Bombardier Cores and Tier 5

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Georgiahusker

Member
Unless I'm missing something, I was at caster level 32 (Capped at level 27 by MCL) on my vial spells with the 2 Feats Pyrite and Advanced Pyrite Studies. I went to Fred and dropped both feats and my MCL dropped to 26 on all of my vials. With those 2 feats and no points in bombardier I'm at caster level 27 and MCL 27. If I fill out that tree and do not take T5 Augmentation I'm at caster level 30 MCL 27. So it seems you're right that taking T5 Aug does nothing and be skipped after level 20.
 
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Unuys

Active member
Georgiahusker said:
Unless I'm missing something, I was at caster level 32 (Capped at level 27 by MCL) on my vial spells with the 2 Feats Pyrite and Advanced Pyrite Studies. I went to Fred and dropped both feats and my MCL dropped to 26 on all of my vials. With those 2 feats and no points in bombardier I'm at caster level 27 and MCL 27. If I fill out that tree and do not take T5 Augmentation I'm at caster level 30 MCL 27.
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No you aren't missing anything.

If you use up two feats you will be at MCL 27 on your spells. If you fill out the Bombardier tree you will be at CL 32

-> your spells are capped at level 27 even though you cast them at Caster level 32. That's exactly the problem, the tree gives +5 CL but they don't actually do anything because all of your spells are already capped by MCL
 
Lazuli

Lazuli

Well-known member
DBZ said:
When physical damage gets nerfed by 33 percent he'd rather have that i guess
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I don't want nerfs for anyone. I think we have entered a vicious circle of nerfs and anger that has only harmed the game by losing players (many, many people I know have left the game, tired of nerfs and constant changes that require changing builds)

But it is incredible that some people continue to object to every proposal to help the casters despite their current state.

And now that you mention it, that 33% nerf should be reversed. It is completely unfair, and unbalancing.
 
The Narc

The Narc

Well-known member
Unuys said:
That's certainly a subjective answer and not really helping this discussion since we are trying to solve an OBJECTIVE problem here with Alchemist's nuker tree.
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Whether it is objective because of the nature of the added + 5 CL which are applicable for a multiclassed alchemist.

My objective view is that the bombardier is the special case where MCL can be adjusted, all other versions can not.

My other objective view is that the Alchemist doesn’t need one extra bit of power they are plenty good as is.
 
U

Unuys

Active member
The Narc said:
Whether it is objective because of the nature of the added + 5 CL which are applicable for a multiclassed alchemist.

My objective view is that the bombardier is the special case where MCL can be adjusted, all other versions can not.

My other objective view is that the Alchemist doesn’t need one extra bit of power they are plenty good as is.
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Having the +5 CL for multiclassed alchemists is very theoretical. There is no practical case where someone would go Alchemist as a nuker and then multiclass it, but if that is really a concern the devs could also just put the +2 MCL into the capstone to not allow that if they think it would be too strong (which I highly doubt).
 
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The Narc

The Narc

Well-known member
Unuys said:
Having the +5 CL for multiclassed alchemists is very theoretical. There is no practical case where someone would go Alchemist as a nuker and then multiclass it, but if that is really a concern the devs could also just put the +2 MCL into the capstone to not allow that if they think it would be too strong (which I highly doubt).
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Nope no power is beeded to be added at all to alchemist not as a capstone ir in any other case, alchemist is already a top notch caster.
 
U

Unuys

Active member
The Narc said:
Nope no power is beeded to be added at all to alchemist not as a capstone ir in any other case, alchemist is already a top notch caster.
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Yes yes casters are always too strong especially after the 33% nerf to r10 dmg and 75% nerf to Dragonbreath. I am sure you want to nerf casters even more and help those poor melees get a little bit of more power.

With your subjective views you are not really bringing this conversation forward, some people will always think casters are too strong and some people who main casters at cap can tell you right away that they became irrelevant right now in this meta because a melee has cc, clears rooms with 2 cleaves and a lot more defenses.

This is a simple problem with a simple solution, you don't need to make it harder than it is. Other nuker trees have MCL increases, while alchemists nuker tree doesn't. Simple solution is to add MCL in their tree to give them what every other nuker already has. Very simple, isn't it?
 
D

DBZ

Well-known member
And 200-300 k sneak attack crits thats not like 2x what orchid blossom was doing either

Wait a minute and the other monk strike still performs perfectly
 
R

Raedier

Well-known member
The Narc said:
Nope no power is beeded to be added at all to alchemist not as a capstone ir in any other case, alchemist is already a top notch caster.
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Already a top notch caster amongst casters but when comparing to other styles in the game, melee atm, alch is still hot garbage. as are all casters atm, more power needs to be given to epic destinies and balanced properly. don't give us only 1 working epic strike that outperforms everything and leaves newbs hanging with their mouths open thinking "How did he just instakill that entire epic R1 mob with just 1 spell????" and don't change it for for 2 years when u just demolish it into the ground.

the easiest way to rebalance casters after the gutting you have done is to give the epic strikes just a basic dmg dice upgrade, something along the lines of just a direct upgrade to the strike itself or have it be somewhere else in the tree for more point investment. it's really not that hard.

just look at the ASAH prices all rare caster filigrees dropped from 400 shards average to barely selling for less then a 100 and dreadbringer went from 400 average to 1500??

people are playing melee and not caster cuz caster is garbage atm, 90% of my groups are melees and that is not an overexageration.
 
The Narc

The Narc

Well-known member
Unuys said:
Yes yes casters are always too strong especially after the 33% nerf to r10 dmg and 75% nerf to Dragonbreath. I am sure you want to nerf casters even more and help those poor melees get a little bit of more power.

With your subjective views you are not really bringing this conversation forward, some people will always think casters are too strong and some people who main casters at cap can tell you right away that they became irrelevant right now in this meta because a melee has cc, clears rooms with 2 cleaves and a lot more defenses.

This is a simple problem with a simple solution, you don't need to make it harder than it is. Other nuker trees have MCL increases, while alchemists nuker tree doesn't. Simple solution is to add MCL in their tree to give them what every other nuker already has. Very simple, isn't it?
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Stop comparing yourself to meles and just play what at what you do play, alchemist are just fine for destroying things.

As for you thinking i play melees and that is why i have posted in this thread, you are dead wrong, anyone who has played with me for any period of time(as an example of a player many people know - Kimbere from Helter Skelter), I loathe melee, it is simply the most boring mode of play in the game. I play with one of the most heavily nerfed casters in the game for fun, that being wizards, i laugh everytime the devs try and take it down another notch and still prove they dont know their own game as it is easy to trash their content with super nerfed classes.

The only time the devs have any control of beating players with content is when they limit movement and action, and they try hard all the time to find new formulas for that to be achieved.

The alchemist doesnt need anything more just play it better and dont rimstromm the class into not being good, and if you want to do the damage of the other power house classes then you should change your game style and play such meta’s.
 
U

Unuys

Active member
The Narc said:
Stop comparing yourself to meles and just play what at what you do play, alchemist are just fine for destroying things.

As for you thinking i play melees and that is why i have posted in this thread, you are dead wrong, anyone who has played with me for any period of time(as an example of a player many people know - Kimbere from Helter Skelter), I loathe melee, it is simply the most boring mode of play in the game. I play with one of the most heavily nerfed casters in the game for fun, that being wizards, i laugh everytime the devs try and take it down another notch and still prove they dont know their own game as it is easy to trash their content with super nerfed classes.

The only time the devs have any control of beating players with content is when they limit movement and action, and they try hard all the time to find new formulas for that to be achieved.

The alchemist doesnt need anything more just play it better and dont rimstromm the class into not being good, and if you want to do the damage of the other power house classes then you should change your game style and play such meta’s.
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This isn't really about melee vs casters, just like I said earlier looking objectively at nuker enhancement trees Alchemists are lacking the MCL increase which they should have. Do you have any argument against this except "alchemist strong enough already"?
 
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U

Unuys

Active member
DBZ said:
Games not a vacuum they have to balance from the top

And the top is overperforming massively
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100%, I don't really understand the statement that alchemsits are top notch casters and don't need buffing. If you look at the data right now you can see that alchemsits together with Favored Soul are literally the LEAST played classes in the whole game. Lol but sure they are strong enough already and people just don't like the class, right? ;)
 
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rabidfox

rabidfox

The People's Champion
Unuys said:
This isn't really about melee vs casters, just like I said earlier looking objectively at nuker enhancement trees Alchemists are lacking the MCL increase which they should have. Do you have any argument against this except "alchemist strong enough already"?
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Trees that have things that make no sense are great to point out and ideally should they should either add MCL to cover that CL or look into replacing a bunch of that CL with other stuff. There's a bunch of classes with stuff in their trees that just don't make sense, like cleric's Divine Healing that ticks for so little or warlock's TS core 18's attack speed that doesn't do anything. It's a reoccurring issue of power bloat/updates/etc. causing trees to be outdated and/or bugs to make them need work.
Unuys said:
100%, I don't really understand the statement that alchemsits are top notch casters and don't need buffing. If you look at the data right now you can see that alchemsits together with Favored Soul are literally the LEAST played classes in the whole game. Lol but sure they are strong enough already and people just don't like the class, right?
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It's the effort vs reward from them that's an issue. I find to play alch well takes playing very actively vs getting the same general results off more relaxed gameplay on other classes. If I'm gonna play a class that makes me get sweaty to get peak performance then I want it feel like it's worth it.
 
D

DBZ

Well-known member
And legendary alchemical elemental augmentation needs to be fixed too since its also not working
 
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