Tumble usage limit backfire

[gravisrs]

Thief-Acrobat: Tumbler - 3rd core
Thief-Acrobat: Cartwheel Charge - 5th core
Thief-Acrobat: Followthrough - capstone
Deep Gnome: Illusory Escape - Tier 1
Grandmaster of Flowers Destiny Mantle

Usage of above skills (tumbling part) are now artificially limited due to tumble time limit. I've only mentioned extra tumble mechanics that hadn't time limits on their own.
Wasn't tumble time-limit supposed to be only for experimental version of tumble? Or screw Thief-Acrobats?

 

[Arsont]

From what I've been able to understand in the conversations leading up to this update, the "experimental" version of tumble was being abused, and the whole Tumble skill has now been reworked to what's on live. There's no longer a need to differentiate "experimental" vs standard Tumble since they've finished their experiments and come to a conclusion.

At least on paper, I don't think this would be that much of an issue.

Tumble has 2 charges and recharges one every 8 seconds. Thief-Acrobat gets an additional +1 charge in the 3rd core. Mobility (Which TA probably take for the dodge bonus) gives an additional +1. The effects in the TA cores that have a timed component last 12 seconds (per the Wiki). So as long as you're not spamming Tumble and you're only using it to refresh the buffs, you shouldn't run out of Tumbles (while still being able to keep one for emergencies). Horizon Walker Misty Step also has a 12s buff, so is similarly affected by this change. If the number of Tumbles is still too limited, I could see SSG giving TA an additional Tumble charge in the capstone. I wouldn't be surprised to see that, or to see additional charges added into some of the ED's or other Heroic trees (Like Ninja Spy or Sacred Fist).

As for all the abilitites that let you pass through enemies, you still geta minimum of two tumbles you can use back-to-back. Unless you're zerging (Which seems to not be an SSG-approved playstyle ), the cases where you'd need to spam tumble to move through enemies should be fairly limited. So I don't see

This might be an issue if the game consumes a tumble without granting the intended buffs (which I've seen a couple people say has happened), but if everything is working as intended I don't see what the issue is.

 

[Seigebrisbane]

also ruined the pale master skill that gives you invisibility while blocking, now you can barley move at all while using the skill, its virtually gutted garbage now, you wonder if they even considered these skills while implementing the new change

 

[Mindos]

also ruined the pale master skill that gives you invisibility while blocking, now you can barley move at all while using the skill, its virtually gutted garbage now, you wonder if they even considered these skills while implementing the new change

This is horrible.

 

[gravisrs]

also ruined the pale master skill that gives you invisibility while blocking, now you can barley move at all while using the skill, its virtually gutted garbage now, you wonder if they even considered these skills while implementing the new change

Oh yes, and that.
All skills that uses blocking to work, are also partially affected as you are pretty grounded now when blocking.
I guess everyone is fine with raid tumble-kiters, tumble-tanks as they are pretty deprecated for a while now.

 

[Ostwind-Cannith]

these things break more things than they fix. then when you factor in all the unnecessary and unwanted nerfs it makes you wonder about the collective intellect of those calling the shots.

 

[rabidfox]

There's no longer a need to differentiate "experimental" vs standard Tumble since they've finished their experiments and come to a conclusion.

At this point, that toggle is just how tumble is activated.
Shift roots you and you do a shield block if you're moving. You can then tumble if you then press a direction afterwards.
vs
Shift tumbles you if you're already moving.

Personally I hope they keep the toggle and just rename it, as sometimes one method or the other is better for playstyles.

 

[Alternative]

I've never used experimental tumble and didn't care about people using/abusing it, but even not being able to tumble around for fun, while someone is DCed in a raid for example, feels sad. I know that's not affecting gameplay in any way, but that's one hamfisted fix.

 

[BlindBeard the Pirate]

If experimental tumble was being abused, there's a very easy solution to all of this:

Just revert the tumble system to how it was prior to U56, when experimental tumble was introduced

...But that'd be too simple and would involve too much common sense for SSG

 

[Ptalon]

But somebody figured out how to abuse something; so we have to take fun away from everyone else to fix it.

^%#E^%%

 

[Arsont]

If experimental tumble was being abused, there's a very easy solution to all of this:

Just revert the tumble system to how it was prior to U56, when experimental tumble was introduced

...But that'd be too simple and would involve too much common sense for SSG

Sure, they could just remove it and take Tumble back to being a fun flavor skill with minimal use cases, but that would be at odds with the direction SSG seems to be going. Based on the stated reasons for changing the EA mantle, it makes sense that SSG would want to add more interactive gameplay to a mechanic like Tumble.

I for one like the new Tumble changes. Sure, I will miss being able to roll in circles like a madman on the rare occasion I'm waiting for someone, but the actual gameplay benefits of the new Tumble have been pretty nice. I'm probably an outlier here, but: between the efforts to reduce lag and the new Tumble mechanic, DDO is feeling more interactive than it has since when Monk first came out. I'm looking forward to doing another Horizon Walker life with these changes and the new AoE archery shots.

 

[Arsont]

At this point, that toggle is just how tumble is activated.
Shift roots you and you do a shield block if you're moving. You can then tumble if you then press a direction afterwards.
vs
Shift tumbles you if you're already moving.

Personally I hope they keep the toggle and just rename it, as sometimes one method or the other is better for playstyles.

Right, that's kind of what I was trying to get at. The actual "experiment" part is done, now they just need to differentiate between the two ways of activating the Tumble.

Perhaps they could rename the toggle and add/update a tooltip. These assume the default interaction is that pressing the block key while stationary or without a positive tumble modifier always causes you to block, and then you can hop/tumble from the block stance. This toggle just makes clear that it's adding the fluidity to tumbling while moving.

"Fluid Tumble Controls: When turned on, tapping the block key while moving causes your character to tumble; holding the block key or pressing it while stationary will cause your character to block. When this option is turned off, pressing the block key always stops your character to block."

or, more simple:

"Fluid Tumble Controls: When turned on, tapping the block key while moving will cause your character to tumble in the direction of movement."

I don't recall where the description on how to Tumble and its requirements are, so I didn't include it in these tooltips (although it certainly could be added).

 

[The Blonde]

If they merely upped the 12 second tumbling buffs from Thief Acrobat's "Cartwheel Charge" & "Followthrough" to last 15 seconds instead of 12 I'd be happy. Cause as it is now, it becomes somewhat oppressive to manage your Tumbling to always occur during that 4 second window (12s buff minus 8s Tumble recharge).

 

[Foaly's_Pub]

hell I think this is a trash move to begin with.... not in a SINGLE edition of PnP out side of some strange house rules was I able to find a limit to how many times you can tumble as an action..... and I prefer to just sit and tumble so I have something for my fingers to do.... now I can't even do that while waiting on slow people If I have a group.

 

[Arsont]

If they merely upped the 12 second tumbling buffs from Thief Acrobat's "Cartwheel Charge" & "Followthrough" to last 15 seconds instead of 12 I'd be happy. Cause as it is now, it becomes somewhat oppressive to manage your Tumbling to always occur during that 4 second window (12s buff minus 8s Tumble recharge).

That would be apreciated. Juggling trances by themselves can already be a little too micro intensive for some people (Dance of Death is another offender). I play a lot of RTS and MOBAs, so I'm used to that sort of playstyle. I know not everyone is or wants that out of their MMORPG; giving them a slightly longer duration on these sorts of 100% uptime buffs would help mitigate that.

Standardizing the duration for short buffs all triggered by the same thing would be good. The Trailblazer effect lasts 20 seconds; bringing the effects from other places to match that (even while keeping the shorter CD's) would just make things feel more fluid.

 

[Vua]

But somebody figured out how to abuse something; so we have to take fun away from everyone else to fix it.

^%#E^%%

I'm pretty sure that was the name of this update.

 

[Owlbear]

hell I think this is a trash move to begin with.... not in a SINGLE edition of PnP out side of some strange house rules was I able to find a limit to how many times you can tumble as an action..... and I prefer to just sit and tumble so I have something for my fingers to do.... now I can't even do that while waiting on slow people If I have a group.

So you want one tumble charge every 6 seconds while not being able to attack anymore? DDO is not PnP, it's a good thing not everything is exactly as PnP DND. I'm sure you can find something else to do for your fingers while you wait...

The tumble charges icons are pretty ugly and way too big though...

 

[Archaic]

Pretty sure it hasn't been said but I am sure the underlying reason is speedy stealth tumbling....

 

[Foaly's_Pub]

So you want one tumble charge every 6 seconds while not being able to attack anymore? DDO is not PnP, it's a good thing not everything is exactly as PnP DND. I'm sure you can find something else to do for your fingers while you wait...

The tumble charges icons are pretty ugly and way too big though...

if they want to put a tumble limit as an action lets go full action limit like in PnP then is the route I see it heading down a great path to bring RP back to DDO.... NOT. as far as I can tell DDO is the only free moving MMO that implemented a Roll limit.

 

[ACJ97F]

SSG design process:

Intern: "Well, players seem to agree an internal cooldown on Experimental will solve the zerging, so we don't have to do anything else."

Designer: "Cool... so, lets add charges to regular tumble instead, add some immovable giant green pips and make them look like futuristic
tageting reticules, attach that to Block so the tanks can enjoy the artwork, and we'll get to mess with Rogues again for free. Oh, take that
feedback paperwork into the QA office. We're storing our monthly shred there, since nobody's using that space anyways."

Intern: "But, that's not...".

Designer: "Dismissed. Oh, and pick up some coffee and doughnuts on the way in tomorrow. We're having a meeting to discuss ways to
tie Wizard Spellpower into CON, and add a Stamina bar for chain-casting."