Variant Iconics

[Aelonwy]

I think the initial idea behind Iconics was a good one but often it is implemented in a corrupted, unappealing fashion. We need Variant Iconics that meet the classical definition of the word "Iconic."

To that end I suggest creating:

Jorasco Halfling Cleric Iconic
Faerun Drow of Eilistrae Bard Iconic
Talenta Halfling Barbarian Iconic
Gnome Artificier Iconic
Dwarven Barbarian Battlerager Iconic
Faerun Dwarven Defender Fighter Iconic
Aasimar Paladin Iconic
Halforc Druid Gatekeeper Apprentice Iconic
Dragonborn Sorcerer Iconic
Tiefling Warlock Iconic
Vulkoorim Drow Ranger Iconic

I admit I'm not sure what is most iconic to Warforged, or Half-elf, or what is absolute most Iconic for rogue but the above are all very iconic to their setting and would actually be race/class combos people desire to play. These would encourage sales and be meaningful characters within the lore of the worlds in which we play.

PSA: Just in case any are still unaware... Suggestion threads have a voting mechanism to the far right of the initial post. Likes and comments are welcome but if you like the idea please upvote there---------------------------->

 

[Memnir]

I'd vote a suitable Iconic for Warforged would be Fighter. They were litterally manufactured for war - so thematically it works.
Half-Elf, would be a good race for Rogue - and introduce the Dragonmark of Detection along side/exclusive to them.

 

[Aelonwy]

That is brilliant, I'd love to see more of the Houses demonstrated in the game. I don't know how they would translate the SLAs of the Mark of Detection, they seem like Divination type magic of which we understandably have very little in DDO.

 

[Lazuli]

PSA: Just in case any are still unaware... Suggestion threads have a voting mechanism to the far right of the initial post. Likes and comments are welcome but if you like the idea please upvote there---------------------------->

I was unaware, thanks. It is not something easily noticeable.

I agree with your proposal. More "authentically" iconics would really be desirable.

Although what I would have liked is that there was more flexibility when choosing the class (instead of having the first level blocked) and that the specialization was given by the iconic tree. For example, the Bladeforged, according to the official background, come in three varieties: martial, infiltrator, spellcaster. If there were three bladeforged "archetypes" with those three trees oriented towards warforged, lord of blades, and those three varieties, there would be no need to restrict the first class level (people would naturally gravitate towards their class tree).

Similarly, concepts like the PDK are professions that should not restrict race. The logical thing here would be to block the class but allow any race that can be a subject of Cormyr. The same thing happens with the morninglord, who is a cleric dedicated to a deity but who can be of any race (a human is more normal than an elf, it must be said, and an aasimar is much more thematic, even though it is a less abundant race xd)

But anyway, I know that this will never see the light, among other things because of the +1 heart sales. So your proposal seems the most feasible to me.

I like your proposals, and add some more:

- Since they have made a sun elf, let them make a sun elf arcane as the background of this race dictates.

- Since we have an elven morninglord, let them create an aasimar cleric. Or two, one am aasimar cleric and the other an aasimar paladin.

- Shadar-kai assassin is very cool, but the shadar-kai race is capable of much more. How about a Shar cleric? A shadow-themed wizard or sorcerer, or even a warlock?

- Bladeforged artifice would be very popular, and is consistent with the official background.

 

[Onyxia2016]

Since DDO took the concept of Iconics and flipped it on its head they definitely need to expand on what they started.

For those that are unaware Iconics where named characters that were featured in player handbooks with accompanying art work and back story.
There stats, skills, feats etc. were predefined. They could be played as a character but within there prebuilt roll. Once the option to start them over at level 1 or use a heart to remove the base class they essentially became a custom race with their own racial tree.

In fact Iconic of old when not special races. There were just legends/movie stars of their day from the fame they gathered through their deeds.

Now some liberties had to be taken in order to work them into the DDO game design but many of the current race/class combinations are just wrong or at least highly unlikely.

All the proposals listed so far have some lore to back them up instead of picking a race/class to smash together which it looks like was done with the current line up in the game.

 

[FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted]

considering its expensive to make a race, and instead of races we could get adventure packs, not so sure this is a good idea. sev said on his last stream that they would make more races if they weren't so insanely expensive, and id rather have an expansion with a +3 prr augment in the raid than a race because 3 prr > an awesome new thing to play

 

[Lazuli]

A race from scratch may be expensive to make, but many of these concepts recycle material, so not everything would be made from scratch and costs would be reduced.

 

[Aelonwy]

A race from scratch may be expensive to make, but many of these concepts recycle material, so not everything would be made from scratch and costs would be reduced.

Exactly! Brand new races require building the race, animating it, making old as well as new gear fit its frame, potentially making new textures and hairstyles for it. New racial tree, possibly a couple racial feats. That's a lot of work from scratch. These Variant Iconics would reuse existing races so at most they might get additional color options or hairstyles on the creation screen and a unique Racial tree but perhaps not from scratch. After all, there wouldn't have to be so many changes to the Halfling Racial tree to make one specifically born to House Jorasco, nor a Dragonborn to Sorcerer. Granted a few will call for new Deity Feats such as Eilistrae, and a Dwarven Deity like Gorm Gulthyn or Clanggedin.

And Lazuli I do like the idea of a Sunelf Wizard Iconic because that is hella more Iconic to that race than a cleric of a NON_ELVEN deity. That one just tops the chart for nonsensical adaptation. Its so absurd I have trouble believing WotC signed off on it. Like no one questioned it? Was anyone even paying attention?

For the most part I feel the combinations I have selected not only fit into the lore of their respective worlds but are also desirable combos of race and class that people would want to play and more importantly, from the devs perspective, character bases that people might want to purchase.

 

[TrinityTurtle]

I'd like to see the six remaining classes that don't have iconics at all get them first. (Off the top of my head - druid, warlock, alchemist, artificer, sorcorer, and favored soul). It's a good way for newer players to catch up a bit on the past life grind a bit faster.

 

[Lorrgar]

Great idea! I voted. Also, I think there should be a way to create an "Iconic" race but not of the currently assigned level one class. I put that in a VIP suggestion thread just today.

 

[Aelonwy]

I'd like to see the six remaining classes that don't have iconics at all get them first. (Off the top of my head - druid, warlock, alchemist, artificer, sorcorer, and favored soul). It's a good way for newer players to catch up a bit on the past life grind a bit faster.

I think 3 of them are excluded because they are still considered Premium classes Alchemist, Artificier, and Favored Soul? right? Maybe they can overcome that hurdle by including the purchase of the base class with the Iconic? But certainly the other three should get an Iconic first. Preferably one that makes sense to our worlds.

 

[vryxnr]

I very much agree that Iconics should be "Iconic" and not just some combination not seen yet (which is kinda the opposite of iconic imo.. more like "uniques" instead)

I also agree with the above suggested combinations that are iconic.

 

[TrinityTurtle]

I think 3 of them are excluded because they are still considered Premium classes Alchemist, Artificier, and Favored Soul? right? Maybe they can overcome that hurdle by including the purchase of the base class with the Iconic? But certainly the other three should get an Iconic first. Preferably one that makes sense to our worlds.

I dunno, we have to buy the iconics anyway. LOL Why not just add them into a bundle like you say and be done with it to make the player base happy. Although favored soul shouldn't count, you can unlock it in game, no purchase would be required if you wanted it. I'm obviously not a dev and it's just my opionion, but game balance to give people a path to catching up for newer players (and we do still get them from time to time) would trump not just making a bundle for artificer and alchemist of buying the class/iconic together.

 

[Lazuli]

And Lazuli I do like the idea of a Sunelf Wizard Iconic because that is hella more Iconic to that race than a cleric of a NON_ELVEN deity. That one just tops the chart for nonsensical adaptation. Its so absurd I have trouble believing WotC signed off on it. Like no one questioned it? Was anyone even paying attention?

I, along with other people, objected strongly against this combination, because this elven morninglord was anything but iconic (and mechanically not good). But most people were so excited to be able to start at level 15, that the complaints were lost. Although at least we got racial traits to the morninlord (it didn't have any elvish racial traits when they took it out). Shadar-kai didn't either, but that one took more time to get racial traits.

I would like the cosmetics of these first iconics to be bta, it is ridiculous that they are btc at this point...

 

[voenixa121]

I don't know. In my mind Iconics should be interesting, not bland clichés. Something like tiefling warlock or aasimar paladin is extremely boring. I actually think the current iconics are pretty much perfect, except for the morninglor, which isn't quite a right fit. I think someone had the association sun elf = sun god.
They could just put something in the store that you start a character at level 15 if that's what people desire. (which I guess is just an ottos box?)

 

[Onyxia2016]

I don't know. In my mind Iconics should be interesting, not bland clichés. Something like tiefling warlock or aasimar paladin is extremely boring. I actually think the current iconics are pretty much perfect, except for the morninglor, which isn't quite a right fit. I think someone had the association sun elf = sun god.
They could just put something in the store that you start a character at level 15 if that's what people desire. (which I guess is just an ottos box?)

I agree that Iconics should not be boring but by their very nature are clichés.
They are the quintessential fighter, wizard, paladin, etc... for their era. In short they are famous.

The iconic characters in Dungeons & Dragons are a series of characters developed for the 3rd edition of the Dungeons & Dragons role-playing game used as recurring characters in illustrations and text explanations to illustrate archetypal D&D race and class combinations. In the case of a few classes, there is more than one iconic character, allowing for more varied iconic parties. - D&D Wikipedia

There are lots of Ionics available throughout the lore but SSG's licensing may not allow them to copy them exactly but they could be used as a basic guide.

 

[Aelonwy]

I dunno, we have to buy the iconics anyway. LOL Why not just add them into a bundle like you say and be done with it to make the player base happy. Although favored soul shouldn't count, you can unlock it in game, no purchase would be required if you wanted it. I'm obviously not a dev and it's just my opionion, but game balance to give people a path to catching up for newer players (and we do still get them from time to time) would trump not just making a bundle for artificer and alchemist of buying the class/iconic together.

We have asked for them to do this in the past. Idk why they chose the current policy of only FtP classes being allowed to become Iconics. Maybe they could make 2 versions? One that is the Iconic only if you already own the premium race and a slightly more expensive version that gives you both?

Edit for mistake noted later by PurpleSerpent.

 

[Archer hater]

They did say at one time that they did not want to make something where you had to buy both the class and iconic

 

[Archer hater]

We have asked for them to do this in the past. Idk why they chose the current policy of only FtP races being allowed to become Iconics. Maybe they could make 2 versions? One that is the Iconic only if you already own the premium race and a slightly more expensive version that gives you both?

This kind of goes with what I was saying above that they felt it would feel like a trap if somebody thought you could just buy the iconic and then use the class but it is still locked because you didn't unlock the class

 

[PurpleSerpent]

We have asked for them to do this in the past. Idk why they chose the current policy of only FtP races being allowed to become Iconics. Maybe they could make 2 versions? One that is the Iconic only if you already own the premium race and a slightly more expensive version that gives you both?

Wasn't the latest Iconic for Tabaxi? In fact, pretty much all of the Iconics were for pay-to-play races, it's just that a few years ago they made a number of those races free-to-play.

(As far as I'm aware there's been no explicit dev statement that Iconics can only exist for free classes either - they just haven't made a set for all of the existing free ones yet. Same goes for Archetypes.)