Most of the single target epic strikes will not be used due to their excessively low damage

[Aelonwy]

Counterpoint, why should a L20 Barb have access to L10 spells at the same point as a L20 Sorc or Druid?

Destinies are not meant to define or redefine your playstyle, but to augment it. L9 spells are your capstones, they're the apotheosis of your class progression. But you cant cast them all the time, so Epic Strikes are meant to fill the space between Meteors or Bombardments etc., just like how SLAs are in heroic class trees.

Counterpoint the counterpoint... a barbarian is not going to have the DCs or spellpower to adequately make use of that Lv 10 spell without significantly cutting into what he needs to take/gear for being a kickbutt barbarian. Why should anyone worry about someone choosing a lesser ability for their build? Even if it supplements some drawback of their build its points spent/one destiny option locked in/gear and possibly feat choices that aren't being used for the barbarians strengths? I mean all epic strikes share the same cooldown right? So if a barbarian is using his epic strike for a caster spell strike then he's not getting his melee epic strike or if he's spending for both he has to carefully consider when to use each right? Pros and Cons.

 

[DBZ]

And what happens to the low end classes wizards clerics warlocks they don't have the spells or the stripping

Or any of the tools they do need

 

[Toblakai]

I am beginning to wonder if Legendary levels will end up feeling all the same because its clear to me they really didn't have a plan for expanding character growth or options past the old level cap which is what I thought was the explanation for revamping Epic Destinies in the first place. I thought we were told Epic Destinies had to be rebuilt because everyone that had ground out their destiny power simply was whatever they were going to be from 20 to 30 and there was very little character growth in those 10 levels because of limited feat options and only gear made you feel your character grow stronger. But gee that looks like exactly what is going to happen from 30 to 40 because you may end up with more Destiny points but by the time you get to 30 you are going to have limited options on what to spend them on.

I am wondering what level 40 will look like, if all it means is that we get more points in the current destinies, characters will not really gain any new power or abilities at level 40. Yeah maybe some incremental stuff, like better saves/prr/mrr from the trees. I really hope they add another tier of destiny abilities by then or it will just be really blah.

 

[Epicsoul]

Counterpoint, why should a L20 Barb have access to L10 spells at the same point as a L20 Sorc or Druid?

Destinies are not meant to define or redefine your playstyle, but to augment it. L9 spells are your capstones, they're the apotheosis of your class progression. But you cant cast them all the time, so Epic Strikes are meant to fill the space between Meteors or Bombardments etc., just like how SLAs are in heroic class trees.

I respectfully disagree with the notion that Epic Destinies do not define or redefine a character's playstyle. Since their introduction, Destinies have provided players with the flexibility to expand their character's playstyle. Asking if a L20 Barb should have access to powerful spells is comparable to complaining that casters have access to expanded crit range--the choices made prior to Epic Destinies will impact how powerful these spells or melee abilities are.

It's undeniable that Destinies offer the potential to significantly influence a character's capabilities, including healing, mobility, spellcasting, and more. I incorporate Destinies into my character planning, and understanding that they offer avenues to adapt and evolve my character's role influences the choices I make for levels 1-20. The ability to switch between different Destiny setups allows for my characters to change roles based on the situation.

While I appreciate differences of opinions on how strong Epic Destinies should be, suggesting they "aren't meant to define or redefine" is not accurate.

 

[The Narc]

DCS and thats all that matters now so boring

This is the true statement, when all that matters is DC’s, then it is to create a culture that is desperate to get all the loot/advancement required to raise the DC’s on their character.

This allows them to encourage chest rerolls/astral shard auction house/and most importantly hitting the hamster TR wheel as hard as possible. All of these lead to either astral shard purchase or the purchase of ottos boxes.

If you want this to truly backfire on the devs the only way to respond is to not spend a single penny on any of these and keep posting about it.

I definitely have seen a drop in damage but it doesnt change anything for me other than making the game more of a slower grinding tortoise race, atleast for lower reaper skulls and down.

I have yet to engage in running any R6 or higher since the update but i could imagine with the reaper scaling that the revisions to epic destinies make them all but useless.

 

[DBZ]

I have no fail dcs in sharn gear i want to be exicited to buy new gear

Gaming and marketing no dopamine rush gamers will go elsewhere

Instakills never got touched there as strong as ever

 

[The Narc]

I have no fail dcs in sharn gear i want to be exicited to buy new gear

Gaming and marketing no dopamine rush gamers will go elsewhere

Instakills never got touched there as strong as ever

Lol I hear they might be speculating on giving ALL mobs in legendary deathblock.

Edited to add ALL

 

[DBZ]

Champs have always had it

 

[PraetorPlato]

DC casters are (as always) awesome in parties, useless for soloing because of dooms, bosses, champs, and other DW. This feels like a very fair balance point for them.

 

[Lazuli]

Instakills never got touched there as strong as ever

False, they have not been affected in this path, but they have been affected multiple times. The last change of the old EDs brought a ninja nerf to (un)death to death, limiting it to four targets (before there were more), although the devs tried to disguise the nerf as a tooltip clarification (it wasn't). The introduction of the champions themselves was a huge nerf to IK, since now it is inevitable that in a group of trash there will be several mobs immune to IK.

IK is a very outdated style, stop promoting it as the eighth wonder of the world, please. You cannot finish a single quest from high heroics only with IK.

 

[DBZ]

You can dbf in r10 or you can just frog those are the current ed options never said they were good options

 

[DBZ]

Power word kill and frog will kill r10 trash in 1 shot epic strikes will not

 

[PraetorPlato]

I do think it's probably a good thing that epic strikes don't completely outclass heroic spells, because that leads to the situation where a single good AoE epic strike (DB) means that nuker meta focuses nearly entirely on single target. Nobody played acid sorc despite acid well being one of the best spells in the game because DB just filled its role, and fire sorc was considered far worse than cold sorc because its 7-9th level spells are all AoE, which didn't complement dragon breath well. Turning down dragon breath gives all classes access to some AoE without devaluing AoE 9ths. With that said, I think caster damage overall is too low in high skulls, and probably should be given back—if this update came with a reversion of the high reaper damage nerf, things would be just about perfect IMO. The high reaper adjustment was a hacky patch that came with weird consequences for imbue builds; now that caster AoE has been turned down quite a bit, it should be safe to revert.

 

[erethizon1]

Having enjoyed playing my level 32 Fiend Warlock for over a year, I can't help but agree that caster Epic Strikes are underwhelming and anti-fun.

Previously, my Warlock was a blast to play (pun intended), dealing with trash mobs easily enough in high reaper and providing crowd control. However, since the update, trying out various Epic Strikes has left me feeling disheartened. The once-fun gameplay has now become lackluster.

While I understood the need for adjustments, the overreaching nerf to Dragon Breath was particularly disappointing. What's worse is the absence of compelling alternatives. The disparity in damage output between my regular Warlock blasts and these supposedly epic abilities is barely noticeable. It isn't worth the extra button click, and I find myself just attacking with my Warlock blast.

Even with lowered expectations, the updated scaling surpassed my worst fears for DPS casters.

RIP my Warlock. I plan to TR.

I am in the same boat. All this update did was take me from having an epic strike I use to having no epic strike at all. Perhaps, instead of picking gaping maw at 26 to double my dragon breath damage, I'll pick energy vortex or burst so when I'm doing a favor run on a low level quest everything around me will just drop dead without my needed to stop to attack. That is the only use case I can see for how any epic strike will now be useful for my character.

 

[The Narc]

Power word kill and frog will kill r10 trash in 1 shot epic strikes will not

But ultimately none of this is relative to the original post which is about the newly revised epic strikes and there current value level. Again my opinion in the original post is that the damage/effectiveness has decreased enough to make it feel just a little more sloggy in R4 and down. Really it is no different than adding a huge chunk of hit points to all the mobs, just a different way of producing the same effect.

Note: if you compare the speed at which you could run epic/legendary content when the first epic destiny refresh came out and now, they have been slowly tweaking and changing it to make progress slower and slower(whether this is for balance or to encourage pay to win). I mean after the original epic destiny refresh you could power zerg a level 20 toon in saltmarsh legendary elite, that is how they got the first refresh past everyone without complaint.

Really I am shocked with all the brain power of all the players in this game that people dont see right through the tactics that have been going on and call a spade a spade. Either way you have to decide whether you wish to go on playing the game or not, find your happy spot.

 

[DBZ]

Melees doing 1.2 million dps crits ah you think there slowing down 1 dc bot with 5 ranged or melee will stomp anything you want

 

[erethizon1]

I actually dont want EDs to be so Epic that they make Heroic stuff obsolete, and likewise dont want Legendary abilities that make Epic obsolete

The game should start to grow more horizontally past 20, not purely vertically. Give us more to do, not just better ways to do the one thing we already do.

That is what dragon's breath did for my warlock. My warlock had no instant DPS spells because Warlocks get a terrible spell list. Dragon's breath gave me one and now they made it so weak that my auto attack is better and there is no reason to use an epic strike.

 

[PraetorPlato]

But ultimately none of this is relative to the original post which is about the newly revised epic strikes and there current value level. Again my opinion in the original post is that the damage/effectiveness has decreased enough to make it feel just a little more sloggy in R4 and down. Really it is no different than adding a huge chunk of hit points to all the mobs, just a different way of producing the same effect.

Note: if you compare the speed at which you could run epic/legendary content when the first epic destiny refresh came out and now, they have been slowly tweaking and changing it to make progress slower and slower(whether this is for balance or to encourage pay to win). I mean after the original epic destiny refresh you could power zerg a level 20 toon in saltmarsh legendary elite, that is how they got the first refresh past everyone without complaint.

Really I am shocked with all the brain power of all the players in this game that people dont see right through the tactics that have been going on and call a spade a spade. Either way you have to decide whether you wish to go on playing the game or not, find your happy spot.

In my experience, legendary quest completion times have gotten steadily faster, not slower.

 

[Lazuli]

I do think it's probably a good thing that epic strikes don't completely outclass heroic spells, because that leads to the situation where a single good AoE epic strike (DB) means that nuker meta focuses nearly entirely on single target. Nobody played acid sorc despite acid well being one of the best spells in the game because DB just filled its role, and fire sorc was considered far worse than cold sorc because its 7-9th level spells are all AoE, which didn't complement dragon breath well. Turning down dragon breath gives all classes access to some AoE without devaluing AoE 9ths. With that said, I think caster damage overall is too low in high skulls, and probably should be given back—if this update came with a reversion of the high reaper damage nerf, things would be just about perfect IMO. The high reaper adjustment was a hacky patch that came with weird consequences for imbue builds; now that caster AoE has been turned down quite a bit, it should be safe to revert.

please! Nobody played or will play acid sorc because acid doesn't have enough spells to make it a viable playstyle. DB is not to blame for the lack of acid sorcs, it is the lack of acid spells in the own class. Now it is even more unfeasible than before to play an acid sorc.

 

[FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted]

i find it funny how dragonbreath was nerfed by 67-75% depending on CL to 1d6+10 damage per level in an aoe every 12 seconds. effective dpm would be about 67.5 per CL (in an aoe) while the new "buffed" EA strike does effective dpm of 85. for reference, you are giving up ~20% single target dpm when using dragons breath yet it is aoe. even better is how bad the new dragonbreath is. good job ssg cutting breath by 67% and its still arguably best strike, shows how little the others were buffed...