Update 66 Preview 1: AOE Ranged Attacks

[Falkor]

Concur. Jack Esquire for president!

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Concur. Jack Esquire for president!

Don't tempt me Frodo! I would take it and use it only for good, but...

 

[Shear-buckler]

I guess I'd rather see it balanced than have it subsequently nerfed. If only because history suggests we'd end up with the usual over-reactive sledgehammer nerf that crushes everyone's souls and ends up in a worse position than if it didn't need rebalanced in the first place.

Fully agree. That is far more eloquently put than my first post in the thread but still the same sentiment

Please fix this before it goes live to spare us from the crying when it is inevitably nerfed.

 

[Speed]

If this test is successful, we may move this functionality to a very small number of other existing Ranged Attacks. Let us know what you think!

Scattershot was already in Horizon Walker universal tree since 2011, so any class could use it with bow.
The difference is that it targeted 3 random enemies in close range (and allowed for normal doubleshot) while new testing version creates aoe around chosen target with +1 critical threat and multiplier (not sure about allowing doubleshot).

Melee have strikethrough on each hit and cleave/whirlwind attacks.
Casters must pay sp cost (more noticeable when on first life, solo, or when you just have smaller limited pool to share with other spells like buffs/heals to use with all in the party).
Warlock has aoe shape with decreased damage.
Pure ranged without aoe spells are in trouble when surrounded by larger group, so would be nice if they have limited situational option for such scenario (especially when they play solo).

Ranged aoe just need to be balanced right to be fair with melee and casters.
Smaller aoe or cone (maybe two options like longer and wider, so everyone can fit it in their playstyle or match to situation if can have both).
Fair cooldown.
Limited charges with slow regeneration.
Shared cooldown with other ranged aoe.
Shared charges with other ranged aoe.
T4 (or T5 in some cases) on each tree that supports ranged option.
50% chance to miss per shot (or more favorable -1 shot per target) with Repeaters (average 1.5 shot per target, 2 if Expanded Clip feat) and Dual Crossbow to be more fair with other ranged weapons - it is better to have limited option on crossbows than nothing.
Possibly doubleshot can be allowed, so it is still powerful that can go above 200% with all damage effects (if doubleshot is above 100).
3 charges, 2 second cooldown and 12 second to regenerate 1 charge sound like enough to destroy each group (delay between encounters to charge up), so I believe 15 second regeneration would be more fair (Dragonborn can use Dragon Breath once per 25 second and can not combine it with doubleshot and extra effects).

Improved Precise Shot should not have -20%, because in practice it is not as effective like it sounds in theory (just like ranged players mentioned, it is currently hard to hit more enemies in line unless you sacrifice your dps time for kiting or waiting for proper moment with lucky no lag, otherwise you lose whole 20% damage on single targets - losing above first hit would be more fair if there must be any decrease).
Greate Crossbow could have trip on critical (instead of vorpal) to compete better with Repeaters.

 

[Celtic]

And how would it work with precise shot (as opposed to IPS) - the bonus from precise shot assumes single targets - an extra 125 ranged power from improved archers focus added to an AOE attack on top of everything else might also be somewhat overpowered.

If you do intend to do this could you also put in something similar (but exclusive of other similar enhancements in other trees) into the deepwood sniper tree for those of us who like to invest heavily in it. Though there is the problem of no free slots in the enhancement tree so youd have to amend one of the existing enhancements.

 

[YeeboF]

I just want Scattershot (or the equivalent) available on my arti now (and I'm sure throwers and inquis would want an AoE attack too).

Technically any martial ranged gets access to it through Shiradi in epics. I think it will actually be nice for there to be reason a sane player would ever choose bows over repeaters or an Inq. build in heroics going forward. Right now Inq. puts out roughly double the sustained DPS of a bow through most of heroics. Bows have better burst, but that doesn't help a whole lot vs giant packs of mobs...which is what you spend 95% or your time fighting. I think this will set up a dichotomy between bows and crossbows similar to SWF/ TWF vs 2HF.

However, I do agree that the arcane archer trees probably need access to this.

 

[Mickeymouse]

And how would it work with precise shot (as opposed to IPS) - the bonus from precise shot assumes single targets - an extra 125 ranged power from improved archers focus added to an AOE attack on top of everything else might also be somewhat overpowered.

It would be an understatement to say that it´d be quite hard to get that full stack of focus going in a scenario where you crave AOE... paper vs reality.

 

[ShotCaller]

People who are crapping on AOE ranged FINALLY being added to the game and claiming it's OP ... not ok. 18 years after the games launches, ranged FINALLY gets an AOE ... and people are crying rivers over this?

Ranged players have asked for something like this since the game started. Leveling is a horrid, unpleasant grind when you have to backwards kite pew pew pew pewing a horde of mobs for minutes. My sense is some of you have never really delved into this playstyle to have a basic understanding of how frustrating this mechanic is.

AOE archery is a win because it's a quality-of-life change to a beloved playstyle. DDO should have _always_ had some form of AOE for ranged. As far as I am concerned, they've repaired broken gameplay. Finally. This is one thing they are doing right in this update.

Why wouldn't you want players in your group to be more effective? It helps out everyone. This is not a competitive game.

If you need other people to be 'gimpy' or torn down so you can feel good about yourself or your gameplay, just ... wow.

"BEGONE, PUNY ARCHERS, FOR I AM THE GRIM NECRO WARLORD AND THE GLORY IS MINE ALONE!!!"

Sorry, but everything he's saying here is on point. In the space of one Producer's Letter archers went from "OMG lol who plays ranged builds?" to "OMG ranged is so OP, NERF THEM". So I have the same question I had before, which is really the same as Falkor's: why would anyone wish weakness on another player's toon, especially one as marginalized as the ranger?

Apparently there are a lot of Grim Necro Warlords in our midst. Should future LFMs have DPS gates to make sure archers remain at the kiddie table?

 

[Smokewolf]

A toggled effect would be ideal.

 

[Konsumer]

The worst thing about my ranger life was having to kill everything one at a time. So this is a welcome change.

 

[Ying]

why would anyone wish weakness on another player's toon, especially one as marginalized as the ranger?

Because it's easier for most people to tear others down than it is for them to accept their own limitations/inadequacies. They want to drag others down to their level of competence, like crabs in a bucket. Because improving yourself is hard work. Everyone wants the world to change, but they don't want to change themselves.

 

[FaceDancer]

Hah! Careful Ying... that almost sounds political! This is something that I see as a great move. I suspect it will be tweaked and tempered at bit, but this is something that IMO is long overdue.

 

[l_remmie]

This ranged update is both fun, good and opens up a fair bit of design space. This is good game design.

They need to create more aoe shots, at least 1 in every ranged tree. And i'm not asking for damage i'm asking for creative versatility. You can have a shot do 0 dmg is cool enough.

 

[The Narc]

Agreed i am so sick and tired of watching mass crowd control and then smash down mobs. It literally was the end of this games active combat.

I mean are we designing quests for the lowest common denominator, because any idiot can hit a crowd control button and then beat on immobile non attacking mob.

 

[Shear-buckler]

Agreed i am so sick and tired of watching mass crowd control and then smash down mobs. It literally was the end of this games active combat.

I mean are we designing quests for the lowest common denominator, because any idiot can hit a crowd control button and then beat on immobile non attacking mob.

There is something we can agree on.

There was a thread about that. It quickly turned into the usual "you are just asking for nerfs because you are bad at the game" nonsense.

 

[The Narc]

The quicker we get away from everquest/wow like mechanics the better off this game will be.

 

[CBDunk]

Crowd control has always been part of D&D.

Heck, it existed in the wargames D&D developed from.

 

[Tilomere]

Ideal would be to have PS BaB 1, IPS BaB 6, Greater PS BaB 11, and Epic PS lvl 22 add 1, 2, 3, 4% strike through to all ranged attacks per AF stack, and not have a ranged character kill an entire pack in 2 seconds with a pre-prepped Hunts End + Pin, followed by hunts End + Scattershot, because that's just broken. Just get rid of IPS stance at this point and make it a passive strikethrough bonus to archer's focus, which therefore works with all weapon types, with all attacks, and doesn't break the game. Then reduce the amount of max stacks in HW and DWS, and also reduce ranged power per stack to 1, 2, 3, 4 due to increased AoE capacity.

By level 11 for example, a DWS ranger would have 20 stacks and get 60% strike through and 60 ranged power when mobs start to have more hp. An AA ranger would have 15 stacks and 45% strike through and 45 ranged power.

Otherwise what happens if tanks swap to Pin instead of EA Aura, and rotate shield throw with pin? Are we going to allow say a dragonborn tank to rotate roar, pin, and shield throw for permanent AoE lockdown?

Or, if that is a ranged thrower build instead? Allow a ranged to have permanent AoE lockdown? I mean, a wizzy or sorc thrower could do it already I guess. But people are already saying mass hold is too strong, so that's not really a good argument to allow fighters to have it as well.

 

[Tanis]

IT WORKS! they need to be realy close to each other and BOOM! ALL DEAD!

Nerfs incoming

 

[Tanis]

If your given ranged builds aoe. Holy moly are you going to unbalance ranged vs melee. Better be cutting their ranged power in half

It’s not ranged power that’s the problem though it’s other stuff & has been for long time