How does Wizards kill bosses and other monsters that can't be killed by insta kill?

Lazuli

Well-known member
I would have liked, Gunga, if you had trusted a little more in the people who play wizards every day instead of arguing with us about every statement we made about the state of the class currently. Here we have, your conclusion is the same as ours. The wizard can do it, the problem is comparative time and effort.

Those times could be improved, but it's not surprising because your character certainly hasn't been able to be optimized in such a short time, nor are you used to the little tricks of the class; all classes need training time to perfect their play. You are a good player and you could definitely improve those times with a little more optimization and practice. But the final result would not change. That is also our conclusion.

The saddest thing is that the class doesn't need huge improvements. The only thing it needs, as I have said a thousand times in this topic and in others, is for the devs to remember that wizards are not sorcerers and design a few options oriented to their playstyle. But far from their intentions, it seems. You just have to see the perk they have given to the VIP casters. The one who receives the sorc gives it a broader spellbook, literally the wizard's only advantage. The wizard, when it works (lol), will be basically cosmetic, qol (as VIP perks should be). Very sad.

No, the wizard does not need a bypass. But it needs greater ease of equipment to have several decent spellpowers / crits (or an option in archmage tier 5 that allows unifying the stats of several elements). The wizard needs a mantle designed for his playstyle and not for specialists. That alone would make a big difference. No more would be needed. The wizard does not need to be an equal in nuking to the authentic nukers, for that wizard has the DC casting. But it needs help to not be left so far behind.

And yes, I agree with you that all the nukers are in a bad place right now. The nerf to spellcasting in r7+ was ridiculous at a time when it was no longer needed, they had already introduced improvements to other playstyles, it was not necessary to destroy the nukers. The additional destruction of caster strikes when the nukers were already clearly behind seems like a bad joke on the part of the devs. But the devs never back down from their nerfs, so...

Anyway. The wizard can be fun. I still like the class. But I would really like if for once the devs would get out of their constricted design and start designing for all the playstyles in the game, and not just for the ones they favor... for whatever reason.

I'm back to work, this thread has really left enough of a bad taste in my mouth.
 

Guntango

Well-known member
I would have liked, Gunga, if you had trusted a little more in the people who play wizards every day instead of arguing with us about every statement we made about the state of the class currently. Here we have, your conclusion is the same as ours. The wizard can do it, the problem is comparative time and effort.

Those times could be improved, but it's not surprising because your character certainly hasn't been able to be optimized in such a short time, nor are you used to the little tricks of the class; all classes need training time to perfect their play. You are a good player and you could definitely improve those times with a little more optimization and practice. But the final result would not change. That is also our conclusion.

The saddest thing is that the class doesn't need huge improvements. The only thing it needs, as I have said a thousand times in this topic and in others, is for the devs to remember that wizards are not sorcerers and design a few options oriented to their playstyle. But far from their intentions, it seems. You just have to see the perk they have given to the VIP casters. The one who receives the sorc gives it a broader spellbook, literally the wizard's only advantage. The wizard, when it works (lol), will be basically cosmetic, qol (as VIP perks should be). Very sad.

No, the wizard does not need a bypass. But it needs greater ease of equipment to have several decent spellpowers / crits (or an option in archmage tier 5 that allows unifying the stats of several elements). The wizard needs a mantle designed for his playstyle and not for specialists. That alone would make a big difference. No more would be needed. The wizard does not need to be an equal in nuking to the authentic nukers, for that wizard has the DC casting. But it needs help to not be left so far behind.

And yes, I agree with you that all the nukers are in a bad place right now. The nerf to spellcasting in r7+ was ridiculous at a time when it was no longer needed, they had already introduced improvements to other playstyles, it was not necessary to destroy the nukers. The additional destruction of caster strikes when the nukers were already clearly behind seems like a bad joke on the part of the devs. But the devs never back down from their nerfs, so...

Anyway. The wizard can be fun. I still like the class. But I would really like if for once the devs would get out of their constricted design and start designing for all the playstyles in the game, and not just for the ones they favor... for whatever reason.

I'm back to work, this thread has really left enough of a bad taste in my mouth.

Right, so what you were arguing for isn't a good fix. I appreciate that you motivated me to do my own research, but the class is in worse condition than just boss damage. I hope that whoever is in charge of fixing Wizards and DPS casters, in general, is more informed and provides each nuker class with the distinction that each deserves.
 

Lazuli

Well-known member
Right, so what you were arguing for isn't a good fix. I appreciate that you motivated me to do my own research, but the class is in worse condition than just boss damage. I hope that whoever is in charge of fixing Wizards and DPS casters, in general, is more informed and provides each nuker class with the distinction that each deserves.
The class could receive more improvements, yes, but what we were asking for in this topic was nothing excessive or op. We asked for a bit of design justice to bridge the gap a bit. And many people threw themselves at us as if we were asking for the moon and the sun.

I already tell you that I don't want anything OP, that always ends badly with overnerfs that leave the class in a worse place than before. If they would simply improve what I said I would be very happy. It would help the class a lot, even if you don't believe it now. I have no need nor desire for the class to be a nuker on par with the current A+ casters.

And yes, I know the class has more problems than that. It is a class whose strong point is supposedly versatility, but in DDO devs are taking away its versatile points one by one, while they give to the sorc (which right now has its problems, I DO NOT want a nerf for the sorc nor any other class) more versatility that allows it to get into the wizard's territory and overcome it.

So you can see how they forget the class: Do you know that there are not even arcane tempest scrolls? It may seem bad to you to have to wait to get the proper rare scroll, but there are spells that don't even have scrolls and that's worse. How many years have passed and they haven't had time to create arcane tempest scrolls? Do you know how many times we have asked them?

There is also no excuse for devs to have designed spells that legitimately belong on the wizard's list, and yet not add them there, sequestering them in other classes, races and EDs. They give versatility to everyone, except the class that should be versatile. Okay, devs, add them to all those places, but also put them in the corresponding list, make having prepared spellcasting mean something!

Anyway. I don't have much confidence in devs, to be honest. Their design seems very erratic to me and without deep knowledge of what they modify so lightly. At some point they will introduce some feature for the casters that will briefly bring them back to life to ruin them again in their next overreaction, just as at any moment it will give them a nervous breakdown and they will nerf the melees for no reason. Isn't this the norm that we have been seeing in recent years?
 

AbyssalMage

Well-known member
Hardly an insult. if the truth offends you, that sounds more like a personal problem? All i did was state the explicit facts that you and he may or may not agree with. And to counteract your argument specifically, a LOT of people said the exact same thing about ranged nerfs leading up to Horizon Walker. Horizon Walker did not address the underlying issues with ranged builds, and in no way shape or form have they successfully "sold" that power back to the players. Hence why people are still ticked off to this day.
Actually Horizon Walker is still required on a bow build. They are beholden to it because of the previous nerfs to bows. They took power away and sold it back in the form of HW. Although you would probably argue they didn't sell 100% back to us so your argument would be similar to, "They didn't nerf bow to sell it back to us in HW and a future update" when that is exactly what they did.

They've even said that future updates will attempt to address the power they recently nerfed. I wonder how munch of that will be placed behind a pay wall like HW was?
 

AbyssalMage

Well-known member
The class could receive more improvements, yes, but what we were asking for in this topic was nothing excessive or op. We asked for a bit of design justice to bridge the gap a bit. And many people threw themselves at us as if we were asking for the moon and the sun.

I already tell you that I don't want anything OP, that always ends badly with overnerfs that leave the class in a worse place than before. If they would simply improve what I said I would be very happy. It would help the class a lot, even if you don't believe it now. I have no need nor desire for the class to be a nuker on par with the current A+ casters.

And yes, I know the class has more problems than that. It is a class whose strong point is supposedly versatility, but in DDO devs are taking away its versatile points one by one, while they give to the sorc (which right now has its problems, I DO NOT want a nerf for the sorc nor any other class) more versatility that allows it to get into the wizard's territory and overcome it.

So you can see how they forget the class: Do you know that there are not even arcane tempest scrolls? It may seem bad to you to have to wait to get the proper rare scroll, but there are spells that don't even have scrolls and that's worse. How many years have passed and they haven't had time to create arcane tempest scrolls? Do you know how many times we have asked them?

There is also no excuse for devs to have designed spells that legitimately belong on the wizard's list, and yet not add them there, sequestering them in other classes, races and EDs. They give versatility to everyone, except the class that should be versatile. Okay, devs, add them to all those places, but also put them in the corresponding list, make having prepared spellcasting mean something!

Anyway. I don't have much confidence in devs, to be honest. Their design seems very erratic to me and without deep knowledge of what they modify so lightly. At some point they will introduce some feature for the casters that will briefly bring them back to life to ruin them again in their next overreaction, just as at any moment it will give them a nervous breakdown and they will nerf the melees for no reason. Isn't this the norm that we have been seeing in recent years?
They spend their time nerfing the things that work and ignoring the glaring problems they create/ignore. And there are forumites who are completely happy when others are in misery and want more nerfs to compound that misery.

Ask for the "Sun and Moon" because you'll be lucky if you get 💩.
 

vik

Active member
I like the idea of giving the wizard a few DC boosts. Currently I'm doing everything I can on my build to increase DCs. I wish I had the luxury to focus on other things like DPS. Not everyone plays deep gnome; we don't have all the past lives, raid filigrees, tomes, reaper trees, sentient slots, and reaper frags that the advanced players do. So yeah, I have the IoD quarterstaff because I need that extra DC. All of my build and gear choices revolve around squeezing out some extra DC so I can land CCs and instakills in Vecna quests. With a 122 enchant and a 120 evo I'm finally able to do some decent CC vs. most monsters. But even with that I've had champs that ignore my greatest shout/greater shout combo and just keep coming. I can't imagine how frustrating this would be for a first lifer.
 

Quartis

Member
Easy, Adventures and Champions dont play Legend Reaper/Elite. Hard and Normal has quite easy reachable dc. Aswell as low level epics dont need such huge dc values.

y, archmage dc skills are quite expensive 4 points for 2 in one school and then another 2 points for 1 in some other school.
 

jglabare

Member
If you plan to solo, you have to build to solo, which means including damage for things that are immune to CC/Instas. Will it take longer? Yes. Is it impossible? No. Will being in a group of people with a variety of builds and focuses be more efficient, usually yes. That is (afaik) by design.
I've found a intensified and empowered Thunderstroke works wonders on dealing with bosses. Raiyum on epic elite is an exception for that, for him start spamming black dragon bolt, melfs, and cover the battleground in acid fog.
 
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