Something seems off post U59

[eshadowbringer]

I would have prefer to have someone on the team post in this thread, however, in the hardcore sneak peak stream, Cordo did say that they are aware of these reports and of this thread, and are investigating. He also said that they are hoping we continue to do our thing and they will continue to pay attention to updates in this thread, because combat is so complex that any leads we can give or rule out will help them narrow it down.

Communicating that in only one place - in the middle of an hour long stream about hardcore - really doesn't bolster community trust imo, but from that it does seem that the extra damage we're experiencing is not intended.

I really have been trying to keep a positive outlook, striving to keep things optimistic if I can. However, it can be disheartening when a developer fails to engage in a conversation thread. A simple comment from them can make a significant difference, as it assures us that our voices have been acknowledged and recognized. Unfortunately, being ignored unnecessarily fosters a sense of animosity that could easily be avoided.

 

[Labuff]

I really have been trying to keep a positive outlook, striving to keep things optimistic if I can. However, it can be disheartening when a developer fails to engage in a conversation thread. A simple comment from them can make a significant difference, as it assures us that our voices have been acknowledged and recognized. Unfortunately, being ignored unnecessarily fosters a sense of animosity that could easily be avoided.

Really happy that more and more people are joining theirthoughts with my sentiments about this whole trainwreck of a update

 

[dogonovo]

I'm on a similar boat to eshadowbringer, trying to keep positive after returning to the game from a decade long break. I confess I never really liked some of the more extreme entitled bashing Devs got here, and gladly put on some lightly rose-tinted glasses when I came back, got me VIP and all. First hardcore season, so taking very slow and the HC vendor was broken? Meh, it's fine, though even I thought the time between its removal and the fix was maybe too long... The patch that brought improvements to lag worked like magic for me at first, and even after the second attempt I still have WAY better connection than in the weeks I was playing prior. All in all, great.

But I have to say, realizing that something is off with the damage I'm taking, being as math challenged as I am, then seeing other reports from those heroes/heroines who stare at pixels and crunch numbers for our benefit, while SSG has not given it a SINGLE mention, is leaving a very bitter taste. Saying "We are aware of the reports and thread, and keep doing what you are doing" does not even count as a mention, as it's akin to "we read our own forums and messages sometimes. Players, keep playing, proceed as if we weren't here in regards to this serious matter".

If it's a complicated issue, a simple one, an imagined one, smaller, bigger than perceived, you just can't say "we read our forums" and not even confirm or comment on the issue existing. I'm not bashing SSG or any Dev here, and I don't feel it is being entitled at all to expect a company to say at least "Yes, we hear you and the issue is X, and we'll do Y about it".

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Another thing I've noticed very recently (since 59.2) is that my Adrenaline hits don't seem to land consistently. Usually I'll tee up an Adrenaline and use Boulders Might...

Could be micro-lags but whatever the reason I've not noticed this before.

 

[The Narc]

I'm on a similar boat to eshadowbringer, trying to keep positive after returning to the game from a decade long break. I confess I never really liked some of the more extreme entitled bashing Devs got here, and gladly put on some lightly rose-tinted glasses when I came back, got me VIP and all. First hardcore season, so taking very slow and the HC vendor was broken? Meh, it's fine, though even I thought the time between its removal and the fix was maybe too long... The patch that brought improvements to lag worked like magic for me at first, and even after the second attempt I still have WAY better connection than in the weeks I was playing prior. All in all, great.

But I have to say, realizing that something is off with the damage I'm taking, being as math challenged as I am, then seeing other reports from those heroes/heroines who stare at pixels and crunch numbers for our benefit, while SSG has not given it a SINGLE mention, is leaving a very bitter taste. Saying "We are aware of the reports and thread, and keep doing what you are doing" does not even count as a mention, as it's akin to "we read our own forums and messages sometimes. Players, keep playing, proceed as if we weren't here in regards to this serious matter".

If it's a complicated issue, a simple one, an imagined one, smaller, bigger than perceived, you just can't say "we read our forums" and not even confirm or comment on the issue existing. I'm not bashing SSG or any Dev here, and I don't feel it is being entitled at all to expect a company to say at least "Yes, we hear you and the issue is X, and we'll do Y about it".

I agree, i do find it odd though that people only notice the bad decisions and implementation from the devs only when it impacts their particular gamestyle. There have been lots of decisions good and bad by the devs that have an effect on all kinds of players playstyles but go ignored because only some players are affected.

The word entitled is a very tricky word to use, it could be said that end gamers that are affected by this new doublestrike/fortification change shows how entitled they are that they should be able to run reaper 10 consistently without the imminent threat of death/quest failure on a high risk level, seeing as it is the highest level of challenge in the game.

There was a time when i despised grouping with AOE casters, not that i didnt enjoy grouping with them during hardcore, i mean i watched a very talented player destroy content with the previously overpowered favoured soul, also watch that same person destroy content with the bard sonic blast both of them pre nerf. That player will still destroy content with the lesser versions of these classes. What bothered me was being in groups with hack players that didnt have game skills but could still hit the i win this room button without any risk because the entire room was dead before they could be hit and they were upset when the change happened, that is definitely entitled.

My gamestyle has had to evolve over the changes they have implemented that affect the type of builds i like to play, it is just the way it is. But i do have sores spots from dev decisions like anyone else, cargo hold buffs and improved precise shot still being at the top of that list.

 

[T.O.]

Another thing I've noticed very recently (since 59.2) is that my Adrenaline hits don't seem to land consistently. Usually I'll tee up an Adrenaline and use Boulders Might...

Could be micro-lags but whatever the reason I've not noticed this before.

I have been thinking the same thing. Though it was before update 59. I don't think adrenaline is working at all. I was going to post this in the borked Barbs thread. I am not on my usual barb life. Since I am finishing up my last racials and doing pali for the class. I do have the first adrenaline but only 50% currently. I know it's not at full capacity but using it is just nothing. My last life was barb at cap and adrenaline was not working. Just before u59.

 

[Cordovan]

At the moment the main actionable feedback in this thread relates to whether enemies may or may not be bypassing player Fortification they were not previously, but so far nothing has turned up related to any change associated with it. If people have more information that could help lead to a result, please do let us know!

We know some of you want us to announce whether there is a bug or not, but we can't really make such a statement unless/until we have more information to base such a decision on. Could be nothing is different and it's a perception issue. Could be there's a bug that resulted in a change that so far has not been identified. Could be players were erroneously getting generous bypass and a halo to some other change made it start working correctly. The list of options goes on. At this moment there isn't really a concrete piece of evidence to make such a declaration as to whether there's a thing and what the nature of the thing is, or whether the feelings about "mobs hitting harder" actually relates to Fortification bypass.

 

[Lag4Ever]

Thanks for at least posting in the thread that there may or may not be a "thing"...

IMHO, here's the THING: there is really only one group of people who have the true capability to test whether there's an actual difference in mechanics between the current release and previous releases of the game. Hint - it's not the player base.

So yes, I do have some information that could help lead to a result: SSG, you are the only group who can do some A/B testing on different builds of the game, and let us - your paying customers - know what is going on here. If you are willing to do that, I'm sure that more knowledgable customers than I can help devise a series of tests for your team to conduct.

At the moment the main actionable feedback in this thread relates to whether enemies may or may not be bypassing player Fortification they were not previously, but so far nothing has turned up related to any change associated with it. If people have more information that could help lead to a result, please do let us know!

We know some of you want us to announce whether there is a bug or not, but we can't really make such a statement unless/until we have more information to base such a decision on. Could be nothing is different and it's a perception issue. Could be there's a bug that resulted in a change that so far has not been identified. Could be players were erroneously getting generous bypass and a halo to some other change made it start working correctly. The list of options goes on. At this moment there isn't really a concrete piece of evidence to make such a declaration as to whether there's a thing and what the nature of the thing is, or whether the feelings about "mobs hitting harder" actually relates to Fortification bypass.

 

[droid327]

At the moment the main actionable feedback in this thread relates to whether enemies may or may not be bypassing player Fortification they were not previously, but so far nothing has turned up related to any change associated with it. If people have more information that could help lead to a result, please do let us know!

We know some of you want us to announce whether there is a bug or not, but we can't really make such a statement unless/until we have more information to base such a decision on. Could be nothing is different and it's a perception issue. Could be there's a bug that resulted in a change that so far has not been identified. Could be players were erroneously getting generous bypass and a halo to some other change made it start working correctly. The list of options goes on. At this moment there isn't really a concrete piece of evidence to make such a declaration as to whether there's a thing and what the nature of the thing is, or whether the feelings about "mobs hitting harder" actually relates to Fortification bypass.

That'd be consistent with what I'm experiencing, too. On both my L32 THF KotC Paladin and my L32 VKF Sac Fist, both well geared, I noticed a palpable reduction in survivability, and an increase in "sudden deaths" which could be attributable to crits.

Benchmarks like Grimm were noticeably tougher skull-for-skull...difficulties that before were almost 100% no problem became multiple deaths

I'll also point out, specifically, that Ettercaps seem like one of the biggest offenders in terms of getting way tougher than they used to be, and relative to other IoD mobs. Dunno if that's because they have bigger crit profiles and therefore benefit more from the "change".

Edit:

Again, crit-heavy mobs seem to be the biggest outliers right now...

Marsh Ghoul sneak attacks you for 723 points of slash damage
Marsh Ghoul sneak attacks you for 1627 points of slash damage

This is with 269% fort in R2 Back to Basics. How much fort bypass do they have???

 

[Weslok]

my knight challenge used to immediately cause the mobs to drop aggro and turn to my tank... Now after update 59 the mobs, especially in raids will take up to 10 seconds to take effect and then doesn't last the full 8 seconds it is supposed to last... Tis is very bad on raids where my party counts on me to keep them alive... I can't hold agro on the unicorns in Dryad with an intim of 108 anymore... I used to keep Hawthorn to 0% corruption on hard, today she got to 100% and the unicorns ignored me completely half of the time... IT sucks to watch your regular raiders just leave party without saying a word... I am beyond furious because I spent $100 on a game today for a bunch of cosmetics and a mount that I will not be playing anymore... Elden Ring it's time to actually fire you up... DDO is not my darling anymore... Take a hike SSG!!!

 

[Salmiak]

From my experience it seems to be the archers who kill me much more often now. I didn't have that many problems with them before running on my sorc, but now they just casually one-shot me. It made start hiding behind corners and pillars and such because the archers are a menace for me now.

As for the critical hits landing more often, I do have a 408% fort tank on endgame and I didn't really notice much change there, but I do mostly run just LH or R1 raids and I have deflect arrows. The only time a crit goes through the fortification is in R10 tempest spine and although it does feel like I get hit for big numbers more often, none of them seem to be significantly higher than they were before.

Altough I did get a weird combat log message in R10 tempest spine, I don't have a screenshot sadly, but I did save the message; (Combat): Huge Rust Monster hit you for a total of 6,114 points of bludgeon damage after 600 were blocked by damage reduction.
I had the standard stoneskin 10/adamantine DR. It was only a scroll so it only protects against 70 points of damage. This happened on 26th of april so on the day of the droam update.

 

[JaynChar2019]

At the moment the main actionable feedback in this thread relates to whether enemies may or may not be bypassing player Fortification they were not previously, but so far nothing has turned up related to any change associated with it. If people have more information that could help lead to a result, please do let us know!

We know some of you want us to announce whether there is a bug or not, but we can't really make such a statement unless/until we have more information to base such a decision on. Could be nothing is different and it's a perception issue. Could be there's a bug that resulted in a change that so far has not been identified. Could be players were erroneously getting generous bypass and a halo to some other change made it start working correctly. The list of options goes on. At this moment there isn't really a concrete piece of evidence to make such a declaration as to whether there's a thing and what the nature of the thing is, or whether the feelings about "mobs hitting harder" actually relates to Fortification bypass.

My fort is 348% 50%Deflection 27% dodge about 30% absorption to all elements 116 prr 76 mrr 96 armor class deflect arrows evasion nine lives and a secondary evasion + feat on my armor. All of my gear is raid gear. I can say without a doubt that yes mobs are way tougher and hit way harder. The game is not fun to play like this especially when I have spent this much $$ time and effort on character builds to just get wiped time after time. It's been over a month and it is really getting old to just keep dying. We really need you guys to roll back the supposed lag fix that made all mobs way tougher. It didn't even fix the lag anyways. Go into Hunt or be hunted super laggy. And just laggy in common areas even. All it did was break the game. #rollbackmayupdatesddo

 

[axel15810]

Ran about a dozen raids this past Saturday. One odd thing we noticed is our tank was suddenly killed at the end fight of Hard Dryad - which is odd since his survivability is through the roof and it's only Hard so normally he gets little more than tickled in there. He said he took about 4,000 damage it was listed as hostile magic in the combat log. It was the unicorn that killed him I believe. It was on my stream so I went back and clipped it here incase it's helpful: https://clips.twitch.tv/GoldenTangibleBisonSaltBae-eM3bEEfc9xzVVskQ

 

[PraetorPlato]

I suspect I know what that death is—hostile magic normally means circles, and Scath leaves micro-circles all over. I bet he got clipped by one of those and normally avoids them. Not sure about damage tuning, but circles hitting for 4k seems very believable.

 

[Arcanaverse]

Ran about a dozen raids this past Saturday. One odd thing we noticed is our tank was suddenly killed at the end fight of Hard Dryad - which is odd since his survivability is through the roof and it's only Hard so normally he gets little more than tickled in there. He said he took about 4,000 damage it was listed as hostile magic in the combat log. It was the unicorn that killed him I believe. It was on my stream so I went back and clipped it here incase it's helpful: https://clips.twitch.tv/GoldenTangibleBisonSaltBae-eM3bEEfc9xzVVskQ

Clips are awesome. Thanks

Upon review this wasn't a single hit.

4287 > 3865 > 3952 > 3691 > 3446 > Then the giant's beam damage ramped up > 2546 > 2575 > 2539 > 850 > Camera turns just enough to see a unicorn circle underneath him. (tank is slightly off screen to the left) > 63 > ring pops (which is labeled as hostile magic) > -1610.

All of which happened in less than 2 seconds.

 

[axel15810]

I suspect I know what that death is—hostile magic normally means circles, and Scath leaves micro-circles all over. I bet he got clipped by one of those and normally avoids them. Not sure about damage tuning, but circles hitting for 4k seems very believable.

@DilemmaEnder would have to clarify but I don't think circles normally do much of any damage to him on Hard. He is our main tank and has tons of survivability built in.

 

[Cordovan]

My fort is 348% 50%Deflection 27% dodge about 30% absorption to all elements 116 prr 76 mrr 96 armor class deflect arrows evasion nine lives and a secondary evasion + feat on my armor. All of my gear is raid gear. I can say without a doubt that yes mobs are way tougher and hit way harder. The game is not fun to play like this especially when I have spent this much $$ time and effort on character builds to just get wiped time after time. It's been over a month and it is really getting old to just keep dying. We really need you guys to roll back the supposed lag fix that made all mobs way tougher. It didn't even fix the lag anyways. Go into Hunt or be hunted super laggy. And just laggy in common areas even. All it did was break the game. #rollbackmayupdatesddo

None of the game performance updates made enemies more difficult, although the Dungeon Alert changes could be seen in that light. However, based on this thread, it doesn't sound like folks are talking about a Dungeon Alert issue.

We did have a developer yesterday look into Fortification, Fort Bypass, and enemy Fortification and Bypass, both at the code level and internal server testing, and nothing came up as incorrect or not functioning as it used to prior to recent game updates. So if there's something there, it hasn't been discovered yet.

 

[rabidfox]

So the other thread about issues is such a dumpster fire I don't want to post there. But some issues brought up there that aren't new per se:
1) Unicorns in Dryad raid being hard to taunt- not a new issue, I've been in runs long before recent work where they just didn't want to intim correctly and it is quite frustating when that happens

2) Hunt being extra hard- I've been in runs where there's dysnc between the what server thinks is going on and what players see. Where people call out "souls" but not a single soul shows on my screen; same way there's 2 videos of the same VoD raid (from different perspectives) where one person's video can see a vengeance circle and the other recording doesn't show it at all. I can't say if dysnc like this is worse or not since recent work, I will say that once you're aware of it that you notice it more often (this is a common issue with being aware of any type thing, the brain just starts looking for it).

 

[calouscaine]

None of the game performance updates made enemies more difficult, although the Dungeon Alert changes could be seen in that light. However, based on this thread, it doesn't sound like folks are talking about a Dungeon Alert issue.

We did have a developer yesterday look into Fortification, Fort Bypass, and enemy Fortification and Bypass, both at the code level and internal server testing, and nothing came up as incorrect or not functioning as it used to prior to recent game updates. So if there's something there, it hasn't been discovered yet.

This is just me being curious, but if a dungeon alert is triggered, it buffs enemies and debuffs players in several aspects, correct?
I've noted, and I'll have to double check numbers later, but if 7 or more monsters spot a player/group, even in separate locations in a dungeon, the alert gets triggered and can rapidly advance from green to red. Sometimes, perhaps 25-50% of the time, when you kill all the mobs you can see the alert will stay at green or yellow. This could be due to mobs stuck in walls, floors, and so forth, which I have been seeing a great deal of lately in multiple dungeons.
If the base numbers didn't change, there has to be some other factor which has caused some sort of difficulty increase, yes?

 

[Arcanaverse]

I have a theory that I think can explain... well... everything. Lag, but not in the way that you think.

If I recall the timeline
Post u59 release, lag vastly improved for like 2 days. Game performance was much better. Then players were dungeon alerting more often reproducing the lag.

So from our side, the lag remains, but I suspect that isn't exactly accurate. The new lag feels different to me. So I think game side lag is still seeing benefits. And with better game performance, monsters are performing better. More accurate hits, more affects being applied, etc...

This is most evident with Dryad and the Demigod.

Pre u59, tanks (including myself) would easily keep the corruption % below 40%. Quite often spending most of the raid at 0-10%. Post u59, the corrupted unicorns are far more active. Less time between teleports (which reset aggro) and near 100% of the time apply a stack of corruption on each hit (pre u59, I'd estimate it was closer to 1/3rd on the same, hard difficulty).

Which would completely explain why even the dev's aren't seeing an issue with the code.

A hole is the fort bypass issue, but since J1NG and dev's haven't been able to replicate. odds are its champs. Specifcially Archeron (t3), Beast Mark (t3), and Infernal Pact (t2) champs. They're notorious for surprisngly high levels of damage due to their fort bypass and even pre u59, they bypass all fortification.