I for one would love to get a multiselector for all trances to function like PDK. Play the buff management game or just get 1/4th bonus at all times (opposed to half like a stance).
Update 66 Preview 2: Dragon Lord Fighter Archetype
- Thread starter SteelStar
- Start date
To be honest trances would be healthier if they were always on passives as it fixes the gear swap paradigm just making strength builds the best users of trances.
Except making a strength trance goes against that solution entirely.
Honestly trances are a problem, the fact insightful damage/tactics (and accuracy for class trances) are dead stats isn't great for gear design (but helps a lot with gearing because needing to fit in 2/3 less stats helps so much).
The snapshotting nature of them means ideally you use them on a stat spike when you've activated clickies and cooldowns etc. Which can reward reactive gameplay but introduces an awkward clunkyness of swapping in your maxed out items in combat (a weapon and artifact with maxed out ability scores from filigrees are far from ideal for actual dps but make a large difference for stats you snapshot) for a few seconds.
Except making a strength trance goes against that solution entirely.
Honestly trances are a problem, the fact insightful damage/tactics (and accuracy for class trances) are dead stats isn't great for gear design (but helps a lot with gearing because needing to fit in 2/3 less stats helps so much).
The snapshotting nature of them means ideally you use them on a stat spike when you've activated clickies and cooldowns etc. Which can reward reactive gameplay but introduces an awkward clunkyness of swapping in your maxed out items in combat (a weapon and artifact with maxed out ability scores from filigrees are far from ideal for actual dps but make a large difference for stats you snapshot) for a few seconds.
I think the only way to truly do away with them would require another itemization/affix squish. Not sure SSG wants to spend the efforts overhauling the loot again to make itemization better represent a world without the trances.
the thing is they make plenty of insightful accuracy/damage items. Just nobody really wants them because they have trances.
I did not know that trances are insight, but doesn't matter, i use insight gear anyway because it is always on in case i forget to use a trance charge
At some point before level 40 I would expect another dc skill/spell and mob saves rebalance. It would not surprise me at all if they nerf all trances to do something like just double your existing insight bonus to atk/dam/tactics.
There should always be something for the number crunchers to chase after but there should be some semblance of game balance too.
There should always be something for the number crunchers to chase after but there should be some semblance of game balance too.
Frantik
Well-known member
- Battlefield Tactician IV now has an immunity-stripping effect in addition to its previous effects. The ability now reads: "+1 to Tactical Feat DCs and Breath Weapon DCs. When you Sunder enemies, it makes them vulnerable to the element of your Draconic Soul for 10 seconds. Additionally, if you successfully Sunder (or Improved Sunder) a target under the effects of Trip (or Improved Trip), that target takes an additional 1d6 damage per Character Level of the Element of your Draconic Soul. This damage scales with 200% Melee or Ranged Power."
EDIT to be more realistic? damage is 1d2+1/1d4+2/1d6+3 in heroics and doubles in epics?
Strike Twice and Shoot Twice: 3AP is VERY expensive for +3 Doubleshot or Doublestrike. It's using the same old (and I thought abandonned) logic of, for example, +2 Doublestrike for 2AP.
- Core 5: Subsiding Fury: Instead of triggering on Barbarian Rage, this triggers on using Second Wind.
The fact that the new archetype will be EITHER STR or CHA based screams where is the CHA Trance available outside of CLR/FvS trees? I always wanted a CHA Trance in Feydark (I'd change the tier 3 Spell Penetration to a multi-selector and add the CHA Trance there). STR is possible to boost other than a trance? Personally speaking, I'd probably opt for (example) a CHA-based 2HF 18/2 build splashing 2 levels of Dark Apostate and grabbing the 1d8 Evil imbue (scaling with 100%+ the tier 2 "+1 extra mbue and ghost chance" for 7AP, add 8AP for War Priest Trance and +2 attack/dmg for Favored Weapons (and more hit/dmg along the way), choose Wood Elf and grab Falchion and Rapiers as Favored Weapons giving you the flexibility of going either 2HF ot TWF routes. Another nice benefit would be to select Strength domain for the +2 STR and restore ability.
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No. The playerbase hates the builder/spender mechanic. Just look at the outcry during the ED revamp where the devs tried to shoehorn that system into the epic strikes. The devs quickly backed away from that one. It's annoying enough dealing with it in the monk class.
Monkey_Archer
Well-known member
The problem with the builder/spender mechanic has less to do with the design and more to do with the laggy environment and DDO's lack of ability queuing. Even in the best of times, hitting ability 1,2,3,4 often results in only 1,2,4 going off, or 1,3 or during raid lag perhaps none of them.... If they put the work in to make abilities queue as seamlessly as basic attacks do then I'd have no issue with builder/spender mechanics.
Jack Jarvis Esquire
Well-known member
Whatever the underlying reasons for it, B-S doesn't work. It should be left well alone at least until those issues are addressed.
Could you please add some MP to core 4.
I realize this isn't the kensai tree, but core 4 seems really lackluster. DL core 3 has lots to get, 5 MP 1 imbue, 3 seeker, very powerful level 6 buffs, Just like kensai core 3 which gives a +1 crit range, thats big.
Lvl 12 core 4 kensai gets power surge and 1% double strike. On a SWF with trance , power surge is + 10 damage and +6 tactics alone. That is really nice. On the other hand, In Dl core 4 you get 1 imbue 1 damage 1 tactic. And a heal that you can't use (says ally, I don't play on lammania).
Core 4 is crazy weak, much weaker than core 3. Why even go to lvl 12. Most splits are gonna stop at 5 DL max 8. If you say "but it increases your aura by 1 and that's big in a raid". Not really and lots of people like myself mainly solo.
I realize this isn't the kensai tree, but core 4 seems really lackluster. DL core 3 has lots to get, 5 MP 1 imbue, 3 seeker, very powerful level 6 buffs, Just like kensai core 3 which gives a +1 crit range, thats big.
Lvl 12 core 4 kensai gets power surge and 1% double strike. On a SWF with trance , power surge is + 10 damage and +6 tactics alone. That is really nice. On the other hand, In Dl core 4 you get 1 imbue 1 damage 1 tactic. And a heal that you can't use (says ally, I don't play on lammania).
Core 4 is crazy weak, much weaker than core 3. Why even go to lvl 12. Most splits are gonna stop at 5 DL max 8. If you say "but it increases your aura by 1 and that's big in a raid". Not really and lots of people like myself mainly solo.
I think there is merit to having a checklist of things you need to balance around by making tradeoffs in order to maximize the power of your build and I don't think trances are the worst offender here.
That being said, trances might be in the "too strong" column where you must have [a form] of trance in any build that hits stuff and they may kinda invalidate a form of stat in gearing. It does take away choice and leaves less room for more interesting mechanics in trees/builds if they all need to fit in a trance in some shape or form and if they completely invalidate a form of statting in gearing. Then again, I already find the puzzle to cover everything quite hard when I don't have access to most interesting augments and gear pieces nor the newest expansions where the flexibility was increased to a rather frightening degree.
But before you go asking for removal of trances, please offer actually interesting alternatives. Trances are valuable when it comes to all the interesting different splits existing in the game. What class choice do you end up going for and what do you pay in order to get them? If we just removed trances, would pures be the play for how many classes? Can you make a convincing case for what the world looks like after removing trances? If they just removed them straight up and didn't replace the power vacuum somehow I'd be rather miffed.
They may make gearing "too easy" for some but it also bridges the gap for newer players like me. I really enjoy the ease that the cleric trance offers me in order to perform with what might otherwise be lackluster gear. Sure, if they didn't exist I wouldn't need to care about cha/wis (in future str), and I'd have to care more about insight. I don't think the tradeoff here is necessarily an improvement and after doing some (admittedly brief) searching for gear setups before writing this post I don't think existing gear in the game supports removal of trances very well either.
Any chance we could get an option for all three of these to also scale at 75% spellpower?
I really want to see Dragon Lord have interplay with Dragonborn or Draconic Incarnation, but with pure melee/ranged power scaling it does somewhat curtain going full dragon in the year of the dragon.
- Dragon's Roar can now properly be used while Raging. and
- from the Draconic tree Draconic Rage: You may now cast spells while Raging.
A Sorc/Barb/fvs melee DragonBorn Eldritch Knight, totally theme based of course. The barb levels would be a waste as the rage only adds Str and Con and not Cha, but hey we only play theme-based builds in this game.
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Well if they are locking out Kensai, I think the trade off is you dont get Kensai i.e. the full melee power Kensai had with DL. I havnt had time to look over the impact this has on Kensai until tonight as the Barbarian / Rage nerf took me by surprise and has dominated my thinking until now.
Further, Steel-Stars comment "We haven't changed a lot with Preview 2" implied little changes however, looking over the proposed changes and the nature, scale and complexity of some of the changes I guess my definition of "alot" means something very different and his omission of the nature, scale and complexity, left me under-prepared for what was published with pass 2. The devil IS in the detail, read very carefully and don't believe what the tool tip tells you.
So, to introduce the next issue I want to first clarify something.
For reference:
Acolyte of the Skin - Looses Enlightened Spirit enhancements and gains Acolyte of the Skin enhancements (1 for 1)
Blightcaster - Looses Nature's Protector enhancements and gains Blightcaster enhancements (1 for 1)
Dark Apostate - Looses Radiant Servant enhancements and gains Dark Apostate enhancements (1 for 1)
Dark Hunter - Looses Arcane Archer enhancements and gains Dark Hunter enhancements (1 for 1)
Sacred Fist - Looses Knight of the Chalice enhancements and Vanguard enhancements and gains Sacred Fist enhancements and Radiant Servant enhancements (2 for 2)
Stormsinger - Looses Swashbuckler enhancements and gains Stormsinger enhancements (1 for 1).
The trend here with all other Archtypes is a tradeoff and balancing with the intention the Archtype has a pre-determined playstyle.
Dragon Lord - Looses Kensei enhancements and Vanguard enhancements and gains Dragon Lord enhancements and Ravager enhancements (2 for 2)
I haven't played on Lamm but can anyone confirm that DL is getting 2 enhancement tree's (separate trees) or are they getting 1 enhancement line combining the cherry-picked good stuff from Ravager and the new stuff the devs are introducing?
The difference here has a significant effect on the AP spend and depending on the answer would change my position. At first look, I was thinking Fighters were getting nerfed with loosing both Kensai and Vanguard and having to spend AP's in two separate trees. However, if they are getting a blended single enhancement tree this might change my thinking. The economy of AP spend in a blended tree would be a buff for fighters when compared with the structures of previous Archtypes that did not get blended trees. The result would mean the AP spend won't be diluted into two DL trees and this will free up AP's for multi-class and/or Universal trees. The current META is taking the Vistani capstone for Fighters, so it would very powerful and very sneaky, if Fighters had enough AP's to still go capstone in Vistani, to double dip the doublestrike and attack speed and they get the much coveted +200% scaling imbue, arguably one of the most influential abilities that show up in META builds. I am fairly certain they are not but i want to double check this before i go further with my analysis with the loss of Kensai.
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Coffey
Well-known member
Dragon Lord archtype is getting two enhancement trees: DL tree and a modified Ravager tree. I have seen them on Lam.
DL 25 MP Aura 4 MP
Ravager 10 MP
Kensei 40 MP with a 20 MP Burst with a very high up time.