PraetorPlato
Well-known member
just don't go THF—TWF or SWF pally are awesome.
14 Pal/X Dlord vs. Pure Dlord vs. Pure Paladin
- Thread starter Mordenkainen
- Start date
Sarlona Raiding
Well-known member
Tier 3 Divine Crusader gives you the option of maul for THF and other options for TWF/SWF. With wood elf you can use falchion as favored weapon. You can dual wield or go swf with ignition if you wish.
If you are soloing THF is the way to go hands-down. Nothing else will clear dungeons faster. If you want to be a boss beater you go TWF or SWF.
Mordenkainen
Please SSG, no more nerfs. Thank you!
Apart from the obvious feat differences are all the TWF, THF, SWF paladins the same builds? If so, can I get some details on what to get enhancement, spells, and feats wise.
Sarlona Raiding
Well-known member
You don't need the cleave feats as they share a cooldown with the cleaves in the KOTC tree.
Aside from the combat style feats and improved critical I usually take both power attack and precision and pick once to use based on the situation. As a general rule if you aren't sure use power attack on mobs and precision on bosses, but as you get experience with the builds you might optimize further.
I have been taking epic fortitude ever since horrid wilting became overtuned with high skull reapers, but I heard it was stealth nerfed a good while back so I am going to try running without it to see if that is really the case.
When I ran bladeforged as a real simple R6 solo build I took quicken because it's impactful enough to burn a feat.
If you want to solo above R4 I recommend having a 100+ bluff with gear swaps so you can bluff vengeance reapers and take them out before attacking the mob. Esp with THF and SWF with ignition vengeance reapers are a pain due to strike through. I am easily able to bluff 90% of the vengeance reapers - it's just the ones that spawn after I enter combat that are problematic.
The really good paladin spells you don't want to miss are obviously holy sword, zeal, rightous command, angel skin and of course death ward, healing.
Beyond that people have really strong opinions, but my experience is that you have to fine tune it yourself based on factors only you know - playstyle, who you group with, what content and difficulties you want to run. For example, quicken isn't a recommended paladin feat but I find it works really well as part of a solo bladeforged build.
droid327
Well-known member
Not all Pals. Welfs can favor Falchions.
STR>CON>CHA, THFx3 IC:S Prec, Stun Blow, and one flex feat (Dodge, Quicken, Emp Heal, Shield Mast, etc.)
41 KotC 6 Sac Def 8 VKF 11 Welf is the core, rest flex into Sac Def or VKF or Falconry or Welf depending on RAP.
Spells are pretty much "get all the good ones": CLW/ProtE, Angel/RC, CMW/Prayer, CSW/HS/Zeal/DW
Mordenkainen
Please SSG, no more nerfs. Thank you!
Interesting. CHA is either first or last and flip flops with STR. People tel me to hardcote focus on CHA because that's where a ton of spell and save benefits come from, others say just to dump into STR and CON like I'm making a Barb.
Which is it?
droid327
Well-known member
CHA based is more balanced, STR based for more offense and Stunning Blow
Welf is a STR race though so blends a little better with STR pal
Sarlona Raiding
Well-known member
You can make either work, it just depends on your personal priorities for the build.
The advantage of Charisma is that divine might is based on charisma and so is holy retribution. Dire charge uses highest stat.
As a paladin I am not going to bother with combat expertise, improved trip, improved sunder, stunning blow or any of the strength based feats. Yes, you will get some benefit from greater color spray but it's not fantastic, but considering the cost I thought it was worth taking on a heavy investment character built to solo.
PraetorPlato
Well-known member
If you're str max, CHA is secondary or tertiary (for trance).
Mordenkainen
Please SSG, no more nerfs. Thank you!
Good point... Stun Blow and Improved trip are fantastic, but do I have enough feats to even fit all that in if going pure Paladin?
But then I have no CC's which are crucial for soloing in high tier Reapers.
Sarlona Raiding
Well-known member
R4 is kind of that comfortable solo level where you can binge watch netflix while strolling through quests.
At R6 it's not much different than R4 except you have to be able to deal with vengeance reapers and you need better self-healing to overcome the penalties (not just cocoon). You have to be a bit more on your toes because of vengeance reapers. Having a bard buffing alt on another acct helps alot with the healing. Some people have tanky healers auto follow them around the dungeon with aura which also works well.
Above R6 I mostly run with 2 guildies and mostly 3-manning R10s. I will run high skulls solo for challenge once and while to test out a build, but I don't think soloing high skulls regularly is something I'd ever be interested in. sometimes I succeed and sometimes I don't, but eventually I'll succeed if it's the right build and I really want to do it.
Soloing high skulls is more about mastering reaper content than build, although generally a tanky build with 80%+ of top tier dps is what works best in high skulls solo. So using ignition with a shield in KOTC with a deep splash in sacred defender is the way to go solo R7+. Bladeforged THF/SWF is great for zooming through R6 fast, but falls off solo above R6. Shoot for a 350+ AC ( you can get 400 easy with past lifes) and 5k hp. High PRR and MRR. You can also make multiple gear sets - one for strolling through R4s and another for high reaper.
For example, you can use a 3-piece vecna tank set and get all artifact the melee power, doublestrike, damage bonuses from other sets - ideally with 2 sets using 3 pieces including a legendary gem of many facets.
As far as a cc, it's good enough cc on a tanky build. Dire charge goes against a fort save and greater color spray is suprisingly effective against low will save enemies even with a lowish dc with just 2 augments and having a high charisma. Just make sure you identify any super dangerous champs asap and take them out. I bluff all the orange and red named reapers before engaging the mobs if I can to make things easier.
Good luck, I would ask yourself the question if soloing high skulls on a regular basis worth it. I think you will find the answer is currently no, although over time it might get easier and of course you might just be more skilled than I am. I still find soloing high skulls challenging and too much work to do for anything but challenge.
All the best on your build!
PraetorPlato
Well-known member
That’s probably not a bad strategy, but the build and strategy you outline are nowhere near 80% of top tier DPS-probably 30-40% at best.
Sarlona Raiding
Well-known member
It's a solid entry level build if you are trying to solo high skulls. My experience is that you can still clear mobs fast with bastard sword and board. Boss fights might not be 80%, but they are generally the easy part of the quest anyhow. You will probably be around 280-310 Melee Power going a bit more tanky depending on bonuses and such. You still get procs from feareater, holy retribution, slay living and parlyze on ignition. Based on my experience you won't be taking mobs down at a 35-40% rate - they will go down fast.
If he wants to solo R10s, he needs to be beefy.
He's asking for build help. You can actually offer a positive suggestion rather just being negative and criticizing all the time.
PraetorPlato
Well-known member
?? I've been giving concrete info all thread, and I agreed that was a decent strategy. I'm just noting that tanky pally with a shield will be nowhere near the DPS potential of a DPS pally, which given that half the thread's on how to get the best DPS out of pally variants, seems pretty relevant!
Mordenkainen
Please SSG, no more nerfs. Thank you!
R7 solo on a frenzied berserker is my "cap". It's freaking hard with roughly 38 Reaper Points, and I find myself spending more time buffing up than anything.
R4/5 I'm on cruise control. Shocking how a couple of skulls make ALL the difference.
Looking at the numbers with 100+ Reaper Points and Most of the Past Lives, R7 will turn into a cakewalk.
I am wondering if I can make it a "cakewalk" with this character if I adjusted builds. I'm considering just going full Pally with Ignition and Colossus go straight down the THF/SWF/bsword line grab the capstone min/max he gear and filigrees and see if R7 will get any easier.
Maybe?
Mordenkainen
Please SSG, no more nerfs. Thank you!
It is and I'm taking your advice along with everyone else's here as well.
What I'm really after is Solo-ability of a build through High Reapers and not so much Raid Push DPS.
I'm perfectly content doing R1 raids ad nauseum. Where I place the bar is solo play without any hirelings in certain "gauntlet" quests. I get the most "hair raising" thrills out of that scenario more than anything.
Marshal_Lannes
Well-known member
The pure Paladin meta is SWF. DDO is incredibly easy to change builds. Trying a MC split is pointless, in my opinion, if you don't know how the pure class performs. Then what are you basing it on? What random people say on a game forum? Play a pure Dragonlord, then play a pure Paladin. After that, you can decide how much you want to mix and match. For example, how do you know if you want T5 of Dragonlord or KOTC if you've never tried it yourself? There are a myriad of other implications as well such, as the benefit you get from the many Fighter feats vs the more feat-restricted Paladin. Will adding Fighting levels to a Paladin be worth the trade-off? Etc. etc. etc.
Mordenkainen
Please SSG, no more nerfs. Thank you!
This.I know what pure DragonLord provides. But I never driven a full on built Paladin.
SWF as in Longsword or Bsword? And why SWF?
Cough. Macrotechnic ignition + demon engine pally/dlord with fire strip. Cough.