Remove Time Sinks

CBDunk

Well-known member
Short form: Remove time consuming manual systems by just going to the end result. Examples; instead of manually creating Cannith essences let us buy them, eliminate repair, have near instant hp/sp regeneration in public areas, replace 'random generated' items with more coins and the ability to buy those items.

Long form: There are a number of systems in DDO that seem to exist SOLELY to consume player time on tasks that are, at best, tedious.

The purest example of this I can think of is the process for dissolving magic items to create Cannith essences. You buy dissolving materials with coins and then feed each item and a dissolver into a machine one at a time to get back Cannith essences and coins. The amount of coins received is less than what you would have gotten selling the same item to a vendor.

So, rather than this manual process that turns objects into essences... why couldn't we just use the faster process of selling items to vendors and then BUY Cannith essences? The end result is exactly the same... we lose objects and coins and get Cannith essences in exchange. We just no longer have to run to one of the handful of locations with the proper machine and spend hours manually feeding items to it one at a time.

Before anyone says 'realism'... the current system ISN'T it. Realistically, in an actual economy, House Cannith would purchase the most cost effective items for conversion en masse, have specialized automated processes for converting them to essences, and sell them (for a profit) at a lower end cost than what individuals could achieve on their own.

Other examples;
Repair: We convert player time and coins into undamaged items. Theoretically, some items could become so badly damaged that they can no longer be used, but there are rituals to delay or outright prevent that... which nobody bothers with because by the time it might be an issue they've moved on to a better item. Just give us fewer coins... or charge a 'maintenance fee' of coins/game hour or some such to reflect the cost of keeping our equipment repaired.

HP/SP regen: Once upon a time there was this idea that players would gather and socialize in taverns because they had to go there to get HP/SP back more quickly. Never worked. People would just do other things while waiting for their characters to recover. Now most run to their airship to get the super fast regen. Which is only even needed after being in a wilderness zone for a while or a failed quest. Why? Why make us NOT play the game for some period of time? Just make it so you get to a public area, you get HP/SP back near instantly. If you must, charge another fee to reflect the cost of the various 'tavern only' food and drink items that are almost never actually used.

Random loot: In theory, players find random generated loot in dungeons and sell the stuff they don't want... which can then be bought by other players. In practice, the systems around this are SO unbelievably tedious that no one uses them. Instead of taking the extra time to seek out pawnbrokers for better prices, people sell to vendors and the loot is 'destroyed'. Likewise, instead of going to pawnbrokers spread all over the world and looking through their inventories one item at a time people just do not bother. So... we have a system that gives players a lot of junk they don't want and then they spend time to convert that junk into coins. In theory, other players are supposed to be able to convert coins into items of the same type that they DO want. Why not just remove all the randomly generated gear (i.e. '+3 Entropic Dagger of Silliness') from rewards, give us correspondingly more coins, and let us BUY items of that kind from vendors? Player time saved. System actually does what it was supposed to.

Et cetera. There are MANY systems in DDO like this that consume a great deal of time for little purpose. What are some that you'd like to see eliminated / simplified?
 
Upvote 3

Fisto Mk I

Well-known member
So, rather than this manual process that turns objects into essences... why couldn't we just use the faster process of selling items to vendors and then BUY Cannith essences? The end result is exactly the same... we lose objects and coins and get Cannith essences in exchange. We just no longer have to run to one of the handful of locations with the proper machine and spend hours manually feeding items to it one at a time.
Because your way not provide crafting leveling for dissolution stuff.
 

CBDunk

Well-known member
Because your way not provide crafting leveling for dissolution stuff.

Right... I had forgotten that you get 1 to 5 crafting XP per item.

I think most people would be fine giving up that nominal XP benefit in exchange for not having to do the process manually. Nobody is getting to the ~650,000 crafting XP needed for max crafting level by dissolving 130,000+ items. Even for the low levels, you'd spend longer getting to 5th level by dissolving items than you would getting to 50th by crafting shards.

If it were really a concern... add a similarly nominal amount of XP to disjoining items to create crafting blanks.
 

hit_fido

Waiting for Monster Manual X...
What are some that you'd like to see eliminated / simplified?

It would save me a lot of time if the quest givers had an extra option, "Complete quest immediately", which would grant me the quest XP right away. Paired with your other good suggestions, this would also allot a proportionate amount of platinum instead of all those silly random items. On the other hand platinum itself is kind of a time sink so we could increase efficiency even more if after choosing "Complete quest immediately" the quest giver presented a new dialogue that let me select and acquire any named item in the game, too.
 

Onyxia2016

Well-known member
As for the crafting, I still do it even though it is not meta anymore. As @The Narc mentioned a deconstruct all would be nice, like a repair all is currently. I would actually like to see some new life breathed into the crafting system personally.

Who knows maybe one day I can craft a mechanical horse to got with my mechanical doggo.
 

CBDunk

Well-known member
It would save me a lot of time if the quest givers had an extra option, "Complete quest immediately", which would grant me the quest XP right away.

Personally, I think there is a vast difference between time spent doing quests and time spent clicking the same few buttons over and over and over again, sitting in a tavern waiting for health to regen, or my other examples.

If you don't then hey... maybe you could provide a service. People bring you their junk items and you spend hours every day converting them into Cannith essences to return to the people. Just as fun as doing quests, right?
 

Dandonk

This is not the title you're looking for
Unskippable dialogue/monologue... I used to like Elminster, but DDO has ruined him for me...

EDIT: I mean, story, sure. But when doing it time number 127, I -know- the story by now. Please, no more.
 
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CBDunk

Well-known member
I was trying to keep as close to existing systems as possible, but yes being able to select a group of items and click a 'Convert All' button would be one step less than doing the same with 'Sell All' and then buying the essences.

Agree on skipping NPC commentary as well. It is usually fine when they are talking and you can just leave, but there are a bunch of quests where you have to sit there waiting for them to finish prattling on before you can do anything else.
 

The Narc

Well-known member
I was trying to keep as close to existing systems as possible, but yes being able to select a group of items and click a 'Convert All' button would be one step less than doing the same with 'Sell All' and then buying the essences.

Agree on skipping NPC commentary as well. It is usually fine when they are talking and you can just leave, but there are a bunch of quests where you have to sit there waiting for them to finish prattling on before you can do anything else.
They did well to offer this option in amber temple, it should be a model for all future quests with long dialogues and should also on community request be added to certain other older quests. Obviously whoever designed a small problem knew that everyone would want a skip dialogue option for brawnpits, good job on that one too.
 

l_remmie

Well-known member
Having no time sinks is just as bad game design as having a million elminster npc's. Good games have a good balance between action gameplay roleplay and maintenance. DDO has a bit too much game maintenance, we all hate the TR cache every new life.
However just removing whatever isn't fast enough for you will totally destroy the game.
 

hit_fido

Waiting for Monster Manual X...
Personally, I think there is a vast difference between time spent doing quests and time spent clicking the same few buttons over and over and over again, sitting in a tavern waiting for health to regen, or my other examples.

If you don't then hey... maybe you could provide a service. People bring you their junk items and you spend hours every day converting them into Cannith essences to return to the people. Just as fun as doing quests, right?
Doing quests is largely a process of clicking the same few buttons over and over again. Deconstructing my own stuff wasn't a significant time sink for me anymore than selling stuff at a vendor. The idea of removing random item rewards just to streamline the process of turning them into something else isn't going anywhere. Entering a reaper quest already heals you to full so I guess if SSG wanted to enact that same mechanic for non reaper quests it would be more consistent, but at this point most characters can self heal anyway, it's really not something worth expending development time on.

People are leveling up so fast in this game right now, none of these things have any kind of really significant time sink effect, these are very minor steps and there's a point where you go too far in tearing out all the little atmospheric or thematic ideas that help make an MMO feel like an MMO. You also end up removing some degree of player decision making - do I sell this item, do I auction it, is it one of those rare random gen items that are actually interesting to me (double slots, unusual material, etc). If it's all just rendered as platinum well I guess that streamlines the game but it also makes it more boring.

The number one thing that "wastes time" in this game is chest ransack. If you don't find the item you're grinding for then you're spending the next week waiting on that. Maybe you have some other things to do but if it's an important item you think you need and that is your primary goal in terms of character progress then chest ransack is effectively a week long pause on being able to apply effort toward the progress you want. This dwarfs any of these other minor game mechanics where you're periodically clicking a button to trade items or ingredients.
 

saekee

long live ROGUE
/signed

these are vestiges of bygone eras. So much of life is full of mediocrity which we accept out of habit.

Here are more:
1) I suggested this to Tonquin:
put the airship pilot hanging out just outside the entrances to guild ships. Give them the same dialogue as always. Lore: They agree to take you to the destination, so you enter together and he/she flies you there. There is no reason to have to go up and have a visual of running along the deck of the guild ship.

This will eliminate 1) a loading screen with you then appearing pointlessly on the ship 2) the time to go from the hatch door there up to the pilot. Saves time doing annoying repetitive stuff. I would even add ‘guild ship buffs’ to the dialogue dropdown as well.

Less load screens = less server resources


I would add also when one goes onto a guild ship top deck a second mini door that leads straight to the cargo bay. This saves clicking in the door to select ‘cargo bay.” Why do this? Because 99.99% of the time, people go to the cargo bay. Nothing is gained by adding click selections.

2) any time we have an NPC general-use dialogue that gives only 1 answer, for the most part, I would get rid of it. For example, you go to the bank. You click on the NPC. They actually give you a dialogue option. WHY?!? *** are we there? It is obvious--so get rid of this, click on them and automatically open up the bank windows.

3) teleport scroll locations--how much pointless time sink stuff happens because a now heavy-hub of activity and questing is not on that old scroll list? Sharn should be on there at the very least.

4) get rid of level trainers--we don't need all those toons sitting around as trainers. They are visual clutter and with ones selling augments, giving quests out etc they just add to the confusion. The devs already got rid of the need to go to a trainer for changing enhancements; let's just step it up to moving up a level as well. Same with epic trainer. They do nothing; there is no animation of you training; there is no 'time spent' as you train in some way or another; I do not see why they exist at all. This way we can level more efficiently when in a group too; no need to run off to House Deneith or somewhere before continuing.
The result of this would be to stimulate the art department folks to do something with the new space created by getting rid of all these useless trainers.
If anything, I would add special House Trainers to replace these ones in which you can 'work' with an NPC for a special temporary buff much like favor rewards and probably through favor. These are fun time sinks that are optional. Add a training dummy in House D. that is very strong, and attacking it for a while boosts your to hit; in House J have a hospital area--spend time tossing heals and you get a heal skill boost, etc. Fun time sinks, not dumb repetitive stuff.

The devs have done wonderful things to help get rid of time sinks. Vets here will remember how we used to run all around a guild ship to get ship buffs...and they did not last that long and expired on death. The time sink there was so awful; so glad that was turned into a one-click buff bar. To change enhancements (as I mentioned) we used to need to go to a trainer. If I were to make ViP more attractive, I would add more anti-time sink things just for ViPs also.
 

Mand O'Lin

Singer of Songs Drinker of Drinks
It would be great if the server would track my quest/ raid time to completion vs. difficulty level. Then let me bring up a list of completed quests/ raids & difficulties. I select the what I want to run, my client becomes inactive for the required time (allowing me to shower, make coffee, catch up on Battlebots, etc.) at the end of which I receive the quest and NPC rewards. That would save me a whole lot of my time!
 

CBDunk

Well-known member
The devs have done wonderful things to help get rid of time sinks. Vets here will remember how we used to run all around a guild ship to get ship buffs...and they did not last that long and expired on death. The time sink there was so awful; so glad that was turned into a one-click buff bar. To change enhancements (as I mentioned) we used to need to go to a trainer.

Exactly. There have been dozens of QoL improvements over the years. Obsolete systems have been removed wholesale. I'm just saying it has been a while and there is a lot more that could be done along these lines.

I agree completely with your items 2-4. Item 1 would be fine, but is a little different for me. For example, I never go to the cargo hold... because it is empty. Our guild has a fully loaded Kraken, but there are only a handful of us active so we don't bother with the temporary facilities. That said, extra door wouldn't hurt. Likewise, I'd be fine with a pilot next to airship access points (or just the access point itself giving you a destination list), but dunno if that would be extra coding to associate the same NPC with destinations available to different guilds.
 

CBDunk

Well-known member
It would be great if the server would track my quest/ raid time to completion vs. difficulty level. Then let me bring up a list of completed quests/ raids & difficulties. I select the what I want to run, my client becomes inactive for the required time (allowing me to shower, make coffee, catch up on Battlebots, etc.) at the end of which I receive the quest and NPC rewards. That would save me a whole lot of my time!

Again, since you suggest it is the same thing... I invite you to volunteer to create essences, perform repairs, buy and sell items, et cetera for everyone on your server rather than doing that boring questing stuff.
 

Mand O'Lin

Singer of Songs Drinker of Drinks
Again, since you suggest it is the same thing... I invite you to volunteer to create essences, perform repairs, buy and sell items, et cetera for everyone on your server rather than doing that boring questing stuff.
Nope. If you want the benefits, you do the work. I, for one, have no desire to remove the immersion in the name of saving game time.
 

CBDunk

Well-known member
Nope. If you want the benefits, you do the work. I, for one, have no desire to remove the immersion in the name of saving game time.

Wow. Ok, I had no idea anyone found sitting around waiting for their spell points to recover or clicking to manually convert hundreds of items to essences to be so 'immersing'.

Glad you enjoy.... that.

However, I still suspect that you are vastly in the minority and that almost all of us come here to do quests, raids, wilderness zones, and other 'adventuring' type content. Sure, there should be a 'world' around that... and for the most part DDO is fine there. I'm ok crafting shards and blanking items to bind the shards onto and all the rest of the multiple and convoluted crafting systems... just think that manually dissolving items for essences one at a time is overkill.

Hey, maybe they could add an optional 'immersion' mode where you could spend 1/3 of every game session with your character unmoving due to sleep, have to stop every few hours to cook and eat a meal, get hair cuts, take baths, actually inspect weapons and armor for damage and click on the worn parts to fix them... really let you 'enjoy' the immersion. And, on the flip side, when turned off the rest of us could just do boring quests and stuff w/o all those great 'benefits'.
 

Mand O'Lin

Singer of Songs Drinker of Drinks
Wow. Ok, I had no idea anyone found sitting around waiting for their spell points to recover or clicking to manually convert hundreds of items to essences to be so 'immersing'.

Glad you enjoy.... that.

However, I still suspect that you are vastly in the minority and that almost all of us come here to do quests, raids, wilderness zones, and other 'adventuring' type content. Sure, there should be a 'world' around that... and for the most part DDO is fine there. I'm ok crafting shards and blanking items to bind the shards onto and all the rest of the multiple and convoluted crafting systems... just think that manually dissolving items for essences one at a time is overkill.

Hey, maybe they could add an optional 'immersion' mode where you could spend 1/3 of every game session with your character unmoving due to sleep, have to stop every few hours to cook and eat a meal, get hair cuts, take baths, actually inspect weapons and armor for damage and click on the worn parts to fix them... really let you 'enjoy' the immersion. And, on the flip side, when turned off the rest of us could just do boring quests and stuff w/o all those great 'benefits'.
Absolutely the best part of the game. Gives me something to do between "quests, raids, wilderness zones, and other 'adventuring' type content." It is too bad your ADHD makes it difficult for you to enjoy the little things in life. Perhaps you should consider switching to Sanka. :)

I have played games with some of those immersion features... just part of the game. It is too bad you are so limited in your view of what this game should entail. If it is so damnable, maybe you should look elsewhere, or create your own game without all those pesky immersion details. It really doesn't matter to me.
 
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