Blanket nerfs

[Shear-buckler]

i feel bad for you, your argument is changing from i cant play my toon with out this ability that is overpowered, to there are too many nerfs.

Yeah, that's how it goes when they are defending a weak position. "Nerfs bad" is not a tenable design principle.

 

[I dont Like gimps]

this is a disjointed mess of an argument, i was pointing out that melee is not really as meta as the person i was replying to was making them out to be. so casters that are good has no contabution to the discution being had.

I think u completely dodged scrags argument he was politely telling that u might lack the knowledge to understand How/why melees are strong and hence meta just as an example I myself didnt Know about wolf jittering at first so I wondered why people say wolf dps is so good and everything Now obviously when i learned about the jittering and my dps increased by a lot it made sense that wolf is/was meta

 

[albertjr]

Mate are you delusional? "if I found my build to be unplayable after a nerf I would try to fix it" The Point is Some builds were allready hard to play in r10s to begin with For say Artificer caster in 99% of the cases a decent Meta caster would be a better sub for it But I dare to say it was still to a level where u could have fun , play favor builds and not be a burden to your group. Nerfs to Dbreath or Magic Harm classes that Werent even close to the classes that are the reason for the nerf. Even if the Reaper magic dmg nerf wouldve only applied to Druid/sorc/alch they would still be way ahead of other casters so why would u indirectly nerf those who were allready struggling and Just Nerf sorc/alch/druid a bit instead of attacking the whole branch

Melees being Meta specifically RC is a fact...

Mate, you ask if i am delusional, no. i am someone that had been clawing their way into their preferred playstyle. i have been playing undead melee wizard, melee warlock, melee cleric, and melee artificer for years i have been through the edf nerf to casting range, through the loss of edf making the pale tank less viable, through the nerfs to warlock... my current. build is artificer as warlock is not able to carry my playstyle through the content i run. with each change and update i fix, improve alter and tweak my builds to go that much further.

 

[Shear-buckler]

I think u completely dodged scrags argument he was politely telling that u might lack the knowledge to understand How/why melees are strong and hence meta just as an example I myself didnt Know about wolf jittering at first so I wondered why people say wolf dps is so good and everything Now obviously when i learned about the jittering and my dps increased by a lot it made sense that wolf is/was meta

Wolf twitch and razorclaw should be nerfed too, along with adrenaline.

 

[I dont Like gimps]

You both don't have to be bad as melee, you just aren't in a meta melee build. While now the melee plasytyle is the most efficient of the three, it does not mean that all melee builds are equally efficient. The same thing happens in that style as with casters, there are builds that are far behind the metas and even underperform.

When I hear from devs that they want to bring balance, to me that means that they have to adjust the op slightly downwards without destroying builds as a whole and instead of blanket nerfs that make builds that are not in a good position even worse, solve the problems of those builds to... well, you know... bring balance. Shame they don't do that.

Blanket nerfs are bad because they don't solve anything and even less so if they are overnerfs. They eliminate options, make underperforming builds more underperforming than ever, and don't fix anything in the end.

I was refferencing to a point in time when RC didnt exist and 11/8/1 was "the thing" and meant to point out that my melees are often much worse than others who run the same class/build

 

[albertjr]

I think u completely dodged scrags argument he was politely telling that u might lack the knowledge to understand How/why melees are strong and hence meta just as an example I myself didnt Know about wolf jittering at first so I wondered why people say wolf dps is so good and everything Now obviously when i learned about the jittering and my dps increased by a lot it made sense that wolf is/was meta

i am aware of twitching

 

[I dont Like gimps]

my current. build is artificer as warlock is not able to carry my playstyle through the content i run. with each change and update i fix, improve alter and tweak my builds to go that much further

so your idea of fixing is Playing a whole nother class?

 

[I dont Like gimps]

i am aware of twitching

That wasnt the point ...

 

[Lacci]

so your idea of fixing is Playing a whole nother class?

Reminds me of the whole "Starfield" discussion, where people critisizing the game were told "You´re playing it wrong"

 

[albertjr]

so your idea of fixing is Playing a whole nother class?

i rotate, but yes in this case. artificer has great healing and improved dps. it also has more feats available. it is tied for second place with blighted wolf under undead.

 

[albertjr]

Reminds me of the whole "Starfield" discussion, where people critisizing the game were told "You´re playing it wrong"

it is highly probable, the way to play ek with edf correctly was rotate spells and melee, once i started using spells like necroblast and meteor swarm, my damage and enjoyment of the class increased. it has improved my dps also. as i still use it to this day.

 

[Meowcifer]

I think in terms of design it is better to "build the game players want to play". Meaning finding the things that people are playing, and why they are playing them, then trying to rework things that are being actively avoided with those principles in mind. Instead of nerfing things because they are popular or strong, give people reasons to branch out and try something else and hopefully some might stay. Its highly likely that this approach will lead to power creep, but at least get everything to parity before crunching down if you need to.

 

[I dont Like gimps]

i rotate, but yes in this case. artificer has great healing and improved dps. it also has more feats available. it is tied for second place with blighted wolf under undead.

it feels Like im talking to a wall at times most people are rotating the Point being was if a change makes u want to swap your class and not because the class isnt uber broken anymore (druid shifter Before Warrior core 5 Nerf) but because it feels useless and your "fix" is Playing artificer instead of warlock that means the nerf was a bad idea....

 

[Lazuli]

I think in terms of design it is better to "build the game players want to play". Meaning finding the things that people are playing, and why they are playing them, then trying to rework things that are being actively avoided with those principles in mind. Instead of nerfing things because they are popular or strong, give people reasons to branch out and try something else and hopefully some might stay. Its highly likely that this approach will lead to power creep, but at least get everything to parity before crunching down if you need to.

I agree, although i add that adjusting with a scalpel to lower op things is not a problem, but overnerfs that make options useless or blanket nerfs that affect weak and strong builds at the same time should be totally avoided.

 

[YeeboF]

I agree, although i add that adjusting with a scalpel to lower op things is not a problem, but overnerfs that make options useless or blanket nerfs that affect weak and strong builds at the same time should be totally avoided.

This is really the issue. For example, right now the intention is for Dragon breath, which is in a 12 second cooldown, to start at 1d6+3 damage per level and is kind of hard to hit with because it's a cone tied to where your head is pointed. So let's envision a player fresh to epics that gets this ability...

If playing a wizard they will already have delayed blast fireball, that does 1d6+7 per level on a five second cooldown. Even with DBFB being capped at 20 (210 base damage), Dragons breath will be significantly worse until around level 32 (208 base damage). . .when it will almost catch up to a level 7 spell except that it will have more than double the cooldown, be harder to target, and only be usable in near melee range.

If they are playing a fire sorcerer, DBF will be capped at 22 (if I'm not mistaken) and have a 3 second cooldown. If a Dragonborn Fire sorcerer, it will be capped at 24.

And of course this discussion ignores level 8 and 9 spells.

Further up in the tree, they can make the damage better than DBFB...but only because DB isn't capped at 20/22/24. Of course it will still have at least double the cooldown and be much harder to target. So who exactly is going to be excited to get this Epic Strike? Will anyone actually use it, or will the tree only get used for the Draconic Destiny Mantle going forward?

Yes, 1d6+10 x 2 with no level cap is too much. But 1d6+7.... max is way way too little. That's pretty much self evident.

I also get what others are saying that this is just one part of the tree. But (1) epic strikes are the signature abilities of a tree, they need to be strong and (2) the entire idea of Epic abilities is that you are excited to get them. That is one of the stated design goals of the epic revamp.

If it's at all debatable whether an Epic Strike even deserves a place on your hotbar, then a major design goal has either not been met or been abandoned.

However, that's not even what annoys me the most. The devs know damn well that the revamp makes it a borderline ability, and they are communicating it as if it's still going to be a desirable ability that has a clear place in the meta. It feels like gaslighting.

 

[Tonquin]

This is really the issue. For example, right now the intention is for Dragon breath, which is in a 12 second cooldown, to start at 1d6+3 damage per level and is kind of hard to hit with because it's a cone tied to where your head is pointed. So let's envision a player fresh to epics that gets this ability...

Yes, 1d6+10 x 2 with no level cap is too much. But 1d6+7.... max is way way too little. That's pretty much self evident.

Heads up, this ability was changed early in the preview cycle! Check out this post in the Lamannia thread for more information. If you'd like to keep up to date with further developments, the Staff Tracker automatically organizes all developer posts for easy perusal. Thank you!

 

[Lazuli]

Heads up, this ability was changed early in the preview cycle! Check out this post in the Lamannia thread for more information. If you'd like to keep up to date with further developments, the Staff Tracker automatically organizes all developer posts for easy perusal. Thank you!

But you devs have also said in the stream that his MCL is now 20. Dragon Breath's upgraded damage 1d6+10 MCL 20 is not competitive.

It should be at least the same damage as Acid well (AoE, 1d6+18, MCL 20), and ideally a little more. That's what we're complaining about, Tonquin, the damage is very low, it doesn't reach that of a level 9 spell.

An epic spell, and even more so a strike that shares cooldown with the rest of the strikes, should have at least the same damage to a level 9 spell. And actually a little higher because it is *epic*

 

[Col Kurtz]

are they nerfing Blankets now? how will we keep warm at night?

 

[DBZ]

The beatings will continue until morale improves and no more blankets

 

[Meowcifer]

are they nerfing Blankets now? how will we keep warm at night?

Set the blankets on fire, you'll be warmer. :3