U61 Patch 1 Preview 1: Raid Loot

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Lotoc

Well-known member
Claws of the Balor would have been very cool and thematic to have an effect when equipped by a fiend pact warlock (especially acolyte of the skin).
Really for all weapons it's going to be very difficult to make them meta competitive while Attuned Bone has set bonuses AND the ideal customization effects going for them so leaning into flavor and cosmetics would be the best way to go without causing insane powercreep.
 

Stratiotis

Well-known member
idk...I am somewhat relieved the listed expansion & raid gear is crapola. I can skip the grind and remain at peak pinnacle performance with Dino gear. BUT, me thinks this gear may become relevant later...maybe. I liked the quests, very college-esque, even has some nice nostalgic cameos. Maybe we can just enjoy the content storyline and flower sniff the raid without the desire to get all the lootz.
 

Dragxon

Active member
Thoughts on new raid loot.

Accessories:

Divinity’s Hand: Great cloak. Doesn’t need anything.

Unsanctioned Arcana: Null magic guard is kinda pointless on the item and turn the page is underwhelming. Having both quality and insightful spell focus mastery are good though. Is still a good item but if you want it to be better just put either some spell power or lore on it or to make it a fantastic item I would suggest putting all 3 quality casting stats on it.

Blasphemer’s Manuscript: Insightful con and quality resistance are good. Incite is really the least needed thing on a dedicated tank these days because it just requires you to pass the intim. The damage a good tank deals will never be enough to hold agro without intim. The demonic shield proc is another kinda underwhelming effect as it just isnt a big enough proc to be worth it. My suggestion for a change would be to add either insightful false life, quality false life, or insightful charisma skills.

Exiled Tactica: 2 of the effects on the cloak (undying and action boosts) are augments so comparing this cloak to the duelist and archer's cloak from the quests and it just finds it lacking. It has 1% more armor piercing and 3 profane tactics versus getting insightful doublestrike/doubleshot and quality acc and quality deadly. This cloak needs an almost total rework to make it compete with the other cloaks. Some suggestions to add to the cloak that may make it worth while; Enhanced Bloodrage, Deadly 12, 2d6 profane sneak attack, Ram's Might, Quality Str/Dex. It needs something from that list to really make it stand out and be a choice.

Snare the Chained Band: Profane life force and the lore are good but demonic shield is even worse on this item and the spell resistance is bad. My suggestion to make the item better is add insightful firestorm spell power and it would be a really goods item.

Masterwork Gauntlet: Very weak outside of the assassinate. If you want it as a sneak pair of gloves I guess it works but even on that build it’s weak. Insightful and quality dex skills are just weak effects.

Augments:

Weaverwisp Melody: Just a weak effect maybe brought if it was prr and mrr or even upgraded to 5.

Blackstone Liturgy: It’s a fine augment.

A Treatise on Battle: Absolutely useless as is. You can get +16 individual tactics at level 32 why would you spend an augment on a weak version of that. The immune to fear is worse than the greater heroism augment. If you want this augment to be worthwhile make it a +3 quality tactics bonus or profane bonus.

Weapons: All the weapons need scaled to level 32 raid tier annd also be part of the forbidden knowledge set. As a side note when does the number of weapon dice go up again? If these weapons had 6[W] or heck even 5.5[W] that would make them much better.

The Demon Engine: Very good item just needs the fire lore and combustion scaled to a raid 32.

The Claws of the Balor: 6d6 weapons effects need to go. Those effects are just pointless. At that point just give us another 2 red slots so we can at least slot 9d6 from rubys. A much better version is the 15d6 + metal bypass that is on the dino weapons scale slot. If it had 2 of those it would be a pretty decent weapon then.

Anarchists Crossbow: Same thing I said about the 6d6 weapon effects. Also why ranged alacrity 15% when it should be 20%?

Pestle: Relentless fury works better on gear and shouldn't really be on a weapon. I would suggest replacing it with either Bonesplitter or Overwhelming Shockwave. Change that around and it should be a pretty good weapon.

Outburst: Has the 6d6 problem. I would add vorpal to the weapon. Even then it will be a bad weapon because its not a falchion.

Colossus: Please add 20% shield bash chance to the bashing effect. Then maybe replace the action boost effect and it will be an interesting option.

Char: Same thing with the 6d6 effects. It needs something special to be better than the dryad hand axe.

Collapse: A great club is pointless. It is probably the worst melee weapon in the game. If you wanna make it semi used change it to be a maul and then take off relentless fury and add either Bonesplitter or Overwhelming Shockwave.

Demise: It has the 6d6 problem, fix that and maybe it will be used.

Ignition: The 6d6 needs to change but otherwise this is a good weapon because it is focused as a trash mob weapon.

Marro: The spell power needs to be scaled to level 32 raid tier. Also is it missing a 4th effect? If so I suggest quality firestorm spell power. Or ash but if you add ash make sure it works on spell casts and not just melee like the hobh kama.

The weapons overall will be weak compared to dino weapons because you can get effects like Dust, Ooze, and Ash which are worth more than pretty much all other effects that you can put on weapons.
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
Could always put some kind of summon bolt on the xbows. The one from Hallowed Splinters is nice; more variety of nifty summoned bolts like that would be fun and it makes items have longevity well beyond when the weapon itself stops holding up.
 

Lotoc

Well-known member
Could the Blackstone Liturgy give Nullification rather than just raw Negative spellpower? (Tested and it grants nothing for poison)
these implement+spellpower augments tend to have an ideal usecase of being put in the weapon for an imbue build that wants the raw spellpower but doesn't use a caster weapon, there isn't an imbue currently that scales with negative spellpower.
The only other use I really see is putting this in a dinobone caster 1h cause I believe those aren't currently giving implement bonuses usually.
Further thoughts on this, if including poison spellpower isn't an option and you specifically want to exclude it...
Consider making this augment Negative+Evil spellpower so it'd at least have a solid use case for the nutjobs playing DA imbue builds.
Totally thematically appropriate for the item to include evil spellpower.
 

Meastbode

New member
I like earlier recommendations for adding more unique effects on raid weapons/items (Thunderholme, LGS, etc), rather than the 6d6's.

I also like the idea of additional feat-based effects on items or augments, like has been done with EDs (if you have X feat, get X bonus). How about a Secrets of the Planes augment that would boost your Legendary feat with another effect? Thinking that effect could be DCs, SA dice, Imbue dice, %HP...whatever, but in the flavor of the feat that you have. You can only have one Legendary feat, and an augment that adds some additional bonus sounds like something people would want to run a raid for. Fits the flavor of the x-pack too, with Vecna and multiverse vibes.
 

Qtcreator

Well-known member
Thoughts on new raid loot.

Accessories:

Divinity’s Hand: Great cloak. Doesn’t need anything.

Unsanctioned Arcana: Null magic guard is kinda pointless on the item and turn the page is underwhelming. Having both quality and insightful spell focus mastery are good though. Is still a good item but if you want it to be better just put either some spell power or lore on it or to make it a fantastic item I would suggest putting all 3 quality casting stats on it.

Blasphemer’s Manuscript: Insightful con and quality resistance are good. Incite is really the least needed thing on a dedicated tank these days because it just requires you to pass the intim. The damage a good tank deals will never be enough to hold agro without intim. The demonic shield proc is another kinda underwhelming effect as it just isnt a big enough proc to be worth it. My suggestion for a change would be to add either insightful false life, quality false life, or insightful charisma skills.

Exiled Tactica: 2 of the effects on the cloak (undying and action boosts) are augments so comparing this cloak to the duelist and archer's cloak from the quests and it just finds it lacking. It has 1% more armor piercing and 3 profane tactics versus getting insightful doublestrike/doubleshot and quality acc and quality deadly. This cloak needs an almost total rework to make it compete with the other cloaks. Some suggestions to add to the cloak that may make it worth while; Enhanced Bloodrage, Deadly 12, 2d6 profane sneak attack, Ram's Might, Quality Str/Dex. It needs something from that list to really make it stand out and be a choice.

Snare the Chained Band: Profane life force and the lore are good but demonic shield is even worse on this item and the spell resistance is bad. My suggestion to make the item better is add insightful firestorm spell power and it would be a really goods item.

Masterwork Gauntlet: Very weak outside of the assassinate. If you want it as a sneak pair of gloves I guess it works but even on that build it’s weak. Insightful and quality dex skills are just weak effects.

Augments:

Weaverwisp Melody: Just a weak effect maybe brought if it was prr and mrr or even upgraded to 5.

Blackstone Liturgy: It’s a fine augment.

A Treatise on Battle: Absolutely useless as is. You can get +16 individual tactics at level 32 why would you spend an augment on a weak version of that. The immune to fear is worse than the greater heroism augment. If you want this augment to be worthwhile make it a +3 quality tactics bonus or profane bonus.

Weapons: All the weapons need scaled to level 32 raid tier annd also be part of the forbidden knowledge set. As a side note when does the number of weapon dice go up again? If these weapons had 6[W] or heck even 5.5[W] that would make them much better.

The Demon Engine: Very good item just needs the fire lore and combustion scaled to a raid 32.

The Claws of the Balor: 6d6 weapons effects need to go. Those effects are just pointless. At that point just give us another 2 red slots so we can at least slot 9d6 from rubys. A much better version is the 15d6 + metal bypass that is on the dino weapons scale slot. If it had 2 of those it would be a pretty decent weapon then.

Anarchists Crossbow: Same thing I said about the 6d6 weapon effects. Also why ranged alacrity 15% when it should be 20%?

Pestle: Relentless fury works better on gear and shouldn't really be on a weapon. I would suggest replacing it with either Bonesplitter or Overwhelming Shockwave. Change that around and it should be a pretty good weapon.

Outburst: Has the 6d6 problem. I would add vorpal to the weapon. Even then it will be a bad weapon because its not a falchion.

Colossus: Please add 20% shield bash chance to the bashing effect. Then maybe replace the action boost effect and it will be an interesting option.

Char: Same thing with the 6d6 effects. It needs something special to be better than the dryad hand axe.

Collapse: A great club is pointless. It is probably the worst melee weapon in the game. If you wanna make it semi used change it to be a maul and then take off relentless fury and add either Bonesplitter or Overwhelming Shockwave.

Demise: It has the 6d6 problem, fix that and maybe it will be used.

Ignition: The 6d6 needs to change but otherwise this is a good weapon because it is focused as a trash mob weapon.

Marro: The spell power needs to be scaled to level 32 raid tier. Also is it missing a 4th effect? If so I suggest quality firestorm spell power. Or ash but if you add ash make sure it works on spell casts and not just melee like the hobh kama.

The weapons overall will be weak compared to dino weapons because you can get effects like Dust, Ooze, and Ash which are worth more than pretty much all other effects that you can put on weapons.
Hahaha,you know ssg’s weapons 6d6 are secret prescription
 

choco1212

Member
I am extremely suprised that the devs think that any of the raid weapons are better than the Dino weapons, which can be customised, unless you are after feed back on the weapon art only, in which case, your arts team are out performing the development team by a mile!The same can be said for the 5 piece sets, not on par with the dino sets, well done on the Vitality 48 augment, not worth £70 though.
 

Lazuli

Well-known member
Could always put some kind of summon bolt on the xbows. The one from Hallowed Splinters is nice; more variety of nifty summoned bolts like that would be fun and it makes items have longevity well beyond when the weapon itself stops holding up.
It doesn't even have to be an xbow skill. An item whose only ability is a clickie to summon special bolts would be highly desirable for all users of these weapons.

Devs, I'll give you an idea for future loot: create an item whose only function is to be a frame to introduce clickies with certain mechanics. For example, special ammunition for a type of weapon, but it could be other things: a clickie that imitates an ointment of bypass of one Damage Reduction, for example (bypass silver, bypass cold iron, etc). Or a specific type of boost. Or summons etc. Then, you can introduce clickies for that frame in the game, in different updates. The cliclies can work by themselves, but if you put them in the frame, they take up less inventory space.

As they are clickies, they will have limited charges. A silver bypass damage reduction clickie, for example, isn't as good as an augment that gives you the ability permanently, but it can be an interesting thing to have for bosses if you don't have the bypass permanently.

A new type of loot. Something different, that does not require altering a current set (and with it, getting into the nightmare of making tetris loot again for our toons).

There's soooo much room for new, novel loot. New abilities, clickies (please don't make us equip them to use them), reuse of old enchantments, etc. Devs really don't need to be boxed into a clone loot model, where stats seem randomly spread out and whose only change is that they raise a number in power.

With the amount of loot that exists, and there are stats that are almost impossible to equip, because they appear in very few items, and often in conflict with others... I don't know, the solution doesn't always have to be to change one item for another. Give us clickies. Give us the possibility to use various weapons. Give us more variety.

The weapon thing has been said by rabidfox in the other topic:
I really want sentient stuff to get a pass. Jewels could then be removed from weapons and given their own gear slot (with filigrees tied directly to the jewel). Then we could swap weapons and jewels indepently making it easier to have multiple weapons (and try new builds out).
This is very necessary, because currently we can only use one weapon due to sentience. Before we changed weapons depending on the situation. therefore, there was more variety of loot that was attractive to us. Now I look at the weapons of the new raid and I say; huh, for what? I already have a good weapon. If sentience were something that I could use with various weapons, I would look with much more interest at the possibility of farming new weapons, and use one or the other depending on the situation or the enemy.

------
And one last attempt to get a design change for future updates (I know that for this one there is no possibility). Devs, I really hate, hate, hate, Tetris that requires fitting a character's equipment, and I hate even more that when a new item comes out that I like I have to change the ENTIRE set, because changing a single item already unbalances all the bonuses the character needs. And that totally kills my desire for new items in the game. I only consider incorporating a new item if I have to make a major change to all the equipment, with a great profit, because otherwise it is not worth it.

I know this is outside the design space of this update, but can't you please do something to make it easier to fit new items into an already built set? For futures updates. Thanks.
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
I wish their was a new chest piece with Exceptional Universal Spell Lore 5% & Exceptional Universal Spell Power +15; would make caster tetris easier with the Vecna set bonuses.
 

Ying

5000+ hours played
Could always put some kind of summon bolt on the xbows. The one from Hallowed Splinters is nice; more variety of nifty summoned bolts like that would be fun and it makes items have longevity well beyond when the weapon itself stops holding up.
Some sort of returning DR-breaking bolts would be useful. Can't Cannith Craft those.
 
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misterski

Well-known member
Some sort of returning DR-breaking bolts would be useful. Can't Cannith Craft those.
It's probably too late for this expansion but a quiver that can summon bolts and one for arrows would be nice. I know new quivers have been asked for since there hasn't been a new one added in quite a few years.
 

Ying

5000+ hours played
It's probably too late for this expansion but a quiver that can summon bolts and one for arrows would be nice. I know new quivers have been asked for since there hasn't been a new one added in quite a few years.
Quivers can't have clickies because they are containers.

A new raid quiver would be welcomed. Hell, an ML32 version of the Epic Quiver of Alacrity without the -50 Concentration would be welcomed. That would make it appealing to shuriken throwers, since -50 Concentration affects the ki pool.
 

PraetorPlato

Well-known member
I’d run that on my tank. Don’t want to farm Asc Chamber for yet another heroic quiver, low on augment slots, and don’t love that I can’t scroll cast under a heavy DoT with epic QoA.
 

seph1roth5

Well-known member
Diablo 3 or 4 loot is 10000x more unique than DDOs has been for years now. I think the only loot that stands out as not just shuffling around the same enhancements is the SM staff (?) that banes, crown of snow that freezes, uhhh fey gear that gives wind through the trees...yeah that's it lol. I mean, dino gives LGS options but that's reshuffling old effects still.

There's a zillion different and unique things that could be done, but I think they're afraid of making anything good because then it'll be something everyone has to use. When really, that's how it's been forever anyways. Making stuff worse won't change the fact that high end players are going to want to have the best gear on, it's just going to make that suck more.
 

Edrein

Well-known member
Diablo 3 or 4 loot is 10000x more unique than DDOs has been for years now. I think the only loot that stands out as not just shuffling around the same enhancements is the SM staff (?) that banes, crown of snow that freezes, uhhh fey gear that gives wind through the trees...yeah that's it lol. I mean, dino gives LGS options but that's reshuffling old effects still.

There's a zillion different and unique things that could be done, but I think they're afraid of making anything good because then it'll be something everyone has to use. When really, that's how it's been forever anyways. Making stuff worse won't change the fact that high end players are going to want to have the best gear on, it's just going to make that suck more.
Aight of all of the comments in this thread, saying this loot is worse than the itemization of Diablo 4 is a flat insult to the devs. Even I'm offended on their behalf lol.

Perhaps you should make some suggestions on how you'd like to see the loot change instead of making comments like that.
 

droid327

Well-known member
Diablo 3 or 4 loot is 10000x more unique than DDOs has been for years now. I think the only loot that stands out as not just shuffling around the same enhancements is the SM staff (?) that banes, crown of snow that freezes, uhhh fey gear that gives wind through the trees...yeah that's it lol. I mean, dino gives LGS options but that's reshuffling old effects still.

There's a zillion different and unique things that could be done, but I think they're afraid of making anything good because then it'll be something everyone has to use. When really, that's how it's been forever anyways. Making stuff worse won't change the fact that high end players are going to want to have the best gear on, it's just going to make that suck more.

This is an unfair comparison because D3 is designed entirely different than DDO. In D3, your gear defines your build. It gives you special effects on certain abilities, and thats what defines how you play. Your actual build selections are just determined by what set you're using.

DDO is built the other way around. Your build choices determine your playstyle, and then your gear is selected to complement it. Gear cant give too many special effects like you're calling for, because then you're pigeonholing people into the builds that can make best use of those effects, since that would give you a huge advantage over builds that dont have corresponding "D3 Set-tier" options.
 

seph1roth5

Well-known member
New/unique doesn't mean it has to be broken and overpowered. Most people don't use the crown of snow, either because they have the spell focuses elsewhere or they kill so fast the freezing doesn't matter, but I really like it. I tend to use more slas and cheap un-meta'd spells in addition to big blasts.

But random effect stuff off the top of my head:
- aura spells like death aura/fire shield apply to summons/hirelings/pets when cast
- cure spells/admixtures have higher dice ala inflicts (maybe only when used offensively)
- when you shoot a runearm, do tier 1 damage to stuff around you, breaking breakables
- when you enter a rage, nearby enemies gain 2d4 stacks of vulnerability
- Your bardic inspiration also grants (something?)
- Offensive divine spells have a 5% chance to daze
- While in a major form, have a permanent call lightning storm in effect (in different elements)
- Using an action boost increases your size, giving you a bonus to str, damage, intimidate, etc.
- healing spells use higher of light or positive spellpower
- beef up light/dark monk strikes
- Whenever you use a smite attack (paly, fvs, whatever else), nearby enemies get a -2 to saves/spellresistance/stuff for 10 sec
 
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Svirfneblin

Well-known member
Hi steel star I was hoping to see a Shortsword and a Kama in the raid now that the ninja tree is getting tweaked and becoming viable.

also how about some profane assassinate DC item. 100 DC on special effects is a bit light here at endgame

As others have said the 6d6 damage effects are getting a bit long in the tooth at level 32, could use more cowbell
 
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