally do Run R2 instead of R1

10- Month
Bag of Many Things
Ethereal Rest Shrine Statuette ~ 700 DDO Points

11- Month
5 shared bank spaces ( 10 shared is 1000 points, so half is ) ~ 500 DDO Points


12- Month
Storm Cloud Rider Mount ~2500 DDO Points.

Total Sum of Points ~ 11,685 DDO Points or about $155 dollars of value. PLUS dont forget the DDO points you already get 6000 and 500 points $86 Dollars of Value

So my very very rough estimate of the package is about ~$241 dollars of value. For the price of 99 dollar Full year VIP SUB.


Disclaimer... I know its very subjective. Its hard to give value to the new mount, and the lightning cosmetic. Its hard to put accurate prices on those because its first time seeing it in the game when it comes. So the COOL FACTOR gives them more value, buts its subjective value.

My biggest issue with this is, claiming the stuff. If you pay them 100 dollars up front, and you dont log in for whatever reason. Maybe you had to run your kids to the Moon and you dont plan to be back for about 6 months. You 100% should be getting those items regardless.
You paid for it, you should better get it. This is something that I feel really needs to change, else its another Vaseline image picture I will put up.
They have the ability to do it, so do it.

Other issue is, the Shared bank space. My biggest beef with SSG is the lack of empathy for bank space. They create all this content and new items, but we have no where to put it. 30 mules is unnaceptable. Logging in and out for hours each day moving gear is unnaccptable.
Also what happens if you let your VIP run out and you lose those 10 shares bank spaces? Where do those items go? Im guessing they just stay there, you can withdraw only until you get back down to your non vip shared bank amount? Im guessing that is what it would be.

Consider that all the above you've mentioned is 100% digital content and only has value based on what the store "demands". Beyond that, your (explative) crazy to assume that anyone with a pulse would part with $250, much less $50 for a VIP subscription. Especially when none of the above improves a players quality of life one (expletive) iota.

Only items really worth anything from the DDO-Store are the Augment / Senient / Bone toolkits, Otto's-Boxs and Hearts. Even then, these items exist in an artificially created market, due to the mechanics of the game requiring (most all of) their use. Had DDO stayed 100% subscription based, much of the above (items) would never of gotten scripted. There'd be no need to pay to remove augments, as no toolkits (monitary gatekeepers) would stand in the way of a players pursuit of progress.

Yet here we are a decade + later, hating on the DDO store / VIP Subscriptions, and rightfully so. It's a micro-transaction hell disguised as a usefull gateway for character improvement. Which in may ways reflects of the current state of life in the United States. We pay for through the nose for crappy school, healthcare, and legal representation. You know, the things that are the pillars to having a successful life and a strong civilization are blocked by monetary gatekeepers. (Just like the DDO store)

Hence, why should any of the VIP shyte that's offered come as a complete shock to anyone, when a large percentage of you are conditioned to "accept" and just pay anyway? The Developers understand this much, and it's why they'll aways offer up the minimum effort. Especially when we've convinced ourselves time-n-time again, that they'll for sure cater our needs on the "next" update.

(Drops the microphone, and steps off soap box)

-Smoke

 

[Cmecu]

No I get that value is subjective. But its not subjective whether you own it after paying for it or not. How can the Cloud have the same value as a purchased mount that I can use forever after? A character slot that I own has actual value, one that I only have access to while subbing is a rented perk that simply doesn't have the same value. So YMMV but putting the same point value on it and then converting that to a dollar value is very misleading.

We have to start some where with a value.. now the goal posts can be moved. Based on the data and my estimates, you would say the value is much lower. Which I would agree. I started with a rough number, you can move it on the scale , how far down would you slide it?

 

[Greyhawk5]

Its all Greta's fault...somehow....

 

[Cmecu]

Purchasing an item is now different. Why did I have to upgrade (with USD) my Saltmarsh Pak (bought via points) to use that fuggin' VIP Coupon? And concurrently unlocked teleporting? It's a gimmick. It started a while ago. I understand the frustration but... how much is a monthly sub now? Can u buy month-month still?

ya you can. Its 15 dollars per month. but it would cost you 30 dollars for 3 months. Kind of strange to be sure. A firts time player is better of paying 30 bucks because your getting a 10 dollar per month sub if you pay 30.

A person can keep paying 15 each month.. 3 months. thats 45 bucks.. may as well just do the 3 month for 30 bucks

 

[Nickodeamous]

First Time Sign up

5 shared bank spaces ( 10 shared is 1000 points, so half is ) ~ 500 DDO Points

1- Month Bonus +500 DDO Points

2- Month Ethereal Rest Shrine Statuette ~ 700 DDO Points

3- Month Bonus Character Slot ~ 625 DDO Points

4- Month +10% Item Durability Ward ~ Worthless No DDO Point Value

5- Month Ethereal Rest Shrine Statuette ~ 700 DDO Points

6- Month Lightning Storm Trail ~ 2500 DDO Points

7- Month VIP Artisan’s Advantage~ Worthless to 160 DDO points

8- Month Lesser Heart of Wood ~2500 DDO Points

9- Month VIP Discovery Boost ~ Worthless to 300 DDO Points

10- Month Ethereal Rest Shrine Statuette ~ 700 DDO Points

11- Month 5 shared bank spaces ( 10 shared is 1000 points, so half is ) ~ 500 DDO Points

12- Month Storm Cloud Rider Mount ~2500 DDO Points.

Total Sum of Points ~ 11,685 DDO Points

Nice way to look at it, but not realistic...as some of these would never get purchased...

My personal valuation

Things I would never pay for and are essentially useless to me
5 shared bank spaces
1- Month Bonus
2- Month Ethereal Rest Shrine Statuette
4- Month +10% Item Durability Ward ~ Worthless No DDO Point Value
5- Month Ethereal Rest Shrine Statuette
6- Month Lightning Storm Trail
7- Month VIP Artisan’s Advantage
9- Month VIP Discovery Boost
10- Month Ethereal Rest Shrine Statuette
11- Month 5 shared bank spaces
12- Month Storm Cloud Rider Mount

Things I may pay for
3- Month Bonus Character Slot ~ 625 DDO Points – only if I needed more backpack spots
8- Month Lesser Heart of Wood ~2500 DDO Points – I’d say the % that I would actually buy a +5/+20 heart is like 10%, so the value is really 250 to me
Total Sum of Points ~ 625+250 = 875 points

 

[Falkor]

Wow, I just read that if you pay for VIP for the whole year ... get the mount ... and unsub, you can't summon that mount.

talk about ... just .... wow ..... I can't even wrap my head around that kind of logic. What in the actual wow?!

I had actually been considering subbing, b/c I do like cosmetics ... and a year for $99 isn't horrible with some of the other perks that come with vip.

I read that and just noped on out of that consideration.

Who at SSG is responsible for these kinds of decisions?! I cannot imagine the entire team is on board with the decisions. They are categorically bad decisions. The buck stops somewhere. Where?

 

[Greyhawk5]

Wow, I just read that if you pay for VIP for the whole year ... get the mount ... and unsub, you can't summon that mount.

talk about ... just .... wow ..... I can't even wrap my head around that kind of logic. What in the actual wow?!

I had actually been considering subbing, b/c I do like cosmetics ... and a year for $99 isn't horrible with some of the other perks that come with vip.

I read that and just noped on out of that consideration. Who is responsible for these kinds of decisions?!

I supposed thats the definition of "loyalty". You have to keep up that loyalty to get the benefits. If you don't you lose most of the benefits. But when the benefits themselves aren't worth it then I don't think its much of a deterrent to just unsub.

What I find a little annoying is I have had one or two VIP accounts since 2006 but none of that matters in this programme. Your a noob and paid for one month, you get month 1 benefit. If your an old hand and paid probably thousands over the years, you get the exact same thing as the newbie.

Those bags...I mean one item for one character on one server? Really? *boggle*

 

[Cmecu]

Nice way to look at it, but not realistic...as some of these would never get purchased...

My personal valuation

Things I would never pay for and are essentially useless to me
5 shared bank spaces
1- Month Bonus
2- Month Ethereal Rest Shrine Statuette
4- Month +10% Item Durability Ward ~ Worthless No DDO Point Value
5- Month Ethereal Rest Shrine Statuette
6- Month Lightning Storm Trail
7- Month VIP Artisan’s Advantage
9- Month VIP Discovery Boost
10- Month Ethereal Rest Shrine Statuette
11- Month 5 shared bank spaces
12- Month Storm Cloud Rider Mount

Things I may pay for
3- Month Bonus Character Slot ~ 625 DDO Points – only if I needed more backpack spots
8- Month Lesser Heart of Wood ~2500 DDO Points – I’d say the % that I would actually buy a +5/+20 heart is like 10%, so the value is really 250 to me
Total Sum of Points ~ 625+250 = 875 points

I agree there is nothing worth being purchased. I just gave it all a generic value.
The only thing on that entire list to me are the character slots. Im not a cosmetic person. I dont pay attention to what peoples characters look like or mine, or what I am riding on. So those things have no value to me. I do know there are many people that are head over heals about cosmetic anything. Guhhh World of Warcraft.... all the mounts...

Anyway.. The Character slots are something we shouldnt even be messing with because they are creating a huge problem. They make all this content, and new items, but give us no place to put it all.
I have an account that has I think 24 character slots.. 4 of them are ones I play.. other 20 are mules. There is no sense in that. Sure I can lessen that if I run the mules thru coin lords and Kundark favor to get some more inventory tabs and bank tabs.. but it shouldnt have ot be like that.

 

[Cmecu]

Here is an idea..

Think of 12 really super nice items.
Mounts, woods, lots of XP pots... XP bonus month... Whatever just 12 really super nice things..

Create a box and in that box, put those 12 items you can choose from. To get one of those items... You need to be a VIP.. You can pick 1 item. The box goes on a 30 day cool down.
The only way for the box to unlock again is to be a VIP. Then you can pick one of the other items. and so forth..

It wont require you to be a continuous VIP, its just that you need to be a VIP to get the cool down to start for the next item.
This way some people who can only VIP for 3 months.. Will get to cheese 3 items from that box. Maybe 5 months from then, they can afford VIP for another 3 months.. So they can choose another 3 items..

People will say, well then people will only be VIP for the first X amount of months to get the best items.. i.e. mounts, lightning etc.. This is true.. BUT not everyone is into cosmetics. I am not. I personally dont care one bit about mounts, or what people look like. I never pay attention. So something else of great value needs to be in the box..

like a month of super XP 10%, or
Sentient XP 25,000 , or
having access to an expansion pack that you dont own.
Mounts.
cosmetics..
Triple or more.. Daily Gold rolls for a month

ETC..
Something someone can pick in whatever order they want every month. But it has to be something enticing enough for people to want to keep being VIP to pick which monthly item they want.

 

[Aelonwy]

Cmecu

in case you missed it Cordovan posted this:

One update: We will be doing away with the requirement that you remain VIP in order to summon/use the trail or mount, once you've acquired it, it's yours.

Which to me solidly changes the value of the VIP changes, maybe not quite as high as you initially determined but certainly far higher than I was willing to value the list at first blush.

 

[Warsaga]

They had... There is a capacity and there is also a budget - 2 different things ... I don't want to defend them, but I don't want to say SSG bad either.

This is fair.

 

[Shear-buckler]

A far better system would be something like this.
Every month you sub you get an additional +1% VIP XP bonus (max +20 additonal VIP XP)
Every 6 month you sub you get a +1% bonus to named loot drops (max +5%)
Every 12 months you sub you get +1 free chest reroll (max +2)
Every 10 months you sub your VIP DDO point bonus increases by 100 (max +300)
Every x month you access a new tier of cosmetics/mounts to permanently unlock.

If you unsub you lose access to the bonses and freeze your progression.

The value of VIP and long term VIP would skyrocket and a lot more players would be enticed to sub. Players starting out 3 years from now would be behind but still able to catch up with perfect reliability.

The system we got instead will be bound to either have insignificant bonuses or create massive permanent gaps between new and established players.

 

[NomadDog]

My thoughts on the VIP program are in my video I posted over in Creators and Makers. That video is me taking a look at it for myself through the lens of someone who is already VIP. What is being offered is ok as bonuses to what I already get with VIP. I'm not sure if these new things would have been enough to pull me into being a VIP if I was still a Freemium player.

 

[Falkor]

You seem like a nice person.

I'll be the first to admit that I get frustrated with this community as a whole and really wonder what purpose these boards serve. Yet there are a lot of amazing people who play this game. I'm really grateful to have met them and have the chance to get to know them through this game.

To label everyone as a bunch of "fing cry babies" speaks volumes about the kind of person that resorts to that kind of language. Very special.

And let us remember, in programming terms, alpha is just a buggy draft version unfit for release. "Alpha" .. lol. Pretty amusing honestly.

 

[Greyhawk5]

The budget thing...I don't buy it. When SSG's other franchise, LoTRO gets a much much much better VIP perk than DDO, its obvious where our money is going....not into DDO.

Your sub seems to be being spent on the more lucrative franchise, with only a fraction allocated to DDO I reckon.