Introducing our VIP Loyalty Reward Program!

[The Narc]

I'm with PraetorPlato on this one. A first lifer can do just as well as a triple completionist.

As much as I dislike a specific group on Argonnessen, their first lifer group is showing you don't need past lives to do it. In fact, it's more impressive when a first lifer can compete, and doesn't need that power backing them up.

This is laughable, even though rabidfox liked your post as it suggest anyone can run any content. In no way possible can a first lifer run as equivalent to a triple completionist, one will run any content faster and the other will have to grind more to do the same, and in some cases what is possible on one wont be possible on the other.

Yes great players can accomplish many things with less stats and buffs and gear, but that does not apply to the majority of players. Every hardcore i run with new players i havent run with before and i watch them cower in fear at the aggression that groups i am in run content at a breakneck pace on reaper 2. These players dont stand a chance running content in comparison to a player like rabidfox or myself running a first lifer.

No at endgame there is less of a gap at certain levels of challenge because the epic destinies solve a lot of the weaknesses for players of all ranges, hence why epic/legendary is bot challenging but just end game grind for gear and r10 is pushed to get the most out of that and ask rabidfox how many R10 they are running in the first life challenge and how fast they are being done.

 

[Guntango]

This is laughable, even though rabidfox liked your post as it suggest anyone can run any content. In no way possible can a first lifer run as equivalent to a triple completionist, one will run any content faster and the other will have to grind more to do the same, and in some cases what is possible on one wont be possible on the other.

Yes great players can accomplish many things with less stats and buffs and gear, but that does not apply to the majority of players. Every hardcore i run with new players i havent run with before and i watch them cower in fear at the aggression that groups i am in run content at a breakneck pace on reaper 2. These players dont stand a chance running content in comparison to a player like rabidfox or myself running a first lifer.

No at endgame there is less of a gap at certain levels of challenge because the epic destinies solve a lot of the weaknesses for players of all ranges, hence why epic/legendary is bot challenging but just end game grind for gear and r10 is pushed to get the most out of that and ask rabidfox how many R10 they are running in the first life challenge and how fast they are being done.

Wrong, first lifers can run just as well or better.

 

[Guntango]

This is why we will never get catch up mechanisms. The people that got everything already are just too happy with how it is right now.

Nah, we’re all fine with a catch up mechanism, but saying it’s impossible to catch up is a bit dramatic.

 

[rabidfox]

ask rabidfox how many R10 they are running in the first life challenge and how fast they are being done.

I plan on running r10 quests with other 1st lifers for giggles (mostly because we tend to stop at r4 on HC to avoid the risk of invisible circles killing people- those type deaths are annoying when it's permadeath). It wasn't the objective of the challenge but I want to do it. But it's also not a good metric of anything as new players shouldn't care about r10's as they're learning the quests and other have plenty of time to work up to r10's; r10's aren't the baseline where the everyday players should be running at, they're the far edge location.

edit: we're probably moving the VIP program conversion a bit off track at this point, but more than willing to keep it up over on the 1st life challenge thread if you want to debate the finer details of what can or can't be done.

 

[seph1roth5]

I think the funny part is, people asked a bunch of questions about timing of VIP, like what happens if you start in month 9 or whatever, and devs answered a bunch of times. I haven't seen much, if any, more questions being asked about that, so I'm guessing players are satisfied with their answers.

Tooooootally expecting there to be a bunch of confusion this year because we thought their answers meant one thing but they meant another lol.

 

[Ike]

This is laughable, even though rabidfox liked your post as it suggest anyone can run any content. In no way possible can a first lifer run as equivalent to a triple completionist, one will run any content faster and the other will have to grind more to do the same, and in some cases what is possible on one wont be possible on the other.

Yes great players can accomplish many things with less stats and buffs and gear, but that does not apply to the majority of players. Every hardcore i run with new players i havent run with before and i watch them cower in fear at the aggression that groups i am in run content at a breakneck pace on reaper 2. These players dont stand a chance running content in comparison to a player like rabidfox or myself running a first lifer.

No at endgame there is less of a gap at certain levels of challenge because the epic destinies solve a lot of the weaknesses for players of all ranges, hence why epic/legendary is bot challenging but just end game grind for gear and r10 is pushed to get the most out of that and ask rabidfox how many R10 they are running in the first life challenge and how fast they are being done.

First lifers just completed Reaper 5 Project Nemesis while triple completionists on various server(s) are struggling with their groups. Yeah, this makes a lot of sense. I'm not disrespecting or naming any individual(s), but you are absolutely incorrect.

EDIT: iirc, Cammy stated there is a different challenge every month.

 

[Aelonwy]

I think the funny part is, people asked a bunch of questions about timing of VIP, like what happens if you start in month 9 or whatever, and devs answered a bunch of times. I haven't seen much, if any, more questions being asked about that, so I'm guessing players are satisfied with their answers.

Tooooootally expecting there to be a bunch of confusion this year because we thought their answers meant one thing but they meant another lol.

After the debacle with this months YotD reward I'm expecting there to be issues with the VIP monthly claim reward system.

 

[Ike]

After the debacle with this months YotD reward I'm expecting there to be issues with the VIP monthly claim reward system.

This company is definitely not displaying proper measures to make sure these rewards are claimable. I can't expect anything good from them anymore, expect disappointment until they do something good.

 

[The Narc]

I plan on running r10 quests with other 1st lifers for giggles (mostly because we tend to stop at r4 on HC to avoid the risk of invisible circles killing people- those type deaths are annoying when it's permadeath). It wasn't the objective of the challenge but I want to do it. But it's also not a good metric of anything as new players shouldn't care about r10's as they're learning the quests and other have plenty of time to work up to r10's; r10's aren't the baseline where the everyday players should be running at, they're the far edge location.

edit: we're probably moving the VIP program conversion a bit off track at this point, but more than willing to keep it up over on the 1st life challenge thread if you want to debate the finer details of what can or can't be done.

You will need to reread my post as i said they can still be done but with a first lifer toon it will be more grindy than with a full completionist. There is completely a difference between the two, that is why when the original argument was both can do the same thing, i said it was laughable, one will definitely outperform the other. If that wasnt true then you wouldnt be using the word challenge in your first life thread.

Furthermore i assume you are running the first life challenge for the fun of making the game more challenging or even some great bragging rights, but if you are using it to prove some point that first life toons are equal to completionist toons its a wasted effort because it would be fallacy, as the comparison will fall short in some form whether it be success/failure or the time completion over many varying quests at varying but higher levels of difficulties.

 

[The Narc]

First lifers just completed Reaper 5 Project Nemesis while triple completionists on various server(s) are struggling with their groups. Yeah, this makes a lot of sense. I'm not disrespecting or naming any individual(s), but you are absolutely incorrect.

EDIT: iirc, Cammy stated there is a different challenge every month.

Your example given is a comparison of players not a comparison of first life toons versus completionist toons. Thanks for the response though.

 

[rabidfox]

You will need to reread my post as i said they can still be done but with a first lifer toon it will be more grindy than with a full completionist. There is completely a difference between the two, that is why when the original argument was both can do the same thing, i said it was laughable, one will definitely outperform the other. If that wasnt true then you wouldnt be using the word challenge in your first life thread.

Furthermore i assume you are running the first life challenge for the fun of making the game more challenging or even some great bragging rights, but if you are using it to prove some point that first life toons are equal to completionist toons its a wasted effort because it would be fallacy, as the comparison will fall short in some form whether it be success/failure or the time completion over many varying quests at varying but higher levels of difficulties.

We're doing it because it's something fun to see where we tap out at and what we can do (we've got character limits beyond what any other 1st lifer would be stuck with too); and we've invited any one else to join up and see what they can do under the rules. Most people don't go around running raids at the difficulty we're doing stuff at on their long term characters (hence challenge); it's a great example of what can be done, doesn't mean most folks will nor does it mean they should at the difficulties we're doing.

Since you've acknowledged 1st lifers can run r10 quests, there's really nothing more to say. Just because they might go a bit slower doesn't really matter to me. If want to argue 1st lifers with limited tomes/no RXP/etc. should be able to zoom thru the hardest difficulty setting in the game then go for it; but I don't really think that's a hill I care to climb to debate.

 

[The Narc]

We're doing it because it's something fun to see where we tap out at and what we can do (we've got character limits beyond what any other 1st lifer would be stuck with too); and we've invited any one else to join up and see what they can do under the rules. Most people don't go around running raids at the difficulty we're doing stuff at on their long term characters (hence challenge); it's a great example of what can be done, doesn't mean most folks will nor does it mean they should at the difficulties we're doing.

Since you've acknowledged 1st lifers can run r10 quests, there's really nothing more to say. Just because they might go a bit slower doesn't really matter to me. If want to argue 1st lifers with limited tomes/no RXP/etc. should be able to zoom thru the hardest difficulty setting in the game then go for it; but I don't really think that's a hill I care to climb to debate.

And this is why i thought you would agree with my rational point that there was in fact a difference, lol but i guess you dont want to take that stand point, i mean gun is saying first lifers can do it better than completionists which is laughable if you are comparing mechanics. Now if you are comparing lava divers to the rest of ddo maybe thats true i dont know, not my gamestyle.

But yeah its probably not worth debating anyways, you are definitely right and rational on that.

 

[tiliabloom]

Wrong, first lifers can run just as well or better.

Are you really suggesting that triple completionist or even a smattering of past lives is detrimental? That somehow a first life toon is "better" than a toon with multiple past lives? Or are you suggesting that someone with better skills or understanding of the game can do better than someone with less skills and less understanding of the game? Because if you're claiming the first, then I would love to hear the argument that backs that up, and if it's the second than the toon is largely irrelevant: that is, a more skilled player on a first life toon probably will do as good or better than a less skilled player on a multi-life toon but also a more skilled player will definitely do better on a multi-life toon than a less skilled player on a first life toon.

 

[rabidfox]

And this is why i thought you would agree with my rational point that there was in fact a difference, lol but i guess you dont want to take that stand point, i mean gun is saying first lifers can do it better than completionists which is laughable if you are comparing mechanics. Now if you are comparing lava divers to the rest of ddo maybe thats true i dont know, not my gamestyle.

Being able to do all content does not equal being able to do all difficulties at zergy speeds. I like to tell players they can do all the content in the game at difficulty levels that feel comfortable and fun to them. I tell people that odds are their character can run much higher difficulties than they think it can. I don't have a basis to know where a person's individual skills will tap out on that front; I know there's people with much better reflexes in the game than me. I'm not going to tell anyone past lives aren't good nor nice to have; but I will tell them to enjoy their current life and push it if they enjoy it because that current life probably can do a lot more than what folks on the forums tell them it can.

 

[The Narc]

Being able to do all content does not equal being able to do all difficulties at zergy speeds. I like to tell players they can do all the content in the game at difficulty levels that feel comfortable and fun to them. I tell people that odds are their character can run much higher difficulties than they think it can. I don't have a basis to know where a person's individual skills will tap out on that front; I know there's people with much better reflexes in the game than me. I'm not going to tell anyone past lives aren't good nor nice to have; but I will tell them to enjoy their current life and push it if they enjoy it because that current life probably can do a lot more than what folks on the forums tell them it can.

All good back to the VIP discussion then.

When will they get the vendor that needs to be talked to back on track?

 

[Ike]

Your example given is a comparison of players not a comparison of first life toons versus completionist toons. Thanks for the response though.

But you just said a triple completionist outshines a first lifer, which the stat buffs from past lives are minimal. I don't understand you or your personality, but thanks for commenting.

 

[Shear-buckler]

But you just said a triple completionist outshines a first lifer, which the stat buffs from past lives are minimal. I don't understand you or your personality, but thanks for commenting.

The stat bonuses from past lives and reaper points are massive. That the difference can be overcome by knowledge of the imbalanced game mechanics and a mastery over a weak AI is secondary.

 

[PraetorPlato]

The stat bonuses from past lives and reaper points are massive. That the difference can be overcome by knowledge of the imbalanced game mechanics and a mastery over a weak AI is secondary.

I'm saying something separate—I think that even if you care about just character sheet stats, past lives are the least efficient way to get them. Many ubercomp players have worse char sheet numbers than well-built first lifers with perfect gear and excellent builds.

 

[Kyrr]

The stat bonuses from past lives and reaper points are massive. That the difference can be overcome by knowledge of the imbalanced game mechanics and a mastery over a weak AI is secondary.

Someone on Argonnessen has almost 156 reaper points as a first lifer. I don't see how that relates to past lives, because those can be acquired without TR'ing.

Anyways, as an end gamer. Low past lives is more impressive than a bunch of past lives.

 

[Shear-buckler]

I'm saying something separate—I think that even if you care about just character sheet stats, past lives are the least efficient way to get them.

Obviously getting a proper gear set and a good build is more efficient than grinding past lives, but only up to a certain point.

Many ubercomp players have worse char sheet numbers than well-built first lifers with perfect gear and excellent builds.

Nothing stops them from getting perfect gear and excellent builds. Most likely they don't because they find the past life grind more fun than the end game grind.

Many more ubercomp players have far better char sheet numbers than first life builds.