So there's like a zillion people playing BG3 . . .

Kimbere

Well-known member
We only need like 10k for this game to be great again.
Did you mean we only need like 10k for this game to lag so badly it's unplayable again? Don't get me wrong, the theory is great.

I suspect the reality of it would be something far less than great thanks to the mountains of technical debt that Turbine and SSG have piled up through years of neglect and poor practices.

When each HC season starts, it lags like a mo'fo during the first week or two and that's with ~2k ungeared, first-life toons.

The lag created by dropping an extra 1.5k active players on each live server with the existing multipletionist denizens would be an unmitigated disaster of a new player experience. The recent great Ghallanda exodus to Orien noticeably upped the lag according to the natives. If I remember correctly, that only increased Orien's average hourly active player count by 100ish.

I am pretty sure DDO has about 500,000 players.
I am pretty sure you just made that number up.

That or you're talking about some criteria of players measurement that has no bearing to a discussion about active players. It's pretty obvious the OP was talking about active players. Not accounts that have been inactive for years or since the beginning of time even.

Yes. Lag has caused more guildies to permanently ragequit the game than anything else I know of over the years.
pPqyNYo.png
 

Wizard

Well-known member
Answer: it can't possibly be done. DDO is too expensive, too grindy, and too poorly-managed to attract new players.
Well...they could reduce the price of content.

Too grindy, only if you make it that way. You don't need pastlives, lots of RP, and the best raid gear and 10slot senti weapon etc. for lower difficulties. And with more new players those difficutlies would get posted in LFM more often.

Better management is needed to for sure.
 

TeamScorpioRI

Well-known member
I think a big step would be updating the graphics and UI in DDO. The base game is great, its just looking a little old now. The UI especially needs a redo. It should be able to support 4k and higher. New skins and textures in the game to get everything looking fresh.

Example.. Dragonborn.

BG3:
4173234-baldurs-gate-3-dragonborn-guide-.jpg


Dragonborn in DDO:
dd1.jpg
 

erousted8

Well-known member
Too grindy, only if you make it that way. You don't need pastlives, lots of RP, and the best raid gear and 10slot senti weapon etc. for lower difficulties. And with more new players those difficutlies would get posted in LFM more often.

You don't "need" those things, but they are also the only things to obtain. If you aren't working towards at least one of those things, what are you doing?

People don't play MMOs to simply exist inside of them.
 

GrayJedi AntiProPaladin

Well-known member

I could Not have my panther pet dance while my character is on the dancing panther mount :-(
if my panther mount is dancing, then I can't get pets to dance; but if I get the pet to dance first (it stops after few seconds) and then I can get my character and panther to dance, but they don't both continue dancing together
:cry:
tried it on several different server worlds

(hrmmmm now I'm Not sure why I posted on this particular thread....)
 

Genkiba

Well-known member
You don't "need" those things, but they are also the only things to obtain. If you aren't working towards at least one of those things, what are you doing?

People don't play MMOs to simply exist inside of them.
There's a 14-page thread that has at least one person who wants that.
 

Blunt Hackett

Well-known member
I think there will be some that go looking for more D&D video games. That's why I came the first time and why I returned. But I think that is more about retaining those who wander over here. I suppose some carefully placed ads could draw more of that group, but you would need to convince them to try out an MMO when they have choices like Solasta, Pathfinder, Pillars of Eternity, and all of the enhanced editions of the games from the original Baldur's Gate era. These are all far closer to BG3 than DDO is.

If they are drawn to BG3's game design, monetization, graphics, AAA status, etc., they have no reason to be interested in DDO.
 
You don’t. Bg3 is like their other game divinity which I thought was super bad. The only people you would get to come to ddo are never winter nights players. Ddo is a complex grinding game, where one mistake wipes you, or one mistake means you have to level to 20 to remake your character.

Bg3 is just a casual story progression game, where you could make any mistakes and still win. Not to mention ddo is a cash shop expensive game. It costs like 150 for the game, 15 a month, and like 150 for the exp, stat, and skill tomes. You aren’t gonna get people who think 60 bucks is a lot for a game, which is the full game, to spend 500 bucks for ddo.
About the bolded part. I'm not sure what you mean by "casual" or "winning", because peoples' definitions differ on those terms, but if you mean combat, you obviously haven't done any combat in that game. The enemies are really using their skills, environment etc. intelligently to their advantage and to the players' disadvantage, and it's actually vice versa: Any mistake you make, even some unlucky bad rolls, can turn the tide against you pretty quickly and pretty heavily. Didn't notice the grease stain on the ground, and a goblin shot an arrow on a booze barrel next to a torch which lit everything up? Now your party is burning, concentration for Bless is broken and the enemy spell casters are next in initiative order? Oh, that seems bad.

Sure, there is a "story mode" if you choose to select it at the beginning, and there are many ways to avoid difficult encounters if you so choose, but that's ... D&D. The game isn't automatically casual, if it has well-established story progression (of which BG3 has many, actually); it can be very ruthless at times.

One more notion that's semi-relevant to this thread. A while back there was a discussion here along the lines of "BG3 vs. DDO", and there was this one poster who had the gall to tell me that "yes, even for you it's NOT BG3 vs. DDO", and their reasoning was because these are different types of games (MMO / nonMMO), and that I would be back here at some point anyway. Before that, I had tried to argue that it depends on the point of view, and, well, for about a month now, it has been exactly "BG3 vs. DDO" for me. I haven't logged in to DDO since starting the early access a bit before the launch date, and I trashed all my DDO goals, subs, progressions immediately. And I am still in the early stages of early access areas on my first proper play-through, of which there will be many...

So yeah, it really is a "x versus y" thing for people like me, who value other stuff than MMO/nonMMO, or free stuff from welcome back gifts etc. And there's no doubt I will at some point play DDO too ... but I will play Pool of Radiance on C64 emulator too, and I will go briefly back on other games as well, MMO or not. What I do know, is that BG3 has totally made me disinterested in other stuff altogether, or spending money on them. In other words it, effectively, has very much been a "x vs. y" thing in regard to DDO, Pool of Radiance, MS Minesweeper, you name it.
 

erousted8

Well-known member
There's a 14-page thread that has at least one person who wants that.

1 person does not an MMO make.

And yes, there are some MMOs that are great for "just existing" in. There's also other MMOs with what we call "lateral progression"(EG "stuff to do that is not running dungeons").

These are not DDO.

DDO offers nothing besides direct character power progression. Yeah you don't have to do that by earning reaper points. Yeah you don't have to do that by grinding past lives. That just leaves gear, which if you aren't running elite/R1 is going to take about as long as grinding the other two. But if you aren't doing any of those... what else are you doing?
 

Genkiba

Well-known member
1 person does not an MMO make.

And yes, there are some MMOs that are great for "just existing" in. There's also other MMOs with what we call "lateral progression"(EG "stuff to do that is not running dungeons").

These are not DDO.

DDO offers nothing besides direct character power progression. Yeah you don't have to do that by earning reaper points. Yeah you don't have to do that by grinding past lives. That just leaves gear, which if you aren't running elite/R1 is going to take about as long as grinding the other two. But if you aren't doing any of those... what else are you doing?
According to the guy, "Talking and using skills".
 

SiliconScout

Well-known member
BG3 is a one time fee and likely a one time play through for the story. I don’t see how that game can be compared to DDO. One and done, or for the super fans maybe a second or third play through.
Just going to drop that I am on my 4th play through. Very different each time, and the story as a whole has been different. Same beginning and more of less the same end but at the end of the day the middle can be entirely different with different options in the end. I probably have at least 3 more play throughs to try. Totally bad ass, power hungry mercenary type is going to be next up on my list leaning heavily into
using the mind flayer powers and going for Ceremorphosis if I can. Mind Flayers are the good guys they are just misunderstood!
 

erousted8

Well-known member
Just going to drop that I am on my 4th play through. Very different each time, and the story as a whole has been different. Same beginning and more of less the same end but at the end of the day the middle can be entirely different with different options in the end. I probably have at least 3 more play throughs to try. Totally bad ass, power hungry mercenary type is going to be next up on my list leaning heavily into
using the mind flayer powers and going for Ceremorphosis if I can. Mind Flayers are the good guys they are just misunderstood!

And do you forsee yourself continuing to replay it, and almost nothing else, 15-20 hours a week, for the next 17 years?
 
Just going to drop that I am on my 4th play through. Very different each time, and the story as a whole has been different. Same beginning and more of less the same end but at the end of the day the middle can be entirely different with different options in the end. I probably have at least 3 more play throughs to try. Totally bad ass, power hungry mercenary type is going to be next up on my list leaning heavily into
using the mind flayer powers and going for Ceremorphosis if I can. Mind Flayers are the good guys they are just misunderstood!
I'm not quite certain we share the definition of "play through". You might have played through the early access 3 times, but that doesn't mean that you're on your 4th play-through.
 

cocopufff

Well-known member
BG3 is a one time fee and likely a one time play through for the story. I don’t see how that game can be compared to DDO. One and done, or for the super fans maybe a second or third play through.
I genuinely don't understand this sentiment. BG3 has more replayability than, like... any game I've seen. The amount of content in it is staggering, and there's no way you can make it through all of it in one play through.

And do you forsee yourself continuing to replay it, and almost nothing else, 15-20 hours a week, for the next 17 years?
I'll be completely honest, there's no way on the face of the earth I would ever do this with any video game ever.
 

Lacci

Well-known member
How do we convert some of these folks to DDO? We only need like 10k for this game to be great again.
I think that´s a lost cause to be honest. DDO is a buggy, messy, outdated cashgrab, they would have to update it so it looks and feels like a game made in this century for new players to stay, especially now when they can compare it to BG3. I tried several times to introduce friends to this game, none of them stayed for more than one session.
I myself will probably also do it the other way around. As soon as I´m done with Jagged Alliance 3, I will pause DDO for a couple of weeks/months to play BG3...
 

paddymaxson

Well-known member
D&D has never been more popular than it is now (Chris Pine movie aside, even though I loved that movie). BG3 has already sold a million copies.

How do we convert some of these folks to DDO? We only need like 10k for this game to be great again.
Most of the things that are really, really good about BG3 are things that DDO is bad at, like being a complete game without a tonne of extra cost and allowing you a huge amount of flexibility in the way you deal with things. DDO has lots of build variety but how you use those builds is still "clear a path to the end of the area through DPS".

I think DDO will only appeal off the back of BG3 if you really want to play something else that's D&D/feels like a TTRPG and there's a lot of games better suited to that.

Personally I wouldn't want to inflict DDO on a new player, it's a very mean spirited game if you're new
 

LeslieWest_GuitarGod

Well-known member
D&D has never been more popular than it is now (Chris Pine movie aside, even though I loved that movie). BG3 has already sold a million copies.

How do we convert some of these folks to DDO? We only need like 10k for this game to be great again.
Im already on it! :)

Many of them have NO IDEA what a guild is, or have LONG forgotten. Its the TEAMWORK element of DDO that can win BG3 players over to DDO.

The age of the DDO graphics don't matter. They are good enough. Its the number of instanced dungeons here, the build variety, 3rd Ed rules, guilds, weapon/gear variety, combat, UI and team play that are DDOs incredible staying power.

So far those I recruited are sticking with BG3. But I expect DDO and Neverwinter to get some action, especially DDO.
 
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