How does Wizards kill bosses and other monsters that can't be killed by insta kill?

[Guntango]

What if you do roll a DPS wizard and solo R10s, then SSG nerfs wizard DPS because they're too strong?

If you don't hear from me, Wizards are OP.

 

[Lazuli]

At least to me the issue with wizard isn't raw dps. High level arcane spells deal much more damage than they once did.

The primary issue I have with wizard is immunties and enemies that heal from an element. As a side effect this impacts gearing and spell selection significantly since you have to gear for multiple spell power types. I am not familar with the greater ruin/ruin nerf, those spells work great for me generally and the only nerf I am familiar with is R7+ not R4.

Draconic is especially promblatic for wizard when dealing with enemies that are healed by your main element. Let's say for example you are playing a palemaster specializing in negative, fire and force which is 3 things and requires significant gearing. Now you run Castle Ravenloft and get the cards with 2 red named golems at the end.

For the iron golems negative doesn't work at all. Fire heals the golems which leaves you with force. Ruin and Greater ruin are great, but..... there is no way to turn off the draconic fire element of those spells and from my experience the fire portion heals the golems more than the force portion hurts them. So unless you one shot them they are useless. Every other spell in your spell book is going to get big damage reduction or something like disintegrate just doesn't scale well to legendary. There likely won't be any souls to refill your sp. So yeah, it's going to suck as as wizard and nobody should need a spreadsheet to understand that.

In addition force and negative don't benefit from energy criticals. There are a few light and negative damage items that boost your crits to make up for that but it's been a long while since gear included those - so they often don't fit well into gear sets. I think the dev that understood the loss of energy criticals and designed those items is either gone or no longer making loot.

For a long time I used casters to solo content because they just had a better toolkit for soloing even though I prefer melee or raiding. At least now I would prefer to solo on my dragonlord because although cc and aoe isn't quite as good as top tier casting, it's close enough and hitting high dcs are easier. Survivability is much better. Single-target dps is much better. I am more useful in raids as a melee by a huge margin.

On balance I am ok with the devs making melee better than casters becasue I found it frustrating my caster would be great for questing, but I would alway have to switch to a melee for raids.

This is game where balances changes always go too far too quick and usually for all the wrong reasons.

I think you get more mileage out of moving to what works vs. trying to explain your concerns to the devs. Other players are going to jump on you in these threads, sometimes to confuse the issue because they don't want their build nerfed, and the devs don't seem very good at weeding through comments and getting at the core issue. The wack-a-mole approach to balance just means the nerfs tend to go too far and the buffs are often times perplexing.

Good luck. If you prefer casting I would go druid or sorc. They are the best 2 casting classes right now. However, why not get some dragonlord lifes and try that out. It should work way better at soloing R4 than wizard and is also better at pushing skulls higher solo. All the best.

Yes- this is the problem, I have said it many times. That's why I've said a thousand times, and several times on this topic, that what the wizard really needs is for the devs to stop designing only for casters with bypass.

If they allowed wizards to equip for all of his spellbook it would make a big difference. There's currently no room in the gear to have decent numbers for all the spells in your spellbook, and you're going to run into immunities very often that will knock out your spells with better numbers. Universal stats like spell lore are a disaster. Force gear is a disaster. It's a problem with the current design -a design that has gone on for YEARS - and not with the class itself.

I said it before, although Gunga only reads the posts that interest him. The problem is not the spells themselves, but the options they give to wizards: all designed for casters with bypass.

We also can see it on the ED mantles. They are not mantles designed for a generalist caster, they are mantles designed for specialists with bypass, who use only one or two elements. Since these mantles only activate with one or two elements and return damage from those same elements, very nice for these casters. You can't see what joy it is for the wizard when the target is immune to those elements. The Magus, which according to Tonquin is the ED designed for the wizard playstyle, is the perfect example to illustrate why these devs have not had the wizard playsyle in mind. What joy, cold and negative, elements that have immunities in abundance.

And then there's the lack of specific spells. We should have specific spells to deal with golems and such, like there are in pnp. But not.

 

[Lazuli]

LOL

It's disingenuous of you to hide poor behavior behind nits. Are you saying you're not creating a fuss over feelsies and lashing out at people with genuinely good points?

Please show us the math or the pics.

I'm TRing to WIZ now, tomorrow I'll officially be an authority on maining a Wiz. I'll refine it to be able to solo high Reaps. Thank you for the motivation. If it's truly lacking, I'll come back and help you make the argument you're failing to make. If you don't hear from me, then I assure you Wizard is just fine.

I can solo high reaper with my wizard, you have screenshoots on this same topic. The problem is the big difference with other classes.

Read Sarlona Raiding's post - it lays out exactly the problem with class, which I and other people have also exposed plenty of times.

Enjoy the immunities! I want to see how you enjoy those r10 quests with golems

And don't accuse me of creating discord, please reread the posts.

 

[Guntango]

I can solo high reaper with my wizard, you have screenshoots on this same topic. The problem is the big difference with other classes.

Not all classes can solo high reaper, so good on you for making Wizards look OP.

Read Sarlona Raiding's post - it lays out exactly the problem with class, which I and other people have also exposed plenty of times.

Some points he makes are in alignment with what I'm saying.

Enjoy the immunities! I want to see how you enjoy those r10 quests with golems

Part of soloing R10s is building for the quests you're soloing. I'll be leaving those golem quests for the golem killers, as it should be.

And don't accuse me of creating discord.

Yes'm.

please reread the posts.

Once was enough.

 

[Cenerae]

Speaking as a (relative) newbie and ducking the arguing going on here...

I just got done with my first wizard life. Palemaster/archmage. I don't have much epic gear to speak of, most of what I do have available is for heroics. I ended up doing 20-30 in a mix of sharn gear with a couple of ravenloft pieces to fill out insightful/etc int bonuses, plus two borderlands scepters. So barely scraping by tier I guess? I was able to do some reaper 1 levelling from around lvl 11 until about 16 when my self healing wasn't feeling up to par anymore.

Low heroics felt awful. I ended up playing it as a harper/EK until level 7 when I got wall of fire and death aura. I jumped around walls of fire for a few levels until I got ball lightning and chain lightning, then it was nukes. Sphere of dancing was great in reaper (and glitterdust was good at very low levels) but I didn't find any other CC spells of much use. I'm certain I just lack the experience (and likely lives) to make much of it land, but I think out of all the spells, the buildup, playing as a necro... what a letdown when I finally got to try Wail.

In epics, I was really fragile and couldn't even dream of touching reaper (with fully stacked divine warding I could only reach 72 prr.). None of my instakills worked anymore. Using undeath to death on skeleton archers in epic delera did 600 damage to them instead of one tapping. Wail never seemed to land anymore, nor finger of death. Made me feel like I should have tunnelled on evocation spells instead. For undead, it was either bunching them in an arcane tempest, or love tapping with enervate to drop their immunity and then nuking them with my negative energy spells, since all my other options were reflex saves and skeleton archers are weirdly nimble apparently. For constructs? It was waiting for my draconic mantle (cold. Probably should have picked acid in hindsight) to proc repeatedly and slowly grind them down because casting spells at them was at best highly ineffective.

The life overall didn't feel good for me except for the mid point in heroics. I'm glad it's over with because now I can apply the wizard past life feat to future caster lives, but I feel like EK will be much less agonizing for future wizard ones. I don't know how long I'd have to play for or how much gear I'd need to accumulate to make a DC casting wizard feel good to play, but it's clearly far more than I needed for my minimally geared cleric and favored soul lives that I'd done prior. I'd also be interested to see just how many people actually do high reaper, because you all here are arguing about it but I'm willing to bet you're a small percentage of the playerbase.

 

[Lazuli]

Not all classes can solo high reaper, so good on you for making Wizards look OP.


Some points he makes are in alignment with what I'm saying.


Part of soloing R10s is building for the quests you're soloing. I'll be leaving those golem quests for the golem killers, as it should be.


Yes'm.


Once was enough.

1- All classes can solo high reaper. Not all builds, not all toons (need investment) but yes all classes.

2-And haven't you realized that what he says is what I have said, over and over again, on this topic and on others?

3-ahhh Now the gentleman is no longer so sure. Gunga, the big problem with the wizards is the immunities and how the devs do not give good tools to use the entire spellbook, which would alleviate the problem. Choosing a quest that aligns with your best elements proves nothing.

4-Yeah? So I'm the one with bad manners?

 

[Guntango]

1- All classes can solo high reaper. Not all builds, not all toons (need investment) but yes all classes.

At least you've made sure that wizards are well-represented.

2-And haven't you realized that what he says is what I have said, over and over again, on this topic and on others?

He was pretty succinct, though.

3-ahhh Now the gentleman is no longer so sure. Gunga, the big problem with the wizards is the immunities and how the devs do not give good tools to use the entire spellbook, which would alleviate the problem. Choosing a quest that aligns with your best elements proves nothing.

The foundation of this game is customization: making specific choices to determine precise outcome. Want to build a golem killer? Have at it: www.ddowiki.com

4-Yeah? So I'm the one with bad manners?

You are not without them, but I forgive easily. XO

 

[Mindos]

What if you do roll a DPS wizard and solo R10s, then SSG nerfs wizard DPS because they're too strong?

We're going to have to start talking in code. Finally, a use for my Elvish/Dwarven 1980's copy protection rune wheel!

 

[rabidfox]

We're going to have to start talking in code. Finally, a use for my Elvish/Dwarven 1980's copy protection rune wheel!

ireballfay oombay ! obmay eadday !

 

[Mindos]

ireballfay oombay ! obmay eadday !

Spero haec secreta colloquia rubicon non transire

 

[Lazuli]

At least you've made sure that wizards are well-represented.


He was pretty succinct, though.


The foundation of this game is customization, making specific choices to determine precise outcome. Want to build a golem killer? Have at it: www.ddowiki.com


You are not without them, but I forgive easily. XO

Does a person make them well represented? Wow, Gunga, I'd say no. In fact, the general consensus will tell you that wizards are not at all well represented in these types of challenges.

Yes, it is succinct, we could go into more detail about the wizards' problems, but what he, and the others, have exposed is the core of the problem.

Of course the foundation of the game is customization, but you're going off on a tangent. The problem is that as a wizard there are many immunities that kill your dps, in a wide variety of quests. It's not about there being two or three quests that are difficult for the class. And other classes do not have that problem. That problem exists because the game promotes a specialist use of elements between mantles and gear, and because there are many spells that do not work in epics, such as disintegrate, which should be the bane of constructs, but it is very disappointing in the cap.

Mmm, is that link to the dragonlord? I think you are agreeing with us if you say that the solution is to turn our wizads into dragonlords.

Well, Gunga, be mindful of your own behavior. You have gone to provoke from the first moment, without taking into account the arguments that you did not like. It seems that you can give me ugly adjectives and distort what I say but you get upset if I tell you that you are looking for conflict. But unlike you, I don't think there is anything to forgive you for. I don't get angry over such a small thing. A hug, bud.

 

[Mesmerin]

What if you do roll a DPS wizard and solo R10s, then SSG nerfs wizard DPS because they're too strong?

We buy him beer?

 

[Guntango]

We buy him beer?

Beer's good.

 

[Guntango]

Of course the foundation of the game is customization, but you're going off on a tangent.

This is you not seeing the forest for the trees.

Well, Gunga, be mindful of your own behavior. You have gone to provoke from the first moment, without taking into account the arguments that you did not like. It seems that you can give me ugly adjectives and distort what I say but you get upset if I tell you that you are looking for conflict. But unlike you, I don't think there is anything to forgive you for. I don't get angry over such a small thing. A hug, bud.

You're participating in a campaign to change the game. Any active member of the user base can question your assumptions, especially those made without any supporting evidence. Contrary to your mischaracterizations and because I actually value our little forum community in which your voice booms, I've TR'd my cold druid, which has sat for 6 months since the gutting of caster DPS, into a wizard. I do this in honest discovery, at my expense, to find out what you've been unable to show us. I don't mind. I like the game, and I'm happy to dedicate some time to understand what you're so upset about.

If I were you, I'd thank me, but I suspect I'll receive less.

 

[Lazuli]

Not see the forest? Only because you say it. Maybe you are who is lost.

A campaign to change the game? Lol. Wow, you give me more influence than I have, Gunga. No, no campaign. But I am unhappy with the current direction of the game, and I have tried to get SSG to change a few things: the state of the alts (aka excessive grinding without a catch up mechanism), the continuous overnerfs instead of scalpel adjustments, the current design standardized that harms some classes and makes us lose options, and the VIP subscription (although the latter no longer affects me, so do what they want with it lol). That is not changing the game to a different one, but asking that they return to a design more similar to the one that existed before. I've been here 13 years. I believe that since SSG has taken the game there have been changes that have not been for the better.

If you consider that introducing catch up mechanisms, avoiding overnerfs that create massive waves of discontent, a design less restricted and more tailored to the different playstyles and a VIP subscription that is worth it (by the way, you have also complained about this, it will be that this does affect you...) is to change the game, well okay, I want to change the game. I see it more as returning to a better era of DDO. On the other hand, SSG has also done some things well, and I have praised them. Not everything has been bad.

I have put screenshots in various topics, including this one. If you were expecting me to jump into screenshoots today, I'm sorry, my wizard is on her last TR right now. Soon I will return to wizard again, having finished this last bunch of PLs that the devs have served us. But I have given more than enough explanations, others in this topic have explained the problems that the wizard has as well. So if you don't understand it's not for lack of explanations, Gunga. Could it be that you don't want to understand?

If you consider that cold druid has little dps after the nerf and that is why you have left it in dry dock for six months, I'm afraid that changing to wizard is not going to make you happier. But perfect, try whatever you want.

 

[Guntango]

If I were you, I'd thank me, but I suspect I'll receive less.

Not see the forest? Only because you say it. Maybe you are who is lost.

A campaign to change the game? Lol. Wow, you give me more influence than I have, Gunga. No, no campaign. But I am unhappy with the current direction of the game, and I have tried to get SSG to change a few things: the state of the alts (aka excessive grinding without a catch up mechanism), the continuous overnerfs instead of scalpel adjustments, the current design standardized that harms some classes and makes us lose options, and the VIP subscription (although the latter no longer affects me, so do what they want with it lol). That is not changing the game to a different one, but asking that they return to a design more similar to the one that existed before. I've been here 13 years. I believe that since SSG has taken the game there have been changes that have not been for the better.

If you consider that introducing catch up mechanisms, avoiding overnerfs that create massive waves of discontent, a design less restricted and more tailored to the different playstyles and a VIP subscription that is worth it (by the way, you have also complained about this, it will be that this does affect you...) is to change the game, well okay, I want to change the game. I see it more as returning to a better era of DDO. On the other hand, SSG has also done some things well, and I have praised them. Not everything has been bad.

I have put screenshots in various topics, including this one. If you were expecting me to jump into screenshoots today, I'm sorry, my wizard is on her last TR right now. Soon I will return to wizard again, having finished this last bunch of PLs that the devs have served us. But I have given more than enough explanations, others in this topic have explained the problems that the wizard has as well. So if you don't understand it's not for lack of explanations, Gunga. Could it be that you don't want to understand?

If you consider that cold druid has little dps after the nerf and that is why you have left it in dry dock for six months, I'm afraid that changing to wizard is not going to make you happier. But perfect, try whatever you want.

I must be psychic.

 

[RobShow]

I'm going to have to since you guys can't. You're welcome.

Very easy to say, hard to prove. Just do it! If you do, the only thing I'm going to do is ask you to teach me, I have no problem with that. It's very simple and easy, prove your words!!!!

 

[RobShow]

I can finish quests on my own up to R4. Some I could do up to R6, but the time I need for this is totally unfeasible in any way.

I have no problem acknowledging that there are players who are better than me, in anything there will always be someone better and worse than us. If there are better players than me, please teach us!

Some out there belch math and blah blah blah, prove it! Do what the Sorcerer does, at the same level, high reaper, alone!

 

[Guntango]

Very easy to say, hard to prove. Just do it! If you do, the only thing I'm going to do is ask you to teach me, I have no problem with that. It's very simple and easy, prove your words!!!!

I'm gearing up, running a round of reaps, and getting comfy on it. I'll let you know my progress.

 

[RobShow]

I'm gearing up, running a round of reaps, and getting comfy on it. I'll let you know my progress.

Very serious! Prove your words and if you do, most importantly, teach us!!