All players should be able to open elite

[Fhrek]

How much are you willing to pay for this?

I pay for VIP, so isn't an issue for me particulary.

But, I indeed know people that likes to run First time alts for various reasons (test builds, farm favor on other servers, bank mules with Kundarak+Coin Lords favors, park as Necro openers, etc etc etc). And I don't meddle with their choices.

Yes,

They could prove me wrong by just giving this to you as a QoL adjustment. But they already sell it as a QoL adjustment.

Ten - Eleven years ago it made sense to have Hard/Elite opening bind to VIP perks, nowadays it is just a nuisance since Reaper is the main EXP/min difficult. Don't see why it can't change and VIP could add another better perk in place of it.

 

[cocopufff]

You ned 2 PLs to open elite/reaper. What I used to do (and what I would still do if I gave a rip about the lawn mower simulator aspect of this game) is go to straight to 30 on first life, ER back to 20 (PL#1) then TR back to 1 (PL#2) - now you have 2 PLs and can open elite/reaper.

I can verify that this doesn't work. Only heroic past lives count for opening quests. I recently did a 30 TR + 20 TR and could only open hard. It wasn't until second TR that I could do elite.

 

[cocopufff]

So you want less value for VIP?

No. I want VIP value that actually supports long-term players. This perk is almost useless for people who spend their time TRing a lot, as is the adventure pack since they've already given it away three times. I thought I was fairly clear in my post about the fact that I actually think they need to add benefits to VIP since the two major ones both don't appeal to dedicated players (which is going to be the majority of the people who would be willing to sub in the first place.)

This whole "it scares away new players" thing would be a really solid argument if it was based on data instead of feels.

The game has hemmoraged players massively since I played several years back. There is a mountain of data to suggest that the new player experience is lacking. You can blame that issue on whatever you want--the thing is, things which "feel" bad are always going to be contributing factors. Like I said, some people will sub out of frustration, but as someone who has done a lot of market research, when people are faced with either frustration or spending, the most common course of action is rage quitting rather than spending.
DDO has a lot of frustration points with its monetization. This is just one of them. And in this case, because a majority of VIPS are also going to be people who've TR'd, you're causing frustration for almost negligable gains. Better to offer other perks that long-term players actually care about instead.

I was a new player about 2 years ago. I'm still here, I sub, I've bought all the expansions, and I'm having a great time.

Genuinely glad you're enjoying the game! I am too, or I wouldn't be taking the time to make recommendations like this.

 

[Chai]

I can verify that this doesn't work. Only heroic past lives count for opening quests. I recently did a 30 TR + 20 TR and could only open hard. It wasn't until second TR that I could do elite.

Not only is this incorrect currently, Ive been doing it the way I outlined the entire time ER was available.

This character has 1TR + 1ER and can open on elite/reaper. Never been in quest before.

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[rabidfox]

Not only is this incorrect currently, Ive been doing it the way I outlined the entire time ER was available.

This character has 1TR + 1ER and can open on elite/reaper. Never been in quest before.

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That's an epic quest, epic/legendary quests don't follow the lockout rules.

 

[Chai]

That's an epic quest, epic/legendary quests don't follow the lockout rules.

Ive been doing it the way I outlined in heroics as well, the entire time.

 

[Spook]

I can verify that this doesn't work. Only heroic past lives count for opening quests. I recently did a 30 TR + 20 TR and could only open hard. It wasn't until second TR that I could do elite.

I believe any True reincarnation should work but I havent personally verified that

 

[Oliphant]

Agree with everyone being able to open elite. Similar to the free DDO quests giveaway, anything given out will be met with new threads whining about VIP value though (oh well).

 

[Spook]

Ive been doing it the way I outlined in heroics as well, the entire time.

I have just tested this on Lam and I believe you are mistaken epic+heroic TR will only allow you to open hard

 

[LunaCee]

Ive been doing it the way I outlined in heroics as well, the entire time.

And as I've got a 2nd lifer that did the 30 and 20 deal themselves... it can only open Hard in heroics. So no, one cannot instant elite from doing an epic and true reincarnate. It takes TWO TRs to get the ability to open on elite in heroic.

 

[Tanis]

I pay for VIP, so isn't an issue for me particulary.

But, I indeed know people that likes to run First time alts for various reasons (test builds, farm favor on other servers, bank mules with Kundarak+Coin Lords favors, park as Necro openers, etc etc etc). And I don't meddle with their choices.

Yes,

Ten - Eleven years ago it made sense to have Hard/Elite opening bind to VIP perks, nowadays it is just a nuisance since Reaper is the main EXP/min difficult. Don't see why it can't change and VIP could add another better perk in place of it.

It still makes sense today especially when coupled with HCL

 

[Chai]

And as I've got a 2nd lifer that did the 30 and 20 deal themselves... it can only open Hard in heroics. So no, one cannot instant elite from doing an epic and true reincarnate. It takes TWO TRs to get the ability to open on elite in heroic.

That sucks. You should ask them to fix that. It worked for me over the years quite nicely. I have no horse in the race convincing anyone who refuses to believe it here. I'll just continue to play my 1TR+1ER alts in reaper, when I play at all of course, which is a few hours a week at best and zero alot of the time (when new games come out or other games run xpacs).

 

[DDO Gaming]

Actually I agree...kindof. The first 5 levels should be unlocked to give new players a feel for the game, allowing them to levelup faster.

But I would then supplement that by locking reaper for those levels so only VIP can access reaper level.

Recall SSG need to pay their bills too so the needs of new gamers need to be counterbalanced with the need for regular income

 

[SiliconScout]

There should be incentives to become VIP. This seems like a pretty good one. I could see selling an account wide unlock, but it definitely shouldn't be given away for free.

If anyone can open elite difficulty, then that may decrease the value of DDO points in a non-direct way.

100 favors = 25 DDO points As a non-VP, you can easily farm that favor in like 30 minutes or even less on a freshly made character.

And if they remove the whole 100 favors = 25 free DDO points, then that will really harm those who can't spend much money on the game (me included). Also, opening Elite isn't that much of a big deal on live servers on Hardcore that's where it matters, and if it's strictly enforced through VIP, then I guess that adds more revenue to the game.
also a very specific scenario, but if you're premium or f2p and you're a few DDO points shy of a desired purchase, then you'd likely farm the favor quickly on a freshly made character rather than spend a few dollars to get some DDO points.

These are the only issues I could think of; otherwise, I agree 100% with your post.

That's only valuable during hardcore, you only need two TRs to make it obsolete anyway.

Personally, I'd like some actually good stuff for my VIP subscription instead, so I have no problem with this being the default.

So as someone who subbed for HCL (when that was a requirement) it was "nice to have. But let's be honest (and as a premium I can attest) groups are plentiful and you can EASILY run all elite and even reaper without VIP. Posted many groups with "need an opener" never had to wait to find one. So it's value is VERY limited in Hardcore. It's a non-issue unless everyone ends their VIP subs.

As for the DDO favor run, yeah you can farm $0.25 worth of points in under an hour for sure. Not sure that your 30 minutes holds up but let's say it does. That means you can "make" $0.50 an hour with alts. VIP's have always been able to do this and I have never one seen or heard of one doing that, it's not worth the time and investment. It's a non-issue.

This unlock was only useful in Hardcore and once I didn't need to sub to get in there I actually kept it because I wanted to support the game but as they continued to make ill thought out changes, charging for "mini expansion BS" and retro nerfs I cancelled my sub. I still play hardcore and own most of the content but there is nothing in the current package that entices me to grab it. I cannot imagine the "elite opening" is the make or break point for a new player regardless.

I say let them open on elite jump in solo and get their ass handed to them. It's how most of us old timers learned and became better players.

 

[cocopufff]

Actually I agree...kindof. The first 5 levels should be unlocked to give new players a feel for the game, allowing them to levelup faster.

But I would then supplement that by locking reaper for those levels so only VIP can access reaper level.

Recall SSG need to pay their bills too so the needs of new gamers need to be counterbalanced with the need for regular income

Locking reaper wholesale is an extremely bad idea. It means players without VIP wouldn't be able to join 90% of the available groups.
I really get tired of how many people on here are like "they need to pay their bills." Yes, the game needs to earn money. It will earn money better if the monetization is improved to not scare people away. If the game doesn't attract more new players, it is doomed to die. Warner Brothers monetized this game around "milk every last drop" which is a strategy that WILL kill off any MMO long-term, and they lost a crap ton of players for it. Monetization that is more fair then "We expect you to pay a monthly sub + buy all of our expansion packs + you still have to buy any new races/classes/enhancement trees we make too + also you don't get much storage unless you buy that too + oh and also buy astral shards since that's the only currency that matters now" will lead to a lot more longevity. SSG seemed to realize this when they did the coupons + made several races/classes free. I hope they continue rolling back some of the monetization to make the game more inviting yet.
Even with VIP gaining access to elite opening, the value proposition for it sucks. Which is why I advocate that they put a feature that EVERY player (not just non-TR players) would appreciate in, and remove this one entirely. As it stands, it's useless for most VIPs so it's just this weird point of annoyance for new players.

 

[rabidfox]

Locking reaper wholesale is an extremely bad idea. It means players without VIP wouldn't be able to join 90% of the available groups.

It's the kind of thing people would rage quit over.

 

[SiliconScout]

Actually I agree...kindof. The first 5 levels should be unlocked to give new players a feel for the game, allowing them to levelup faster.

But I would then supplement that by locking reaper for those levels so only VIP can access reaper level.

Recall SSG need to pay their bills too so the needs of new gamers need to be counterbalanced with the need for regular income

Locking Reaper entirely would be a HORRIBLE idea. It would result in a lot more people walking away than you would gain in VIP subs I expect.

You want them to earn their income there are a lot of things they could do that are better ideas.

• VIP benefits that are actual useful benefits (a handful off the top of my head)
  • Permanent buddy bonus
  • X number of free chest re-rolls per day (even 1 would be nice here)
  • No need for RAID timers to repeat raids (let the timers still be required for Premium and FTP)
  • a permanent 5% or 10% discount on the DDO store
  • a permanent 10% discount on buying DDO points (let's entice them to open up that wallet for the biggest point bundle)
  • A VIP only area (think portable hole or hall of heroes) with:
    • that have vendors with more player friendly margins
    • aggregate all the public vendors and amenities in the game in once place.
    • an NPC that can port you to any quest entrance directly
• Maybe have a vendor that for Astral Shards (say 1 AS / base quest level) does the NPC port thing instead of putting it in the VIP only rooms. "bring me an astral shard adventurer and I can power magic that will whisk you to wherever your heart desires"
• Cosmetics that actually look good and players want to buy could be a good source (looking @ you Aelonwy)
• Cosmetics for mounts (hello barding anyone) though I suspect they didn't design the models with that in mind (short sighted as usual there)
• A vendor area that would allow you to change crafting materials so maybe I have to trade in 5 or 10 of Arcane uncommons that I don't need for 1 arcane uncommon that I can actually use. This could be an area that you purchase access to (like the Hall of Heroes transport) that comes free with VIP.

I mean I literally spent less than 3 minutes to come up with that list. and 30 seconds of that was getting the link to Aelonwy's profile.
But locking Reaper behind a paywall is as bad, if not worse idea than locking Hard and Elite behind one, which is what is currently happening in effect.

 

[GrayJedi AntiProPaladin]

• A VIP only area (think portable hole or hall of heroes) with:
  • 
    
  • aggregate all the public vendors and amenities in the game in once place.

Oh yesssssss! as VIP it would be great QoL to Not have to horse around all over the places going thru different portals (and loading screens) to buy all the necessary items for adventuring - hirelings, different scrolls of various levels from different shops, potions, wands, etc.etc. all the class trainers

it could indeed be like a VIP Lounge Portable Hole with all the amenities together and it could be an NPC you can talk to or Teleport spell to like the Portable Hole. And there could be some NPCs could stay out in the center of the various marketplace areas that have the other vendors and say "hey would you like to have a Tour of the VIP Lounge? (we can show you all the conveniences you will get in VIP Lounge, but you can't buy anything until u becoming VIP" and players can choose in the dialog box "Yes, show me the VIP Lounge/Champagne Room/etc." (but they can only do the tour say like once per month, or once (or three times) per Life or something like that - just as IRL they don't keep giving you Tour of the VIP room over and over again) and when you get teleported to the VIP Lounge it's like super duper opulent or something hella cool...like getting the House P buffs in there too, oh and your Guild's buffs too (but if u want to invite non-guildies to get buffs u still have to do it from your guild's ship...unless they're also VIP, perhaps)

and/or rather than Teleport spell you get a clicky thing like the sharn passport/bottle of mist thing that gets you to all those places if you own the content (but missed out on the higher tier Ravenloft bundles) but of course this clicky only works so long as you're VIP, but when VIP sub lapses the clicky still remains in your inventory; but it's sad bcuz u can't use it anymore and so u want to re-sub

 

[cocopufff]

Another thing they could put on VIP only is permanent access to a server with a test dojo that resets at regular intervals. I know a lot of players would LOVE the ability to test builds out before comitting to them.
A certain amount of free resurrection cakes would also be a great benefit. Actually giving people free content in terms of classes, universal enhancement trees, or iconics would ALSO be a great step forward, since there's no world where VIPs should have to shell out in order to buy that crap too. Even a discount on expansion packs would be a great way to soften the blow of expecting people to buy both.
There's no shortage of ideas of things they can give to VIPs to make it better. I just honestly think opener privileges (and the adventure packs, actually, same issue here) are both ones that aren't doing much to entice dedicated players, and are better off just being cut and given away to everyone at this point. It would drastically improve the new player experience while doing almost nothing to cut SSG's bottom line since most subscribed players already have those things without subscribing. And if they gave other benefits, you'd likely entice even more people to subscribe, especially since new players are now more likely to stick around.

 

[CherryBomb]

Ya'll just want the gravy without paying the price or working for it.