Update 66 Preview 1 - Epic Destiny Refresh
- Thread starter Tonquin
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Reifee - Orien
Well-known member
At R8 450 AC, 350 PRR 350 MRR doens't cut it for a tank unless you have some good healing
Can be done some equality change in tier five intensify destiny enhancement? Primal Avatar really have short end here.
- Magus have "Epic Metamagic Feats: Intensify: Using the Intensify metamagic no longer costs spell points." for 1 Destiny Point.
- Exalted Angel have "Enhanced Metamagics: Intensify: The Intensify Metamagic no longer costs Spell Points.
Additional Passive, on both options: +5 Fire, Light, Positive, Alignment and Universal Spellpower." for 2 Destiny Point.
- Primal Avatar have ONLY "Epic Improved Intensify Spell: Reduces the cost of Intensify by 2/4/6" for 1/2/3 Destiny Point .... ????
- Magus have "Epic Metamagic Feats: Intensify: Using the Intensify metamagic no longer costs spell points." for 1 Destiny Point.
- Exalted Angel have "Enhanced Metamagics: Intensify: The Intensify Metamagic no longer costs Spell Points.
Additional Passive, on both options: +5 Fire, Light, Positive, Alignment and Universal Spellpower." for 2 Destiny Point.
- Primal Avatar have ONLY "Epic Improved Intensify Spell: Reduces the cost of Intensify by 2/4/6" for 1/2/3 Destiny Point .... ????
Ptalon
Well-known member
Mine.
Nerfed enough to prevent me from doing what I did before: ruining my fun = destroyed.
They couldn't simply make Cutter better against 'tank mobs' than Adrenaline is?
As you said, Adrenaline is good against everything. Cutter really only comes into play against things that take a long time to kill (mostly bosses). So why should Adrenaline be better than Cutter against those? Cutter could easily be improved by increasing the damage per tick, tick frequency, total tick duration, and/or maximum stacks. None of which would make it appreciably better against 'trash' mobs that die quickly anyway.
No nerf to Adrenaline required. Cutter nowhere near game breaking. Just adjusted to not always be inferior to Adrenaline.
Shear-buckler
Well-known member
What will you be prevented from doing?
Estravenne
New member
I'm actually quite liking some of the changes to the Exalted Tree for damage dealing players. If you pick this new option, you can get one significantly empowered healing spell every 5 seconds, and two "extra" single target nukes with the fire and light guaranteed damage. It would work nicely with my hybrid EK, for example, which casts a few spells but also hits things (although whether I'd want to lose the MP from a melee or hybrid tree is an open question). Then if you invest heavily in the EA tree, you get that very nice absorption from the new Holy Presence. Obviously, I'd prefer the pulse heal was left in, since it's clearly popular with the player base, but I respect what you're trying to do with this tree.
A couple of questions:
- Can the damage from these 1d6+6 procs critically hit? Presumably using the crit profile for that spellpower type?
- Do these procs have an MCL?
- Does caster level equal character level? If so, could the description be adapted to make this clear?
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Mordenkainen
Please SSG, no more nerfs. Thank you!
This.
Make it a alternative and situationally better tool in the toolbox rather than making it flat-out superior is the way.
But Tonquin and co. won't do it. Again, I'm beginning to suspect that these changes aren't quite what it's being made out to be as advertised (enhance under-utilized epic strikes). That is to say: this whole thing seems like a giant nerf packaged as something else.
Am I wrong?
Elves United
Well-known member
Well you've just made the one change that would make Quick Cutter relevant. Make it an alternative. If you could take Adrenaline and Quick Cutter at the same time. ( even if they are both epic strikes sharing the same cooldown ) then Quick cutter would make sense to take. My tactical wolf does it with Adrenaline and Dire Charge. Two epic strikes and I choose which one to use based on the situation. But right now they are multi-selected and you can only have one. As it stands right now Quick Cutter would need to do about double the DPS at least to be even considered an alternative to Adrenaline to make up for it being only situationally useful. Even if the devs were to buff Quick Cutter and to give it upgrades that aren't laughably bad compared to the adrenaline I do not see them upgrading it to do that much damage.
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Crustbucket
Well-known member
Im not disagreeing, i use Adrenaline fairly often actually. I just wish Quick Cutter could come into its own as a nice Boss beater
i like to see utility added even if it doesn't downright compete everywhere. Just ideas hopefully suggesting something might catch a devs eye. And yeah most players having fairly level suggestions has been something i noticed as well. I wish we had abilities brought up to par instead of the Hammer as of late. So again i am with you, just hoping for the best!
The Narc
Well-known member
Thank you torquin for the changes to EA healing aura, not all builds should have access to a passive self healing aura, a big part of this game is build diversity, some builds having an ability should not become all builds have the opportunity for the same ability, especially something like passive self healing.
With this aura now changed the game is now moving away from a dumbed down version where all builds are far to surviveable in epic/legendary on elite or low skulls. I play in permadeath almost exclusively and i am currently aware of a whole group of permadeathers that are now going to have to work to be survivable because their level of skill will not be blanket covered by such an easy all can get button and i am very happy that this change has been made to bring some semblance of challenge back into the game.
With this aura now changed the game is now moving away from a dumbed down version where all builds are far to surviveable in epic/legendary on elite or low skulls. I play in permadeath almost exclusively and i am currently aware of a whole group of permadeathers that are now going to have to work to be survivable because their level of skill will not be blanket covered by such an easy all can get button and i am very happy that this change has been made to bring some semblance of challenge back into the game.
I don't think they'd need to. If you have a character, or are in a group, that can already easily handle groups of relatively 'squishy' mobs then there isn't a lot of benefit in taking another ability which helps you do that. If you can instead take an ability that helps (more) against 'tanky' mobs... why wouldn't you?
Yes, some would still take Adrenaline for the versatility... but IF Quick Cutter were even 25% better than Adrenaline against bosses, some people would absolutely choose it. It depends on what the individual character / group needs. If you have a multi-selector then each item should benefit some build/style more than the other options do.
This is the problem with changes like those to Draconic Incarnation and Exalted Angel. They are removing build diversity in the name of 'balance'.
Take a look at the Draconic Incarnation tree. There is only ONE active offensive ability in the entire tree... Dragon Breath. Most Epic Destinies have around three. So, in the past you were giving up the ability to 'chain trigger' multiple epic abilities in exchange for having one BIG attack. Now, Dragon Breath has been 'balanced' to do damage similar to other epic abilities... despite it being the only one in the tree. This is a decrease in build diversity. The 'one big attack' option has been removed. Chaining attacks that do similar damage to Dragon Breath will be more effective going forward.
Same situation with Exalted Angel... it had an aura that gave ongoing passive healing in amounts smaller than various active healing options could provide. That aura is being replaced with a better boost to other healing options. Essentially, viable passive healing is being removed from the game... and builds that have little to no inherent healing now have fewer ways to obtain viable self-healing from the epic trees. Less diversity.
Adrenaline / Quick Cutter could be changed to make both viable / useful in different circumstances. Dragon Breath and Holy Presence are both being changed to eliminate what makes them different (NOT 'more powerful) than other builds. This isn't 'balance'. It's homogenization.
That is not my experience unless you mean R8 raids, in which case I have zero experience
In R6 quests you neither need tank nor healer at all. I often run R6 with my sorc and a couple of mid 20s guildies that want the xp + rxp with my sorc pulling the full load. If another capped dps joins we can pretty much zerg R6s.
In R8 I often run shortman with a few guildies with just a decent build dps melee as the "tank" and no real healer. Sometimes my sorc is the nearest thing we have to a healer using EA aura and mass cure.
In R10 a tank and a healer certainly makes things smoother but neither is absolutely needed as long as the dps work well together to spot heal, share aggro and cc.
My Pally tank has 8k hp, 500prr, 300mrr and 400 ac. I only use him for R10 quests and raids. On R8 my sorc will almost always be the better choice while tank will be bored and feel like a waste of a spot.
Which build is that? And what you describe could be anything from a minor setback to a complete "now useless" so maybe you need to provide a bit more detail if you are to be taken seriously.
Tonquin
of Lightning Hammer fame!
This is all set for Preview 2, thank you!
FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted
Well-known member
tonquin, not sure if you fixed this or not, but carrion swarm does not stack when cast by different players, it overrides itself. please fix so the new buffed carrion swarm can be useful in groups
Tonquin
of Lightning Hammer fame!
This is also fixed! Worth noting that I am reasonably certain this was a display bug only - there are 3 component effects delivered by the spell, and the two (invisible) damage over time effects were already set up to handle a unique channel per originator. It was only the tracking debuff portion missing that flag. Either way, it should be all set for Preview 2, thank you!tonquin, not sure if you fixed this or not, but carrion swarm does not stack when cast by different players, it overrides itself. please fix so the new buffed carrion swarm can be useful in groups
glass_jaws
Well-known member
One thing I keep thinking of for this is a special buff of some sort when an enemy dies under your cutter effect. Maybe it could be your next attack applies cutter, or does extra damage or something. This would at least help keep the chain going while fighting weaker enemies. Obviously would have to be designed and balanced by the dev team, but I think it could be a path forward to at least making it feel valuable in non raid content.
FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted
Well-known member
you are the best
FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted
Well-known member
oh, tonquin, couple more things. i think cut the strings in fatesinger should give a bonus to hit so that way a spellcaster can use it (and the ability uses spellcasting stats), and the fatesinger and magus mantle on live do not crit. could these be changed to crit? currently nobody is taking them because of that (also fatesinger mangtle would be a lot better if it proceed every 6 seconds like every other mantle)
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