Should Cordovan host Devs on a livestream to discuss how this VIP Loyalty Program came to be?

[Warsaga]

Devs, a lot of thought and hours must have gone into developing this new vip program - its structure, rewards, etc. Some of us do not quite see the vision. You, yes you, can help us get on board. You don't even have to take questions. I think it'll be enlightening if one or more of you, presumably those who had the most input, get on camera or audio and go into depth from inception to the final draft of this new program. Please explain to us, among other things:

Why the quasi-battlepass like format was chosen?
Why the specific rewards for each month were chosen and why they were placed at the intervals they were?
How often and in what manner were player feedback and requests consulted alongside original ideas?
When nearing the finished product, what sample size of players were used to to gage negative/positive reception of the proposed plan?

Please describe to us what your long term expectations and goals are for a successful program. Is success of the new program contingent on how many players subscribe or resubscribe over a period of time? Maintain their subscription to a certain month threshold? How will you gage player satisfaction with the program? Would it be based on the amount of initial and new subscriptions once the program goes live next month?

Theres likely much more that could be asked and addressed in this format. The gist is to help us players understand all the perspectives that went into the development of this program.

 

[Drunken.dx]

I'd literally pay for an insight into way of thinking of whoever thought this... Joke... Will attract more people to sub.

 

[Falkor]

No. What I'd like to see is Sev step up and do an interview like his LOTRO counterpart did.

 

[TavernBrawler]

It is not the devs we want to hear - It is Sev the Original Producer and Tolero the Invisible Producer. Devs are just code-m who code what they are told.

 

[Svirfneblin]

Yes, please show us that dart board.

 

[Spook]

No. What I'd like to see is Sev step up and do an interview like his LOTRO counterpart did.

Sev is the executive producer for both games. I think you mean Tolero.

 

[Col Kurtz]

leave the poor staff alone, they get bashed enough in the forum

 

[Ostwind-Cannith]

I'd just rather have them go back to the drawing board than waste time talking about this turd

 

[Smelt]

I'd like to know why the two games got such different programmes. Lotro got Qol and DDO got junk that you can either get through other means or that has too many hoops and down right disqualifies military personnel and others that have major life events happen, even if they keep up their subscription. The rewards are tragic enough as it is without having it so that if you don't log in every month and speak to the vender you can't get all the rewards. So if you are in the military and get sent on deployment for 6 months too bad no mount or greater bag for you. If you are hospitalised for a month too bad no mount for you.

I am a VIP and have been for years, and I've played since 2006 so before the game was F2P and this new programme isn't going to attract any new VIP's at all. In fact it's making me think about dropping my sub. I'm all for games giving an incentive to players to pay a monthly sub while also allowing others to play for free. What I don't like is being told that I need to pay monthly fee and jump through several other hoops to get my full benefits from paying that monthly fee.

I get that people like and want different things. Some people love all the cosmetics, some people throw them away as soon as they get them. Some people love cosmetic pets, others never use them. Some people spend hours and hours crafting the perfect thing for that slot that isn't taken up by some essential other thing, while some people have never crafted a single item in the entire game. That being said, it goes without saying that you can't make everyone happy with an incentive programme. So, it appears, you've gone the other way and tried to annoy everybody instead by offering things that are either available by other means, bonuses that are so minute they are undetectable ( I'm looking at you month 9) and/or the things that unique having a long wait to receive. Like the mount, 12 months before you get it ( assuming you remembered to claim all the other rewards) even if you paid for a 12 month sub in a single payment.

If you are insisting on these rewards with this format the least you can do is change it so you get what you pay for when you pay for it. So if pay monthly you get the rewards monthly, but if you pay 3 monthly you get 3 months of rewards when you make your payment and so on. Meaning those players that pay a 12 monthly single payment should get all the rewards immediately with one visit to the vender. You don't go to Macdonald's and buy a big Mac meal and get told to come back next month for the fries and the month after for your drink do you?

 

[Spook]

I'd like to know why the two games got such different programmes.

This ones easy. On the LOTRO side there is better communication with its players. When SSG won studio of the year 2023 from MassivelyOP I nearly choked on my coffee until I read the praise which was nearly all on the LOTRO side.

Andrew Ross: Orna’s Northern Forge. They really listen to their players,

Carlo Lacsina: Standing Stone Games. Hey man, their name makes me giggle. That’s reason 0 right there fam. Also, they’re doing a great job with Lord of the Rings Online. Considering how other game and TV studios have made some pretty mediocre products lately with the IP, I’m glad to see someone getting it right.

 

[Owlbear]

I doubt it will be interesting to watch... Seeing the result I don't think there was that much time and thought into the Loyalty System to be honest. They clearly didn't think too much on how certain things are implemented. Besides the story of the loss of the employee who worked on it which was difficult for the team. I think there are way more interesting topics to talk about during a dev stream.

 

[Ped Xing]

LOL! I'd love to be a fly on the wall if Cordo were to propose this!
"Hey guys, the player base wants to hear your thinking on VIP rewards"
"Isn't there a 20 page long thread screaming for our heads on the main page?"
LOLOLOLOLOL

 

[mbartol]

Rather than having to talk to an NPC each month, a token (like anniversary tokens) could drop in your inventory on the 1st of each month. If your account is VIP, you qualify and get the token. This way you receive the advertised benefits of VIP that you paid for, even if you can’t log in.

Unfortunately, it does add inventory clutter

 

[Dom]

Don't need to have an interview to watch an hour of excuses. Instead, they should update the VIP incentive.

 

[Blaster]

As much as I like Cordovan, no he should not host a livestream with one of the devs or Tolero or Severlin. He is SSG community management / public relations, and he's more prone to skewer things in his hosting of these streams with SSG employees in a positive way that sometimes avoids the frustrations that players feel in order to keep the stream "positive".

Now there's nothing wrong with that, you do not have to be combative with your guest, but I feel like you get more of a PR spin when you do things this way. What I would rather see is something LOTRO lead systems dev Orion has done of late.

Orion went on a non-SSG employee stream and did a three-hour interview, wherein he was extremely open, honest, and willing to take responsibility for not only the things he and his team has done in LOTRO since his return two years ago, but also for what had come before him during the previous leadership's tenure. The streamer, Bludborn, wasn't hammering him about stuff or demanding answers, but brought up player concerns and let Orion address them and be open-ended with his answers. This lead to a really great conversation that provided a lot of honest insight that you just don't get in Cordovan's streams with DDO devs.

The next thing is, after that livestream, Orion saw conserns that had come up by the LOTRO commuity about some of what he said in his interview with Bludborn, and thus did a one-hour solo stream addressing those concerns. Orion didn't have to do this, but instead saw what was going on, and rather than getting defensive or salty about things and hide away, he addressed them in a calm, open fashion. (Some people could learn from his example.)

Links to both the three-hour Bludborn interview and Orion's one-hour follow-up stream are below.

 

[nix]

Devs, a lot of thought and hours must have gone into developing this new vip program - its structure, rewards, etc. Some of us do not quite see the vision. You, yes you, can help us get on board. You don't even have to take questions. I think it'll be enlightening if one or more of you, presumably those who had the most input, get on camera or audio and go into depth from inception to the final draft of this new program. Please explain to us, among other things:

Why the quasi-battlepass like format was chosen?
Why the specific rewards for each month were chosen and why they were placed at the intervals they were?
How often and in what manner were player feedback and requests consulted alongside original ideas?
When nearing the finished product, what sample size of players were used to to gage negative/positive reception of the proposed plan?

Please describe to us what your long term expectations and goals are for a successful program. Is success of the new program contingent on how many players subscribe or resubscribe over a period of time? Maintain their subscription to a certain month threshold? How will you gage player satisfaction with the program? Would it be based on the amount of initial and new subscriptions once the program goes live next month?

Theres likely much more that could be asked and addressed in this format. The gist is to help us players understand all the perspectives that went into the development of this program.

Can't help but feel that the devs are not the decision makers here ... look towards middle/upper manglement^Hmanagement for those shakers.

 

[Blunt Hackett]

I don't think discussion will make it any more palatable. I think what should help is adding more to the VIP program itself. The loyalty rewards are mostly underwhelming, and alone they're just terrible marketing because they come nowhere near returning the lost value to the VIP program. But if they were just something to sweeten a good deal, they wouldn't be bad, though some revision would certainly help either way.

 

[Falkor]

Blaster knows what's up. LOTRO side of things has a lot more going for them in regards to communication, responsiveness and respecting the players by actually listening. And, they have the humility and power that comes from admitting they make mistakes. That's genuine leadership. I can't imagine anyone on the DDO side ever admitting they made a mistake.

Orion raised the bar for accountability. I'm really impressed and respect his leadership style. That's the kind of person who builds trust with the community. LOTRO will be around for a long time with that kind of leadership and vision.

People make mistakes. Own it and move forward, having learned and adapted.

I'm honestly interested in playing LOTRO now that I've seen how they manage the game and community. In DDO, I just don't enjoy the grind anymore, and have some end game characters for raiding and when the level cap raises to play new content. I'm bored with DDO, and LOTRO looks interesting. I'd also be more inclined to purchase their VIP package because it has actual value.

I wonder if they listened to player feedback about VIP perks, and if they took suggestions from the playerbase and integrated them?

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around years of DDO player feedback with ad-naseum discussions about VIP benefits ... and not-a-single-player-suggestion being integrated. That doesn't inspire confidence. It only confirms my long-held notion that DDO team just doesn't listen to the player base, nor cares to.

And someone said somewhere that SSG is great at monetization ... *chuckle-snort* ... and other tall tales.

 

[Elminster]

Blaster knows what's up. LOTRO side of things has a lot more going for them in regards to communication, responsiveness and respecting the players by actually listening. And, they have the humility and power that comes from admitting they make mistakes. That's genuine leadership. I can't imagine anyone on the DDO side ever admitting they made a mistake.

Orion raised the bar for accountability. I'm really impressed and respect his leadership style. That's the kind of person who builds trust with the community. LOTRO will be around for a long time with that kind of leadership and vision.

People make mistakes. Own it and move forward, having learned and adapted.

I'm honestly interested in playing LOTRO now that I've seen how they manage the game and community. In DDO, I just don't enjoy the grind anymore, and have some end game characters for raiding and when the level cap raises to play new content. I'm bored with DDO, and LOTRO looks interesting. I'd also be more inclined to purchase their VIP package because it has actual value.

I wonder if they listened to player feedback about VIP perks, and if they took suggestions from the playerbase and integrated them?

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around years of DDO player feedback with ad-naseum discussions about VIP benefits ... and not-a-single-player-suggestion being integrated. That doesn't inspire confidence. It only confirms my long-held notion that DDO team just doesn't listen to the player base, nor cares to.

And someone said somewhere that SSG is great at monetization ... *chuckle-snort* ... and other tall tales.

The DDO side/upper management treats us as second-class citizens because they know they can get away with it. Proof: Compare the VIP rewards for us and LOTRO.

They don't care. They know they have a hardcore group of players who can't let go of the game and who overall makes up a much lesser share of the total revenue that SSG takes in.

It's a recipe for a used & abused player base.

 

[Falkor]

No, Elminster ... its not like that.

While it is frustrating to communicate with 'leadership' and be discounted and ignored, they simply have a different approach to dealing with people and running the game than LOTRO side. It is really basic, they just have different relationship styles .. and that works for some people, and not for others.

I can respect that DDO team has their leadership style and relational approaches. Their approaches don't work for me, and it's why I refuse to give them $$$. They've also made it clear that we should just accept how things are, to shut up or not play. So, I don't pay, I rarely communicate, and I play less and less. I'm doing exactly what DDO team has told me to do.

So to see Orion offering those videos ... that gives me hope because the differences in leadership style between the two teams are now blatantly obvious.

And considering that LOTRO team is getting accolades and rewards for their customer service and game, while DDO team is not, is revealing.

That's an 'in-house' challenge. And it's the only vector where change can happen.

The bar has been raised. I'd like to see DDO team step up and receive awards. Will they do what it takes?

The real question for DDO team is ... what are you going to do about this?