Mordenkainen
Please SSG, no more nerfs. Thank you!
Moar Skill = More Fun;
AWESOME CHANGES!
AWESOME CHANGES!
U66 Preview 2: Tumble Changes
- Thread starter Tonquin
- Start date
Cordovan
Community Manager
Clearly the goal is not to find new ways to abuse systems, if there are things we need to look at, please do let us know. If it feels exploitey feel free to message me privately about it.
Raid tanks doing tumbles every time its off cool down for the 95% uncapped dodge sounds like an unintended use for me. Not really an exploit at all so posting it here. Just make sure to have low tumble skill so you dont really go far.
I suggest limiting the dodge and reflex bonus to light and no armor and to make the dodge bonus depend on tumble skill as well.
Getting 95% uncapped dodge in heavy armor with low tumble skill sounds like the opposite of what skilllessly rolling around in heavy armor would do for you
Eme
Well-known member
urgh. agreeI hope the pips are a placeholder. Those are annoying to look at.
PraetorPlato
Well-known member
Using it off cooldown is a bad (in the sense of ineffective) use, using it to dark souls is a very good use (that seems to be exactly intended based on tumble description).Raid tanks doing tumbles every time its off cool down for the 95% uncapped dodge sounds like an unintended use for me. Not really an exploit at all so posting it here. Just make sure to have low tumble skill so you dont really go far.
I suggest limiting the dodge and reflex bonus to light and no armor and to make the dodge bonus depend on tumble skill as well.
Getting 95% uncapped dodge in heavy armor with low tumble skill sounds like the opposite of what skilllessly rolling around in heavy armor would do for you
Aaabbbcccddd
Well-known member
Tanks should have nice things too. Light armor is OP compaired to heavy armor, their power level is not even on the same plane.Raid tanks doing tumbles every time its off cool down for the 95% uncapped dodge sounds like an unintended use for me. Not really an exploit at all so posting it here. Just make sure to have low tumble skill so you dont really go far.
I suggest limiting the dodge and reflex bonus to light and no armor and to make the dodge bonus depend on tumble skill as well.
Getting 95% uncapped dodge in heavy armor with low tumble skill sounds like the opposite of what skilllessly rolling around in heavy armor would do for you
rabidfox
The People's Champion
The Tumble changes are reasonable. Good job finding a common ground.
I hope the pips are a placeholder. Those are annoying to look at.
My heads up display has room for a few more pieces of data...
Ying
5000+ hours played
I like the idea of a HUD, as long as I have control over what information goes there. So many other things I'd rather have in a HUD/WeakAuras setup than Tumble pips...
My heads up display has room for a few more pieces of data...
Yeah... but if you're a tumbling Alchemist with rune arms from Macrotechnic, watch out.
Seriously, the tumbles remaining indicators need to be toned down and/or relocated.
rabidfox
The People's Champion
I'd like the tumble indicator to be moveable and an option to always be visible (with a number time for when it'll charge). I quickly found myself out of charges and needing to try to tumble to see if had charges and had no idea when I'd have a charge back either.
The giant issue is if you're out of tumble charges then it roots you in place when trying to tumble. It needs to tell me I can't tumble while letting me still move freely. Getting rooted when trying to move/tumble away will just result in death.
The giant issue is if you're out of tumble charges then it roots you in place when trying to tumble. It needs to tell me I can't tumble while letting me still move freely. Getting rooted when trying to move/tumble away will just result in death.
seph1roth5
Well-known member
I like the new tumble system in theory, but few notes.
1 - I like to tumble in town, backflips and such, can the cooldown be faster/instant in public areas and not provide the buffs (if that even matters in towns)
2 - Dodge and reflex seems a bit complicated. It sounds like you're going for i-frames that many games (genshin impact!) have, would it just be easier to do that? Some sort of 99% arti bubble or something.
3 - I like thief acrobat getting a boost, and mobility, but think we need a few more sources. Preferably a reduction in recharge time as well, not just +1 charge.
- Every 10 ranks in balance = -1 recharge
- Quarterstaffs could give a passive 0.5 sec recharge.
- Swashbuckling -1 sec recharge
- Trickery Domain -2 sec recharge
- Monk ninja spy somewhere
- Tempest somewhere
- Vistani KF somewhere
4. Like people have mentioned, charges' graphics a bit too in your face. Maybe a toggleable feat that has the number of charges in there? When toggled on, get buffs and normal numbers. When toggled off, no buffs and faster recharge?
1 - I like to tumble in town, backflips and such, can the cooldown be faster/instant in public areas and not provide the buffs (if that even matters in towns)
2 - Dodge and reflex seems a bit complicated. It sounds like you're going for i-frames that many games (genshin impact!) have, would it just be easier to do that? Some sort of 99% arti bubble or something.
3 - I like thief acrobat getting a boost, and mobility, but think we need a few more sources. Preferably a reduction in recharge time as well, not just +1 charge.
- Every 10 ranks in balance = -1 recharge
- Quarterstaffs could give a passive 0.5 sec recharge.
- Swashbuckling -1 sec recharge
- Trickery Domain -2 sec recharge
- Monk ninja spy somewhere
- Tempest somewhere
- Vistani KF somewhere
4. Like people have mentioned, charges' graphics a bit too in your face. Maybe a toggleable feat that has the number of charges in there? When toggled on, get buffs and normal numbers. When toggled off, no buffs and faster recharge?
Shear-buckler
Well-known member
Why should any melee not take tumble and use it every time they engage a mob?
There is going to be a delicate balance between giving people who want tumble for its original intended purpose (i.e. rolling out of combat) enough for it to be useful (2 charges isn't) and giving so much that people will be taking one rank of tumble to get benefits that were never really intended.
I'd strongly suggest linking number of charges and cooldown rate closely to ranks in the tumbling skill. Things like the new 'super uncanny dodge', the reflex save bonus, and tumbling through enemies make more sense as options on the various enhancement trees. Of course, you could also mix and match; players with Uncanny Dodge (or Improved) also get the 'dodge on tumble' feature with the bonus increasing based on tumble skill, tumble skill bonus to reflex save could be linked to various other reflex save increase options, charges might be tied to tumble skill ranks while recharge rate is based on enhancements, et cetera.
Also, trying to tumble while 'out of tumbles' should cause you to do the 'bunny hop' that you get currently if you don't have ranks in the skill at all... with no 'extra abilities' attached.
Finally, I agree that, like Exalted Angel wings, tumble should recharge instantly in public areas. Yes, that potentially reintroduces the 'speed' complaint... but it's a public area. Mounts, the Phiarlan pendant, and other options already make movement speed very fast in those zones.
Marshal_Lannes
Well-known member
This is a good middle ground preserving the combat utility of tumble while taking away the zerging nature of tumble that was used to increase movement speeds. However, giving a 95% dodge benefit to tumble is game-breaking. Seeing tanks in full armor tumbling is going to become the new normal. This will effectively function as a new Meld. The design idea you're going for, putting a charge in the TA tree bonus, is a nimble fighter that moves around in combat using acrobatics. Armor restrictions for this should be enforced - no one wearing anything other than light armor should benefit from 95% dodge. Even then, you will see Barbarian tanks in light armor being nearly unhittable. A great deal of examination should be given to 95% dodge. As it stands now there is low-hanging fruit to be gobbled up in a way that is not intended.
Care should also be given to how many charges will be added to the game now or in the future. Providing too many will create the initial problem of players using them for movement outside of combat and not within the nature of the ability.
Care should also be given to how many charges will be added to the game now or in the future. Providing too many will create the initial problem of players using them for movement outside of combat and not within the nature of the ability.
I literally proposed this months ago.
No tumble delay was a gigantic improvement. Fluent movement control is incredibly important in adventure games. Souls games have proven this again and again.
It was obvious the sustained speed increase was unintentional and looked a bit silly. Stopping that is fair and expected. But the fluent tumbling and making the skill truly useful and opening design space for related buffs was good game design and it would have been terrible decision to just throw it away.
The charge system like fvs wings seemed the best solution and i'm looking forward to using it.
I only ask to give ninja spies and swashbucklers some tumble love too. They fit that archetype perfectly too.
No tumble delay was a gigantic improvement. Fluent movement control is incredibly important in adventure games. Souls games have proven this again and again.
It was obvious the sustained speed increase was unintentional and looked a bit silly. Stopping that is fair and expected. But the fluent tumbling and making the skill truly useful and opening design space for related buffs was good game design and it would have been terrible decision to just throw it away.
The charge system like fvs wings seemed the best solution and i'm looking forward to using it.
I only ask to give ninja spies and swashbucklers some tumble love too. They fit that archetype perfectly too.
nobodynobody1426
Well-known member
Raid tanks doing tumbles every time its off cool down for the 95% uncapped dodge sounds like an unintended use for me. Not really an exploit at all so posting it here. Just make sure to have low tumble skill so you dont really go far.
I suggest limiting the dodge and reflex bonus to light and no armor and to make the dodge bonus depend on tumble skill as well.
Getting 95% uncapped dodge in heavy armor with low tumble skill sounds like the opposite of what skilllessly rolling around in heavy armor would do for you
Hate to be that guy but actually
It's pure Video Game Logic / TT RPG Logic "balancing" that has full plate be non-mobile. Historically full plate was very flexible and easy to move around in. Each set was tailored for a specific individual much like a custom made fitted suit. The cost in today dollars would of been $200~400K per set. Because of this cost only the wealthy could afford to have it made along with the swordsmanship tutor and this is where the whole "Knight" concept came from. Super rich wealthy dudes in expensive almost impervious armor commanding a bunch of poor conscripts with spears to go kill other poor conscripts with spears.